I was doing an Operation Lifesaver presentation today for new ATV operators, and heard about a cache that is "right in the middle of a railroad track." After reading one thread on this forum about crossing a track/walking on railroad property, I thought I should chime in with some information. I've been a volunteer presenter with Maine Operation Lifesaver for several years now, and have worked as a railroad employee for a little longer than that. Operation Lifesaver has chapters in every state except Hawaii. Canada and other countries also have OL organizations. OL works with railroads, government agencies, and other interested parties to help prevent highway/rail crossing collisions. Also of great concern to us is the fact that around 500 people are killed each year while trespassing on railroad property. Another 200+ were injured each year during 2003, 2004, and 2005. The Federal Railroad Administration's Office of Safety Analysis maintains extensive records, and a review of their Website shows that the casualties are not just kids: the 21-25 age group and the 41-45 age group had the most deaths and injuries (306 each) for that three-year period.
One of the first things a new railroad employee is taught is to expect a train on any track, at any time, in any direction. Another important lesson is that trains can overhang the track by three feet, and broken strapping (metal bands) or possibly a shifted load can "reach out and touch someone" in a very unpleasant way at an even greater distance.
The new Continuous Welded Rail (CWR, or "ribbon rail") being used more and more has eliminated the "clickety-clack" of train wheels passing over joints in the rail. A heavy freight train or a fast passenger train can take a mile to come to a full stop. The train can't steer around you, and you may not have a safe place to go to in order to get out of its path. The best way to avoid a sudden unpleasant encounter with a train is to just "don't go there" where you could be in harm's way.
The discussion in the other thread included some questions about fines for trespassing. I'll just refer you to MRSA Title 23, §7007. http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/23/title23sec7007.html
(Remember, sometimes the penalty for trespassing on railroad property is death.)
I know someone's saying, "What about this old track that they don't use anymore?" Are you sure it's not being used? The "Lewiston Lower" is being rebuilt right now, for eventual resumption of service. Maine ATV and snowmobile regulations say a person "may operate within the right-of-way of a portion of railroad line that has been officially abandoned under the authority of the Interstate Commerce Commission." I don't know how you could be certain of an abandonment enough to maybe stake your life on it, especially since there's no longer an Interstate Commerce Commission.
Railroad trespassing is the leading cause of rail-related deaths in the U.S.
Enjoy geocaching and other outdoor activities, but please, "Stay Off! Stay Away! Stay Alive!"
Thanks.

--
Doug Clark

One of my caches is close to a railroad line that was not being used in previous years, but it now appears as though it will be doing some excursion trips this year. Even before this thread appeared I was planning on moving it due to this new development . . . although personally it wouldn't break my heart if the train company just folded up and sold the line to the State of Maine -- I suspect a multi-purpose rail trail would get a heckuva lot more use than it will as a train line for railroad buffs.

New caches are approved before they can be made public and it is geocaching.com's policy not to allow caches on RR property.

I have yet to hear about any Maine cache that is in the middle of any tracks with the exception of one or two near old narrow-guage tracks. Some caches are near active tracks, however. I have one within 15 feet or so of active tracks, but it is perfectly safe and legal.

However, an occasional cache will make it through the approval process. If you could refer us to the cache name, ID, or general location, it can be checked on and, if neccessary, moved or archived.

I think that one cache that might need to be reconsidered is the Burnham Junction (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4c958da0-23be-44ba-8d15-79179793197e) cache.

This involves an interesting walk across a railroad trestle - the one where Hiram dropped his GPSr. :p :p

I read recently that excursion train service between Unity and Burnham (http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/060511railroad.shtml) will start on Father's Day. And the trains will undoubtedly go across this trestle.

I think that one cache that might need to be reconsidered is the Burnham Junction (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=4c958da0-23be-44ba-8d15-79179793197e) cache.

This involves an interesting walk across a railroad trestle - the one Hiram dropped in GPSr off of. :p :p

I read recently that excursion train service between Unity and Burnham (http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/news/state/060511railroad.shtml) will start on Father's Day. And the trains will undoubtedly go across this trestle.

Rather than archive this cache maybe all that needs to be done is re-direct cachers from another direction. It can be approached from the Troy Road near the Burnham Elementary School, however, you'd still have to cross over the tracks but it would be better than getting stuck on the trestle. Another idea would be to place this cache near the cache owners store near Rt. 100 to make it more accessible and still offer folks a good view of the trestle. Just an idea..........

Rather than archive this cache maybe all that needs to be done is re-direct cachers from another direction. It can be approached from the Troy Road near the Burnham Elementary School, however, you'd still have to cross over the tracks but it would be better than getting stuck on the trestle. Another idea would be to place this cache near the cache owners store near Rt. 100 to make it more accessible and still offer folks a good view of the trestle. Just an idea..........

Well, maybe they could just make it a "difficulty 5" on days the train is due?

;) ;)

New caches are approved before they can be made public and it is geocaching.com's policy not to allow caches on RR property.I figured there was probably a general policy like that, but maybe something had slipped through, or perhaps a formerly inactive railroad line was being used once again.


However, an occasional cache will make it through the approval process. If you could refer us to the cache name, ID, or general location, it can be checked on and, if neccessary, moved or archived.I thought it was somewhere in the Brunswick area, and directed visitors to an old trolley grade. I looked at some topo maps on the UNH site last night, and didn't see a trolley line on any of them in the Brunswick area. (Maybe it's actually an old spur off of the rail line.)
The person who mentioned it to me hadn't yet logged his find of it, but said he'd point out to somebody that it might want relocating. I think he also said that the particular area is only accessible via the track. :eek:

Some days, having minimal information is worse than having none at all, right? :D

--
Doug C.

The first cache that came to mind when you mentioned Brunswick and trolley was Trolly Line (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=40855) (GC9F97) by Kristomeg (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=81605) (2/4). This cache can be accessed without walking on the active RR lines. Some people have not, myself included. But I walked clear of the tracks and when I came to what looked like too dangerous a spot, I opted to bushwhack instead. The cache is nowhere near the active tracks, but are not too far from the old trolley bed.

Other Maine caches which mention trolly or trolley:
The Jolly Trolley (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=71040) (GCG5PH) by Montana East (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=123431) (1.5/2)
Trestle Trove (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=197350) (GCMD52) by Two Reprobates (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=276886) (2/2)

And Maine caches which mention tracks within 25 miles of Brunswick:
Rubiks Revenge (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=286594) (GCQD0X) by robt (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=174297) (4/2)
Wildes Road Wildlife management area (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=98258) (GCH31H) by keagriver (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=149458) (2/2)
Take a walk on the wild side..... (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=368887) (GCV5MG) by Team Teebow (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=107666) (2.5/2.5)
I've Been Caching on the Rail Road (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=366144) (GCV2T1) by MaineRebel and GreenGoddess (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=129635) (3/3)
Railroad Ramble (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=110106) (GCHFBQ) by IntotheWoods (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=77174) (2/3)
Downtown L/A III - Railroad Park (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=302406) (GCQYEZ) by Gob-ler (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=246350) (5/1)
Benedict's Campground (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=82426) (GCGHHV) by T-Fam (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=125539) (2/3)

Jolly Trolly, Trestle Trove and Downtown L/A have not had tracks for a very long time.

Rubik's Revenge requires the cacher to cross the tracks, if this is not safe, let either me or RobT know and we'll address the issue.

Jolly Trolly, Trestle Trove and Downtown L/A have not had tracks for a very long time.

Rubik's Revenge requires the cacher to cross the tracks, if this is not safe, let either me or RobT know and we'll address the issue.

Hmm, The trail that I placed the cache off of does cross an active RR track. If it is an issue please let me know so I can pull the cache if needed.

RobT

With so many new caches being placed, we are always looking for out of the way places. Thanks for the IMPORTANT info regarding railways. This will help us to be more responsible putting out caches.

The first cache that came to mind when you mentioned Brunswick and trolley was Trolly Line (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=40855) (GC9F97) by Kristomeg (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=81605) (2/4). This cache can be accessed without walking on the active RR lines. Some people have not, myself included. But I walked clear of the tracks and when I came to what looked like too dangerous a spot, I opted to bushwhack instead. The cache is nowhere near the active tracks, but are not too far from the old trolley bed.Okay, that's in Bath. It looks like it might be off the right-of-way, but I'm still trying to find out what the state law defines the RoW as. I saw something on the Revisor of Statutes site or another state source that said 100' either side of a rail, but that might be for fire control purposes.


Other Maine caches which mention trolly or trolley:
The Jolly Trolley (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=71040) (GCG5PH) by Montana East (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=123431) (1.5/2)Yep. somebody'd really have to work at it to wander on the track for that one. ;)

Trestle Trove (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=197350) (GCMD52) by Two Reprobates (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=276886) (2/2)Likewise. Actually, more so. ;)

{Snipped others from reply, but will scope them out later.)
I'm finding out from a contact at DOT if the one around Lisbon is on the stretch that's actually "abandoned." I just want to be 100% sure it's not on the part that's presently being rebuilt for freight traffic.
There's another up Waldo County way that directs seekers to an old trestle. I'm also finding out if that one is or isn't "abandoned." I have a feeling it's been "disused," but is going be active again very soon.
Thanks very much for the input.

Hmm, The trail that I placed the cache off of does cross an active RR track. If it is an issue please let me know so I can pull the cache if needed. Yep, unfortunately many well-used paths and trails go where they ought not to go. I saw it a lot last year while protecting contractor personnel against rail traffic. On a couple of occasions, I saw the entire high school cross-country team use the tracks as a "short cut," and I don't mean just going across at other than a public crossing. A call to the school's athletic director put a stop to it. Around that same time, I had to ask the principal of the nearby elementary school to remind all the students what the Operation Lifesaver people had talked to them about just a couple of years before. (Okay, there must've been some new kids that hadn't "gotten the word" yet.)
I'm so rabid about this stuff because of the fatality a few weeks ago up in Warren. There were three "adults" with the boy who was killed, and they should've known better. The boy attended school in a town with no rail line, so he wasn't among the many that we've given presentations to in the past few years. The foursome probably walked past at least one "No Trespassing" sign.
So yeah, much as I wouldn't want anyone trying to access that one from U.S. 1, the Rockland Branch will have to be "off limits."
Thanks very much.

--
Doug C.

Having been a former railroad worker for many years I think that the ROW on mainline tracks has been 35 ft from the center of the track in both directions, but I could be wrong.

As far as this one is concerned ,Trolly Line (GC9F97) by Kristomeg (2/4). I don't know how you can get to the cache without first walking down the active tracks but maybe we came in from a different direction.

And Maine caches which mention tracks within 25 miles of Brunswick:
Rubiks Revenge (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=286594) (GCQD0X) by robt (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=174297) (4/2) Addressed above.


Wildes Road Wildlife management area (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=98258) (GCH31H) by keagriver (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=149458) (2/2)
Take a walk on the wild side..... (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=368887) (GCV5MG) by Team Teebow (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=107666) (2.5/2.5)These two are on the "Lower Road," which is presently inactive but not abandoned. It would probably be Maine Eastern's route for handling traffic in Augusta some day.


I've Been Caching on the Rail Road (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=366144) (GCV2T1) by MaineRebel and GreenGoddess (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=129635) (3/3)I think this one's on the "Lewiston Industrial," which is pretty much "dead." However the "Lewiston Lower," going back towards Pejepscot, is being rebuilt. (And use of any area by ATV riders is not a real reliable indication that it's safe or legal to go there.)


Railroad Ramble (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=110106) (GCHFBQ) by IntotheWoods (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=77174) (2/3)The Rockland Branch again. We've had some problems with a few people going onto bridges in the area, but I know geocachers are smarter than that. :cool: Incidentally, it was originally the Maine Central Railroad. Maine Eastern RR is now the third operator of the line since the state bought it.


Downtown L/A III - Railroad Park (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=302406) (GCQYEZ) by Gob-ler (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=246350) (5/1)Another one where, if you got hit by a train there, you were obviously working too hard at doing so. :D


Benedict's Campground (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=82426) (GCGHHV) by T-Fam (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=125539) (2/3)Lower Road again. My only beef with this one is that it says "The old railroad between Hallowell and Gardiner is being converted into a bike/walking trail." As I understand it, a trail is being/has been co-located with the track. (Something that many railroaders and OL people are not wild about, familiar as we are with the ability of some people to put themselves into harm's way. That is the reason for the "$500 fine" signs along that line, which incidentally were put inside the 4-foot danger zone where nothing/nobody should stand when a train is passing. :rolleyes: ) The line is not "abandoned" or in any way being made into strictly a trail. If MDOT or another state agency has provided a place to walk alongside the track, then that's one thing. Otherwise, all the laws and safety rules apply.
Okay, rant over. :cool:

Are you saying that trails cannot cross railroad tracks?

There's another up Waldo County way that directs seekers to an old trestle. I'm also finding out if that one is or isn't "abandoned." I have a feeling it's been "disused," but is going be active again very soon.

This was mentioned already by WhereRWe in an earlier post . . . the railroad "line" was not in use last year and in previous years ran sporadically as it was a tourist train. This year a non-profit group of railroad buffs are hoping to get it up and running again as a tourist train. As a result (as I've mentioned earlier) I'll be moving one of my caches just a few feet so folks won't have to cross the tracks since I suspect there won't be many runs (but all it takes is one person to trip and fall on that one time when the train is barreling down the track at a blistering 6 mph :) ).

Bridge 5-81 is next to a track. It has a sign telling you to stay off the track. I dont live in Presque Isle any more and couldnt say if the track gets used but I certainly felt uncomfortable searching for a cache here. They have a walk way about two feet of the rail but just the same. Some people dont think about some of the things stated in the posts before mine.

Are you saying that trails cannot cross railroad tracks?While I can't presently quote chapter and section from state law, a road/private drive/trail/path/whatever should really only cross a track "at a place provided for that purpose." There are numerous private crossings along active tracks, which have been established by an agreement between the railroad and the person who needed access to the property on the "other side" of the track. Then the train crews know that they're approaching a place where someone might be expected to cross, and they sound the horn, etc. Likewise with public crossings, with required signage and maybe additional warning devices. While too many people don't even slow down when approaching a crossing in their car (those round 'X' signs are the ones referred to here: http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/29-a/title29-asec2076.html), the engineer is aware that someone may be trying to cross.
Since trains now tend to run quieter than before (and sometimes faster than before), there may be little or no warning of a train's approach. Sounding the horn continuously (or even at random intervals) is impractical for many reasons. Having a spiderweb of "casual" trails and footpaths from which an unsuspecting person could suddenly step onto the track is a railroader's nightmare.
Somewhere in here, I should include this disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (nor do I portray one on TV :D ). But I think it all comes back to the old slogan "Let's not meet by accident."

While I can't presently quote chapter and section from state law, a road/private drive/trail/path/whatever should really only cross a track "at a place provided for that purpose." There are numerous private crossings along active tracks, which have been established by an agreement between the railroad and the person who needed access to the property on the "other side" of the track. Then the train crews know that they're approaching a place where someone might be expected to cross, and they sound the horn, etc. Likewise with public crossings, with required signage and maybe additional warning devices. While too many people don't even slow down when approaching a crossing in their car (those round 'X' signs are the ones referred to here: http://janus.state.me.us/legis/statutes/29-a/title29-asec2076.html), the engineer is aware that someone may be trying to cross.
Since trains now tend to run quieter than before (and sometimes faster than before), there may be little or no warning of a train's approach. Sounding the horn continuously (or even at random intervals) is impractical for many reasons. Having a spiderweb of "casual" trails and footpaths from which an unsuspecting person could suddenly step onto the track is a railroader's nightmare.
Somewhere in here, I should include this disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (nor do I portray one on TV :D ). But I think it all comes back to the old slogan "Let's not meet by accident."



The above link pertains to motor vehicle law. Is there specific laws regarding pedestrian crossing and usage??? I would think a cacher on foot would hear even a very quiet train at a reasonable distance to get out of the way.

...
Somewhere in here, I should include this disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (nor do I portray one on TV :D ). But I think it all comes back to the old slogan "Let's not meet by accident."

Certainly we should obey the law, but we should also try to rally behind the spirit of the law. I had not considered crossing the tracks as being overly dangerous; perhaps no more dangerous than getting to the tracks by driving or walking. Still, we should probably consider this when placing a cache since the casual hiker may not realize the danger involved.

Thanks for clearifying.

The above link pertains to motor vehicle law.Um, yeah, it was meant as an illustration of something that many people would say they didn't know (in spite of having passed a licensing exam), or that people just tend to ignore. All those who wish to disregard that part of my post may do so. ;)

Is there specific laws regarding pedestrian crossing and usage???I've already posted the link to this in this thread, but here's a synopsis: 1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance. (MRSA Title 23, §7007. "Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle") If I was a masochist, I'd go searching the Revisor of Statutes site to see what the law says about where one may or may not cross a track, but I think I've elevated my blood pressure enough for one day. :p
So in spite of that, in spite of the "NO TRESPASSING" signs stenciled on the masts of the crossing signals that they just walked past, I wish I had a dollar for everyone who said to me, "Oh, I didn't know it was against the law for me to walk on the tracks." And some of those people had to peel off their headphones so they could hear what I was telling them. I had to throw a chunk of ballast where they'd see it fall before they caught on that I was catching up to them. :rolleyes:

I would think a cacher on foot would hear even a very quiet train at a reasonable distance to get out of the way.I'm sure that's what the people involved in the fatality in Warren a few weeks ago thought, too. The fisherman in Belgrade who was killed a couple of years ago probably also had similar misconceptions about the danger and the legality of going onto railroad property at "other than a place designated for that purpose."
So my interpretation would be, regardless of what you can or can't hear (Five Man Electrical Band mode), "you ain't supposed to beee heeeeere."

Um, yeah, it was meant as an illustration of something that many people would say they didn't know (in spite of having passed a licensing exam), or that people just tend to ignore. All those who wish to disregard that part of my post may do so. ;)
I've already posted the link to this in this thread, but here's a synopsis: 1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance. (MRSA Title 23, §7007. "Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle") If I was a masochist, I'd go searching the Revisor of Statutes site to see what the law says about where one may or may not cross a track, but I think I've elevated my blood pressure enough for one day. :p
So in spite of that, in spite of the "NO TRESPASSING" signs stenciled on the masts of the crossing signals that they just walked past, I wish I had a dollar for everyone who said to me, "Oh, I didn't know it was against the law for me to walk on the tracks." And some of those people had to peel off their headphones so they could hear what I was telling them. I had to throw a chunk of ballast where they'd see it fall before they caught on that I was catching up to them. :rolleyes:
I'm sure that's what the people involved in the fatality in Warren a few weeks ago thought, too. The fisherman in Belgrade who was killed a couple of years ago probably also had similar misconceptions about the danger and the legality of going onto railroad property at "other than a place designated for that purpose."
So my interpretation would be, regardless of what you can or can't hear (Five Man Electrical Band mode), "you ain't supposed to beee heeeeere."


Calm down!;) You missed the point of my post. Without you going into a tirade, there is law and therefore placing caches on or near railroad property is a criminal infraction. That is the one thing to take away from this thread. Like Tat stated, we all want to keep within the "spirit of the law" to protect cachers and non-cachers alike. And also keeping with Tats post I want to thank you for clarifying these issues.

You want to talk about stupid actions resulting in morbidity or mortality, feel free to stop into the fire station in Augusta, sit down have a coffee and I'll share over 16 years of my personal experiences on the rescue and fireground.

This was mentioned already by WhereRWe in an earlier post . . . the railroad "line" was not in use last year and in previous years ran sporadically as it was a tourist train. This year a non-profit group of railroad buffs are hoping to get it up and running again as a tourist train. As a result (as I've mentioned earlier) I'll be moving one of my caches just a few feet so folks won't have to cross the tracks since I suspect there won't be many runs (but all it takes is one person to trip and fall on that one time when the train is barreling down the track at a blistering 6 mph :) ).Actually, all of yours I've seen so far didn't look to be in "bad spots," but the one I was concerned about specifically mentions crossing a trestle. I contacted the cacher, and they replied this morning that they'd be taking it down before June. Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common." :(
And 6 MPH or 60 MPH, train speed isn't mentioned in 23MRSA7007. ("Kids, don't try that argument in court." :p )

Calm down!;) You missed the point of my post. Without you going into a tyraid, there is law and therefore placing caches on or near railroad property is a criminal infraction. That is the one thing to take away from this thread. Like Tat stated, we all want to keep within the "spirit of the law" to protect cachers and non-cachers alike. And also keeping with Tats post I want to thank you for clarifying these issues.My apologies if I was getting pedantic about this. I just get cranky if I think someone's starting to try the "oh, but I can always hear the train coming and sprint seventy feet to get myself off the bridge before I get run over" argument or something similar.
In the spirit of the "measure twice, cut once" rule, I'll try to "read twice, post once" so I don't leap on somebody who's actually agreeing with me. (That's one thing about the 'Net: too much of the "now what did he or she mean by that?" ;) )


You want to talk about stupid actions resulting in morbidity or mortality, feel free to stop into the fire station in Augusta, sit down have a coffee and I'll share over 16 years of my personal experiences on the rescue and fireground.The fire station? Y'mean they closed up all but one? What were those councilors thinkin'? :p
And I can top that: I first went into EMS around 1969, so long ago everyone probably thought EMS meant "electromagnetic stuff" or something. I haven't been active in the fire service for several years now, but it probably wouldn't surprise you to know I was an NFA Health & Safety Officer and Incident Safety Officer. To guys like me, everything looks like a hazard! :D

Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common."

Actually, at the time that cache was placed, the track was INACTIVE. There are MANY tracks in Maine that have not been used in years. The caution urged by the cache owner was the same as would be posted for any bridge - snomobile, walking, etc. I'd be concerned about taking kids across the Wire Bridge in New Portland, and I'd caution anyone crossing that. :p :p

(Note: subject cache was was disabled today)

Relax. Maine cachers aren't stupid. Well, most of us aren't...

Actually, all of yours I've seen so far didn't look to be in "bad spots," but the one I was concerned about specifically mentions crossing a trestle. I contacted the cacher, and they replied this morning that they'd be taking it down before June. Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common." :(
And 6 MPH or 60 MPH, train speed isn't mentioned in 23MRSA7007. ("Kids, don't try that argument in court." :p )

Not to quibble . . . but one of my caches is a multi that leads the cachers to a site near the RR tracks. Not a problem when the train wasn't running, but more of a problem now with the train starting back up this June. Better safe than sorry.

I have disabled Rubic's revenge for now till we can either figure out new parking coords or confirm if it is or is not legal to cross the RR tracks to get to the area where the cache is.
If anyone has any ideas on this any help would be greatly appreciated.

RobT

Does anybody know if the tracks near Sebago Lake that cross 114 by Cole Hill Rd are completely abandoned?

Actually, at the time that cache was placed, the track was INACTIVE. There are MANY tracks in Maine that have not been used in years.True, and if they're abandoned, that's a different story. But abandoned and inactive are not the same. The Rockland Branch was "inactive" from the time of the last Maine Central train until the Maine Coast started running it again. Some people were surprised to find that trains were once again using the track, and some were surprised years later when train speeds increased following the installation of CWR and other improvements. There's always that 10% that "doesn't get 'the word'."
The next time you're stuck in traffic, waiting to get past a fender-bender, notice the surprised looks on the faces of the drivers. What is the one thing that all of those people have in common? None of them thought that it was going to happen to them on that day.


The caution urged by the cache owner was the same as would be posted for any bridge - snomobile, walking, etc.Except that those structures aren't covered by a state law that says you're not supposed to be out there.


Relax. Maine cachers aren't stupid. Well, most of us aren't...I don't think I implied that anywhere in my posts. "Stupid" people wouldn't be able to do all that cool stuff that's involved in geocaching. I'm just trying to help make sure you're all alive and well and able to enjoy it.

Trainhunter,

While I respect that people do need to be reminded of the danger of RR tracks after searching the maine statues, contacting the lawyer for the Maine State police and other outdoor entusiests I have not finding any info that even implies that it would be ileagal to just cross the tracks I need to ask you if you can find this law. I do not wish to cause anyone to break the Law either intensionally or by not being aware and would not Place a cache that would require anyone to violate the law. If I do decided to reenable my cache I am planning on placeing a warning about the track though.
Any further info would be appreciated.

RobT

The Calais branch of what was Maine Central RR is abandoned and the property is owned by the State. When I placed Hobo's Companion (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1bde70ec-296e-4387-b1a4-32616766f5f2)
I spent the better half of a day getting the runaround from various state offices before getting the OK for a cache on their property. The lady at the state said they were ok with hikers and snow sleds when theres sufficient snow cover but they generally discouraged ATV usage. I made note of this on my cache page.
The only "RR related" use I've seen in the last several years are some folks that bought or built "putt-putt" cars that cruise the rails where they're fit to travel on. We might get a dozen or so during the summer months. Actually I'd like to build one for the fun of it..

JW

http://www.fish.state.pa.us/Fish/images/pages/qa/railroad.htm

Trainhunter,

While I respect that people do need to be reminded of the danger of RR tracks after searching the maine statues, contacting the lawyer for the Maine State police and other outdoor entusiests I have not finding any info that even implies that it would be ileagal to just cross the tracks I need to ask you if you can find this law.
RobT

Well, this crossed my mind once or twice as well. Can someone cite a statute on this? :)

Well, this crossed my mind once or twice as well. Can someone cite a statute on this? :)I think I posted this earlier, but since it's gone to four pages' worth, I can't remember anymore. :p
"1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance." -- MRSA Title 23, §7007; Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle (23MRSA7007) [Emphasis added.]

In 1999, Maine had 625 active grade crossings located at public roads. I don't know how many bridges over tracks are public ways, with provisions for pedestrian and/or vehicle traffic, but designated crossings and bridges are the only places anyone should be crossing any track that is not legally abandoned, unless they own the property where a recognized private crossing is, or otherwise have permission to use same.
Re the cache that referred to going onto the B&ML trestle, my thanks to all who cooperated in abating a potentially dangerous situation. I had a conversation with someone at the B&ML today, and they appreciate your respecting their property. They will be taking steps to make sure that "fisherfolk" and others don't go trespassing under a belief that the line is "abandoned."
I wish you all many safe and enjoyable placing/finding expeditions. Thanks again.

--
Doug Clark
"Stay off! Stay away! Stay Alive!"

I think I posted this earlier, but since it's gone to four pages' worth, I can't remember anymore. :p
"1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance." -- MRSA Title 23, §7007; Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle (23MRSA7007) [Emphasis added.]

OK, thanks. I've printed that out and will attach it to my windshield visor to remind me to NEVAH, EVAH walk on a railroad track,or cross the track with my team. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

OK, thanks. I've printed that out and will attach it to my windshield visor to remind me to NEVAH, EVAH walk on a railroad track,or cross the track with my team. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

geeze bruce... you just couldnt leave well enough alone.... :rolleyes:

geeze bruce... you just couldnt leave well enough alone.... :rolleyes:

:p :p

I get cranked when some people take simple things to extremes... :D :D

I think I posted this earlier, but since it's gone to four pages' worth, I can't remember anymore. :p
"1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance." -- MRSA Title 23, §7007; Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle (23MRSA7007) [Emphasis added.]

In 1999, Maine had 625 active grade crossings located at public roads. I don't know how many bridges over tracks are public ways, with provisions for pedestrian and/or vehicle traffic, but designated crossings and bridges are the only places anyone should be crossing any track that is not legally abandoned, unless they own the property where a recognized private crossing is, or otherwise have permission to use same.
Re the cache that referred to going onto the B&ML trestle, my thanks to all who cooperated in abating a potentially dangerous situation. I had a conversation with someone at the B&ML today, and they appreciate your respecting their property. They will be taking steps to make sure that "fisherfolk" and others don't go trespassing under a belief that the line is "abandoned."
I wish you all many safe and enjoyable placing/finding expeditions. Thanks again.

--
Doug Clark
"Stay off! Stay away! Stay Alive!"

Trainhunter,

Thanks for the update. I am working on moving it and it is disabled it till I gan get it moved. Thanks for your help

May 23 by <A style="TEXT-DECORATION: underline" name=15573754>gpsfun (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=5a549092-8da0-42f5-a418-be64d4258026) (319 found)
Greetings, **********.
After reviewing the corrected coordinates, the forgotten town cache number GCVNJV appears to be placed close to a railroad track. It is a Federal offense to place an object like a Geocache near an active rail line. A Geocacher has been arrested, jailed, had to go to court and paid a large fine for placing a cache near an active railroad line. The local bomb squad destroyed his cache. You can read more about it here: (visit link (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=21328&log=y#322202))
Please note carefully the May 5, 2002 log titled Hillwilly's Day In Court.
Since this is an active rail line, even if it is only used infrequently, this cache must be moved or removed. This is covered in the guidelines and requirements to place a cache: (visit link (http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#offlimit))
If you are able to move the cache so it is not on the railroad right of way or on private property, please make the appropriate changes in the cache coordinates. Please do not enable the cache page until this is resolved.
Thanks, -gpsfun
geocaching.com volunteer reviewer

i am glad to see that they're not approving caches... lets ya know they're keeping their eyes out for stuff like that. :)

i am glad to see that they're not approving caches... lets ya know they're keeping their eyes out for stuff like that. :)

I think GPSFUN is one of the better approvers. Always helpful when you ask, and ready to explain the rational for his decision not to approve a cache.

Really sticks to the rules.

And he's a nice guy (as anyone who has met him at the couple of Maine events he has attended will agree). :D :D