View Full Version : Cachers Who Don't Sign The Log, Do we let them keep their finds OR



misha
06-13-2006, 10:36 PM
I have a problem there is a cacher in Moncton who is logging caches that they haven't signed. It's not a few missed it is systemic. Do I allow this person to keep their log or not.

Misha http://www.maritimegeocaching.com/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

brdad
06-13-2006, 11:17 PM
Email and ask why and then if you want to be nice say if they can describe every hide you'll let them keep them. I'm not sure I could be nice!

It is just a game, but cheating just cheapens everyone else's finds.

Sabby
06-13-2006, 11:32 PM
I think that most of us are of the opinion that if you do not sign the log then you have not found the cache. There are a few exceptions that have been "worked out" by the finder and owner.

attroll
06-13-2006, 11:46 PM
I think that most of us are of the opinion that if you do not sign the log then you have not found the cache. There are a few exceptions that have been "worked out" by the finder and owner.
I agree. I always thought it was common knowledge that you were suppose to sign the log unless there was a good reason why you could not.

It sounds like this guy may not really be finding the caches if he is doing this quite often.

Mainiac1957
06-14-2006, 06:11 AM
I too had a situation where a very prolific cacher logged one of my caches but never signed the log. I would like to believe it was just an oversight on their part. I have always subscribed to that philosophy that if I don't personally touch the cache and log book then it's not a find. I even had a cache that I found in the first year that I was told by the owner was picked up and I was in the right spot. They let me log it, but I later deleted the log just because. Of course this was by my own choice. I guess it's an individuals choice as to how strict they want to be on logging. After all it's only a game.;)

Cache'n Jacksons
06-14-2006, 06:20 AM
Maybe the person never learned how to spell? Or they have really really bad penmanship? ;)

brdad
06-14-2006, 06:23 AM
Maybe the person never learned how to spell? Or they have really really bad penmanship? ;)

I know a few of my logs no one could read but myself. I get all jittery from the excitement of finding a cache!

The G Team
06-14-2006, 06:59 AM
I have to concur with Brad. If there are no "winners" or "losers" in this game, how can one possibly "cheat", and who would they be "cheating"--if anyone, themselves. I've got a couple finds from my first year or so that were with a group and I didn't actually sign the book. I soon decided that I don't think this is right for me, so I don't do it anymore--no sign, no log--but that is just me. If adding one more find to their found count by logging my cache w/o visiting the beautiful Kennebec river, makes someone feel better, I hope they feel free to--I won't call the cache police. :)

firefighterjake
06-14-2006, 08:26 AM
I agree. I always thought it was common knowledge that you were suppose to sign the log unless there was a good reason why you could not.

It sounds like this guy may not really be finding the caches if he is doing this quite often.

I agree with attroll who agrees with Sabby. :D

This is only a game, but even games have "rules" and to me personally finding the cache and physically signing the log and then logging the find on line is part of the "rules."

Personally, if someone is logging finds that he or she hasn't really found I can't see them getting a lot of enjoyment out of this hobby since half of the fun for me is finding the hidden cache and having that "Ah-ha" moment and the other half of the fun is in discovering new spots which may not be listed in any booklet or brochure put out by any Maine tourism agency . . . and then the other "half" of the fun is the journey on the backroads trying to find the cache, another "half" is the misadventures I have along the way and the final "half" is meeting all of the other demented geocachers out there. ;) :D

firefighterjake
06-14-2006, 08:27 AM
I have to concur with Brad. If there are no "winners" or "losers" in this game, how can one possibly "cheat", and who would they be "cheating"--if anyone, themselves. I've got a couple finds from my first year or so that were with a group and I didn't actually sign the book. I soon decided that I don't think this is right for me, so I don't do it anymore--no sign, no log--but that is just me. If adding one more find to their found count by logging my cache w/o visiting the beautiful Kennebec river, makes someone feel better, I hope they feel free to--I won't call the cache police. :)

The "Cache Police" -- that would be Hollara, right? ;) :D

firefighterjake
06-14-2006, 08:28 AM
I know a few of my logs no one could read but myself. I get all jittery from the excitement of finding a cache!

HaHa . . . I thought I was the only one who scribbled out a log and looked back it and figured it was barely readable . . . usually it's not because of the excitement of finding the cache as it is with me trying to write out a log as quickly as possible while being eaten alive by the mosquitoes and blackflies. :D

WhereRWe?
06-14-2006, 08:50 AM
I have a problem there is a cacher in Moncton who is logging caches that they haven't signed. It's not a few missed it is systemic. Do I allow this person to keep their log or not.

Misha http://www.maritimegeocaching.com/forum/html/emoticons/sad.gif

I agree with the other comments - you need to sign the log.

Having said that, however, we rarely sign the logs in micro-micro caches as, being "older", and having arthritic fingers, it's too hard to get the log out, write real small, then get the log back in! LOL! (I usually state this in my online log, and advise the cache owner that I'm perfectly willing to email them with sufficient proof that we actually found the cache.

Haffy
06-14-2006, 08:53 AM
I agree with attroll who agrees with Sabby. :D


Personally, if someone is logging finds that he or she hasn't really found I can't see them getting a lot of enjoyment out of this hobby since half of the fun for me is finding the hidden cache and having that "Ah-ha" moment and the other half of the fun is in discovering new spots which may not be listed in any booklet or brochure put out by any Maine tourism agency . . . and then the other "half" of the fun is the journey on the backroads trying to find the cache, another "half" is the misadventures I have along the way and the final "half" is meeting all of the other demented geocachers out there. ;) :D


Hey how many "half's in a whole anyway" ? :confused:

FuddsGirls
06-14-2006, 09:13 AM
Who cares if they don't really find it. We know it doesn't count if the log isn't signed and if they are doing it to make their numbers look better then they won't last long at this game. The only time it really matters as far as a log on line is FTF. Their loss of all the fun really involved with this sport. I agree that a nice e-mail would help, maybe they don't realize that the book needs to be signed. When I started I didn't realize it was that important and didn't know what to say.

brdad
06-14-2006, 09:30 AM
Hey how many "half's in a whole anyway" ? :confused:

Hey, this is caching. there is always more than one hole! :D

brdad
06-14-2006, 09:34 AM
Having said that, however, we rarely sign the logs in micro-micro caches as, being "older", and having arthritic fingers, it's too hard to get the log out, write real small, then get the log back in! LOL! (I usually state this in my online log, and advise the cache owner that I'm perfectly willing to email them with sufficient proof that we actually found the cache.

Hmmm, so if you see a cache up in a tree, do you log it if you can't climb? If you can see an underwater cache and can't swim?

Actually, maybe this is a reason for banning micros. It's demeaning to those with big fingers or arthritis. Or, like we have to have several languages, maybe hiders should be forced to hide different size caches at each location.

WhereRWe?
06-14-2006, 09:58 AM
Hmmm, so if you see a cache up in a tree, do you log it if you can't climb? If you can see an underwater cache and can't swim?


Just seeing a cache is a lot different from holding it in your hand. We've found several caches with screw-on tops that we just couldn't get opened. Should we not log those?

If we find a cache that is thoroughly soaked and the log has deteriorated into mush - can we not count that cachce as a find because we are unable to sign the log? (We've found quite a few of these - and have just left our signature Maine Geocacher Permit as proof we actually were in the cache).

No - I find no fault with our standards. :D :D

brdad
06-14-2006, 10:15 AM
Just seeing a cache is a lot different from holding it in your hand. We've found several caches with screw-on tops that we just couldn't get opened. Should we not log those?

If we find a cache that is thoroughly soaked and the log has deteriorated into mush - can we not count that cachce as a find because we are unable to sign the log? (We've found quite a few of these - and have just left our signature Maine Geocacher Permit as proof we actually were in the cache).

No - I find no fault with our standards. :D :D

That's between you and the owner. The line between right and wrong vary with every situation.

Personally, I have fought with a few lids but always managed to open them. So I'm not sure I'd log the find or not in that case. But if it started happening often, I'd be carrying a jar opener in my bag! I put some tweezers in my bag for the micros, but have not used them yet.

I've put a dry sheet of paper with my log on it in wet caches. It's not the actual log, but it works for me. of course, if the cache is that wet, my log will probably be ruined by the time anyone checks it anyway.

parmachenee
06-14-2006, 11:37 AM
I've put a dry sheet of paper with my log on it in wet caches. It's not the actual log, but it works for me. of course, if the cache is that wet, my log will probably be ruined by the time anyone checks it anyway.

I actually just did that with the Cusuptic Boat Launch cache. And considering the condition of the container the log is probably already wet with all the rain we've had even though I did place it in a baggie.:mad:

firefighterjake
06-14-2006, 12:02 PM
Hey how many "half's in a whole anyway" ? :confused:

:D I was wondering if anyone would pick up on my attempt at humor.

firefighterjake
06-14-2006, 12:04 PM
Hey, this is caching. there is always more than one hole! :D

Hmmm . . . I usually manage to find the hole without the cache container. :D

WhereRWe?
06-14-2006, 12:12 PM
Personally, I have fought with a few lids but always managed to open them. So I'm not sure I'd log the find or not in that case. But if it started happening often, I'd be carrying a jar opener in my bag! I put some tweezers in my bag for the micros, but have not used them yet.

I've put a dry sheet of paper with my log on it in wet caches. It's not the actual log, but it works for me. of course, if the cache is that wet, my log will probably be ruined by the time anyone checks it anyway.

LOL! Dave, you're a purist, with very narrowly defined standards. :D :D

I think the general drift of this thread is: did the cacher FIND the cache? If so, they should sign the log. There will be some cases where can't, for one VALID reason or another. The question then as to whether or not you claim a find is a personal one. :p :p

Haffy
06-14-2006, 12:32 PM
My thinking is if I can't sign the log then I DON'T claim the find. There have been just a couple of instances where I have found the cache and not signed the log ( Frozen in the ground in the winter) or too many muggles around to actually sign it and I haven't claimed the find but that is just me. Just recently while caching in the Lewiston area we didn't find the cache and called the owner to tell him about it being missing and he insisted we claim the find even though it had been muggled. I still didn't claim the find. Each to his own I guess but that is MY personal choice.

we3beans
06-14-2006, 01:00 PM
I've only claimed 2 caches where we were unable to sign a log with the cache owners permission. One was in Aroostook Cty, (weren't you with us Haffy?) where we found peices of the cache everywhere. The other I emailed the owner that the cache was missing and told him where it had been, size, writing on the wall etc. I signed a piece of paper, put in plastic bag and in the spot it went. Luckily, I've been able to get into everything else I've found.

dí76
06-14-2006, 04:24 PM
Hmmm . . . I usually manage to find the hole without the cache container. :D

Keep it clean this is a family website!:D

Haffy
06-14-2006, 05:14 PM
Hey you're the one with the dirty mind.......:)

Haffy
06-14-2006, 05:16 PM
I've only claimed 2 caches where we were unable to sign a log with the cache owners permission. One was in Aroostook Cty, (weren't you with us Haffy?) where we found peices of the cache everywhere.

Yep I was there and remember we all signed the torn and wet log sheet and turned it in to Brian? :D

firefighterjake
06-15-2006, 07:36 AM
Keep it clean this is a family website!:D

:eek: Oh my . . . I wasn't even thinking that way . . . I meant I usually find all of the holes without the cache . . . and the ones that are full of live critters, trash, broken glass, etc.

we3beans
06-15-2006, 10:13 AM
Haffy, you're right, I forgot we signed that! Seems like such a long time ago....<sigh>....

Kaching Karen
06-15-2006, 06:07 PM
This is a subject that T2h and I have been discussing lately. His navigator has his own caching name now. I think he should be able to go back and log, on the computer, all the caches he did with his father. Just the ones he was actually there. T2h says, "no, his name is not in the log."
I have two logs in the Seattle area that my name couldn't get on. One was because a young couple was thoroughly enjoying themselves on a bench that had a cache under it (I did take a picture of the couple and the bench) and the other was a dog park. I could see the cache, but there were just too many muggles. I didn't have a dog... My chances of getting back there were not that great. Both times I e-mailed the owners and asked permission to claim it as a log. I also claimed a virtual because there was construction all around the plaque that I was suppose to get information off of. The owner was okay with that. He just wanted people to see the view. So, people have different opinions. I'm pretty loyal to having to sign the log.

brdad
06-15-2006, 06:14 PM
This is a subject that T2h and I have been discussing lately. His navigator has his own caching name now. I think he should be able to go back and log, on the computer, all the caches he did with his father. Just the ones he was actually there. T2h says, "no, his name is not in the log."

I thought the T in T2H was Team? That means the team found it if they were both there. My user name implies both my son and I, he rarely goes now but I would see nothing wrong in him logging the ones he went to. But, it's all a matter of personal decision.

Lately, whoever retreives the cache between Lee and I seems to log for both, so technically one of us don't sign the logbook. So, maybe we're not such the purists?

Yeehawma
06-16-2006, 12:07 AM
Since the rules in this game are vague and tend to vary, I think its up to the cache owner to set the rules to claim the cache as a find. Just reading the comments here shows the wide range of opinion as to whether signing the log is required. The bottom line lies with the cache owner.

I was having a similiar problem with one of my TBs in the Saco TB Hotel Cache. Lots of people were logging him out and right back into the same cache. I finally posted a plea for someone to move him out of that cache. Thanks to Hipointer and Capiti for giving him a ride out. I still haven't decided whether those logs should be deleted or not.

becket
06-16-2006, 05:37 AM
This is a subject that T2h and I have been discussing lately. His navigator has his own caching name now. I think he should be able to go back and log, on the computer, all the caches he did with his father. Just the ones he was actually there. T2h says, "no, his name is not in the log."

i agree with brdad - he was part of the team, he helped find the caches but you signed for the team. i think he should be able to go back and post for the ones he found with you.

WhereRWe?
06-16-2006, 07:23 AM
Lately, whoever retreives the cache between Lee and I seems to log for both, so technically one of us don't sign the logbook. So, maybe we're not such the purists?

Gotcha! :p :p :p

Northwoods Explorer
07-17-2006, 12:39 PM
Recently changed the log in one and found just the reverse, 38 names on the logsheet with only 8 logged on the computer.

attroll
07-17-2006, 01:25 PM
Recently changed the log in one and found just the reverse, 38 names on the logsheet with only 8 logged on the computer.
I see this sometimes also. I think what some of this is from friends that are tagging along with the cachers will sign the log book sometimes but are not cachers themselves.

ON another note I have sometimes run into people while caching and got there GC names and found that they never sign their finds in GC.

firefighterjake
07-17-2006, 04:05 PM
I see this sometimes also. I think what some of this is from friends that are tagging along with the cachers will sign the log book sometimes but are not cachers themselves.

ON another note I have sometimes run into people while caching and got there GC names and found that they never sign their finds in GC.

I've seen this as well . . . I ran into a geocacher on Deer Isle who said he never signs on-line and just geocaches as a fun hobby to do with his grandson.

I've also met a geocacher who doesn't sign on-line . . . and he says he repeatedly has looked for the same cache . . . this seems kind of boring to me to find the same cache over and over again (unless you have sort of long term memory loss in which case I imagine you would constantly be surprised every time you find the cache and you could have the excitement of finding the same cache over and over again without having to travel far from home which could result in a lot of savings in gas expenditures! :D :rolleyes: )

robt
07-17-2006, 05:15 PM
My first Cache the log was signed by several muggles that found it :)

becket
07-17-2006, 07:32 PM
I've seen this as well . . . I ran into a geocacher on Deer Isle who said he never signs on-line and just geocaches as a fun hobby to do with his grandson.


I've also met a geocacher who doesn't sign on-line . . . and he says he repeatedly has looked for the same cache . . . this seems kind of boring to me to find the same cache over and over again (unless you have sort of long term memory loss in which case I imagine you would constantly be surprised every time you find the cache and you could have the excitement of finding the same cache over and over again without having to travel far from home which could result in a lot of savings in gas expenditures! :D :rolleyes: )

reading this gave me a headache, but i DID follow it every step of the way! geez, now THAT'S scary! :eek:

ribnag
07-17-2006, 07:57 PM
firefighterjake : They let me log it, but I later deleted the log just because.

[edited - Sorry, wrong attribution - Mainiac1957 said that, not firefighterjake]

Regarding the accuracy of logs - I have (at least) two travel bugs logged that not only no longer exist, but actually map to a different TB! Formerly "yin" and "yang" which I had the privilege of reuniting (my first and only paired TB that I brought back together). The same numbers now map to... Huh... GC.com doesn't seem to want to let me track any TBs today, and searching by name returns a ton of "yangs". Flakey... :rolleyes:

Anyway...

Personally, I try to sign into each book, but I consider the actual opening of the cache the "find". if I don't get to open it, no find (I had two of those due to muggles last weekend :( ). But if I open the cache (even if for some reason I don't sign in - Usually bugs or rain or no more pages), I count it as a find and log it.

I also keep a personal webpage of my finds, which seems to drastically disagree with GC.com's count - My personal count (123 as of Sunday) actually stays quite a bit lower than the "official" number (135), as I do not count repeats as a find, but it also includes visits that GC.com seems to have completely forgotten about - Not "deleted by author", not renamed, not delisted for planting in a forbidden zone - Just no record that I ever logged it.

I have no intention of "cheating" (as an aside, I have photographic proof of every cache and TB I claim to have found, frequently including an in-frame GPS lock and an additional context shot of the spot from a distance) - I do this because I love finding new places to hike, and don't know of any better way (for that matter, can't even imagine a better way) to get me to such places. But I also don't like the idea that "credit" for a find depends on an ever-increasingly commercialized site that allows whimsical cache planters to erase any record of my finds. A nice friendly "contested" annotation, or showing it in all struck-out text I wouldn't mind, but to just erase it - Too "1984" for my liking.

ribnag
07-17-2006, 08:08 PM
brdad : Hey, this is caching. there is always more than one hole!

Don't forget more than one "third mossy stone on the left", and more than one "giant spruce", and more than one "stone wall", and more than one "grassy knoll after the blue blaze"... :D

firefighterjake
07-18-2006, 08:44 AM
But I also don't like the idea that "credit" for a find depends on an ever-increasingly commercialized site that allows whimsical cache planters to erase any record of my finds. A nice friendly "contested" annotation, or showing it in all struck-out text I wouldn't mind, but to just erase it - Too "1984" for my liking.

This reminded me of an incident a few weeks back where I logged a legitimate find (signed log book, posted on-line) at a certain rest stop which shall remain nameless. In my on-line log I wrote how this spot seemed to have some questionable activities going on . . . I did this as an advisory for other geocachers . . . not to disuade them from caching there, but rather to give them some advance knowledge.

A day or two later I just happened to notice that my number count seemed to be off -- turns out the new geocache hider didn't like what I posted and deleted it without notifying me. :mad:

The long and short of it . . . I reposted a simple "Found it" log . . . and also let GPSfun know about this potential problem site and he posted a very neutral advisory note on the cache page.

I was a bit peeved with the whole idea of someone just arbitrarily deleting my find and wonder if others couldn't decide to do this . . . for example if I decided that I really hated Sudonim (I picked him because who can hate Andy -- I mean he's like the nicest guy I have ever met) and opted to delete all of his finds at my caches what would prevent this from happening? Other than going back and checking each and every cache entry would there be any way to tell right away who had deleted your logs and finds? This whole experience left a bit of a bitter taste in my proverbial mouth.

Sudonim
07-18-2006, 08:59 AM
Hey, wait. What happened to all of my "found" logs for Unity???
Half of them have been deleted :eek:
(Oh, wait, I just haven't done them yet)
:D :D

Haffy
07-18-2006, 11:28 AM
The only one who can delete your logs and finds is the cache owner of that particular cache that you posted in.

ribnag
07-22-2006, 06:07 PM
firefighterjake : at a certain rest stop which shall remain nameless.

Okay, scary story time... :(

At a certain also-nameless ex-weigh-station in MA, I once stopped in to check on a TB-oriented cache for anything new. Of course, naturally I do this alone rather than having someone with me (as I would 99.9% of the time - Don't hike alone, kids!)

A couple other cars have parked there, as usual, so I think nothing of it. I get out of my car and head toward the woods. At that point I notice a guy get out of his truck and walk in the same general direction - No big deal, yet, just a coincidence. :confused:

I walk through the woods a short way (the cache only lies a quarter mile from where I parked), and this guy seems to have basically followed me, even though I've taken a twisty path. So, not wanting to lead him right to the cache, I decide to look natural - I stop and do what most people do at highway rest-areas, discretely against a tree. :o

The guy also stops, and at first I thought he too had decided to water the plants - A moment later, I realize he has decided to do something entirely different, the whole time staring right at me. No joking - I had a guy "rubbing one out", 20ft away while watching me pee. :mad:

:eek: CREEPY!!! :eek:

Needless to say, I immediately "stowed my gear" and took off at a fast walk to my car - And he tried to follow (though due to his pants, only at a slow waddle, so didn't get any closer).

MoxieMan
07-22-2006, 07:39 PM
Ok, one word....EWWWW!


firefighterjake : at a certain rest stop which shall remain nameless.

Okay, scary story time... :(

At a certain also-nameless ex-weigh-station in MA, I once stopped in to check on a TB-oriented cache for anything new. Of course, naturally I do this alone rather than having someone with me (as I would 99.9% of the time - Don't hike alone, kids!)

A couple other cars have parked there, as usual, so I think nothing of it. I get out of my car and head toward the woods. At that point I notice a guy get out of his truck and walk in the same general direction - No big deal, yet, just a coincidence. :confused:

I walk through the woods a short way (the cache only lies a quarter mile from where I parked), and this guy seems to have basically followed me, even though I've taken a twisty path. So, not wanting to lead him right to the cache, I decide to look natural - I stop and do what most people do at highway rest-areas, discretely against a tree. :o

The guy also stops, and at first I thought he too had decided to water the plants - A moment later, I realize he has decided to do something entirely different, the whole time staring right at me. No joking - I had a guy "rubbing one out", 20ft away while watching me pee. :mad:

:eek: CREEPY!!! :eek:

Needless to say, I immediately "stowed my gear" and took off at a fast walk to my car - And he tried to follow (though due to his pants, only at a slow waddle, so didn't get any closer).

firefighterjake
07-24-2006, 01:02 PM
Ok, one word....EWWWW!

My exact thought as I was reading that post . . . although then again one might feel flattered. :eek: :rolleyes: :D

Hiram357
07-25-2006, 09:18 PM
My exact thought as I was reading that post . . . although then again one might feel flattered. :eek: :rolleyes: :D

that's not really something I would find myself being proud of....

Hiram357
07-25-2006, 09:20 PM
this may seem off topic, but is there a way to tell if someone deletes your post? or will you just see your numbers go down?

firefighterjake
07-26-2006, 08:18 AM
this may seem off topic, but is there a way to tell if someone deletes your post? or will you just see your numbers go down?

I didn't know it was possible to delete someone else's post.

Cache Maine
07-26-2006, 10:00 AM
this may seem off topic, but is there a way to tell if someone deletes your post? or will you just see your numbers go down?

The "someone" is one of three admin and moderators who keep an eye on the site, and they are the only ones that can edit or delete posts. Your post count will decrease if your post is deleted. If your post is no longer where you posted it, then it's either been moved to the correct forum category or it's been deleted. If you have a specific question regarding this, feel free to contact Rick, Haffy or myself.

we3beans
07-26-2006, 10:22 AM
Or was he talking about post (log) to a cache?
And I think the answer to the post/log question is no, unless the owner of the cache emails you and tells you they are deleting your log. You'll only see your number go down.

firefighterjake
07-26-2006, 10:28 AM
The "someone" is one of three admin and moderators who keep an eye on the site, and they are the only ones that can edit or delete posts. Your post count will decrease if your post is deleted. If your post is no longer where you posted it, then it's either been moved to the correct forum category or it's been deleted. If you have a specific question regarding this, feel free to contact Rick, Haffy or myself.

I would hope that if someone edited, deleted, moved or sent the thread into the deep recesses of outer space that they would also PM or e-mail the member with the post as to what they did and why.

firefighterjake
07-26-2006, 10:35 AM
Or was he talking about post (log) to a cache?
And I think the answer to the post/log question is no, unless the owner of the cache emails you and tells you they are deleting your log. You'll only see your number go down.

Having been on the receiving end of this I can tell you that it leaves a proverbial distaste in my mouth . . . seems to me that common courtesy if a post is deleted by the cache owner is to send an e-mail stating that the post was deleted and why. :mad:

Hiram . . . have you had a logged entry at gc.com or posted thread here deleted?

Haffy
07-26-2006, 12:25 PM
He was referring to a GC.com post I believe.