View Full Version : Why be stealthy?



brdad
08-08-2007, 07:34 PM
First of all, I don't necessarily feel or practice what I am about to say, but sometimes the thoughts do cross my mind. And I have a hard time discrediting those thoughts. Plus, the forums have been slow so I thought this might start some discussion. :rolleyes:

Facts (Or my interpretation of them):

1. Most cachers love to tell everyone they run into about all the fun involved in caching. Family members, people we meet on the trail, old friends, new friends, people who start meaningless discussions with us in our passings, we just want to get the word out and share our stories.

2. In the current stage of Geocaching, cachers should feel confident that the caches they are searching for are placed legally and with permission, especially those in high muggle areas.

3. If someone sees you sneaking around an area looking for a cache, you will arise much more suspicion than if you openly look for it, explaining what you are doing if confronted.

Following that philosophy, why do so many cache pages ask that we be stealthy? Should we really be concerned with that expensive film canister being found by onlooking muggles? Why do we bother to be stealthy while looking for a cache? Why not let any interested parties join in and learn the fun of caching? And in the event the cache was not placed legally or with permission, is it so bad we lose that cache? If we are caught sneaking while finding a cache, doesn't that just make the watchers assume Geocaching is an underground activity?

dragonflys
08-08-2007, 07:47 PM
bravo, that is how I feel too

Team2hunt
08-08-2007, 07:55 PM
I was reccently hunting for a micro in a very active area. A local swimming hole on a 90+ degree afternoon. This was one of only 2 on this particular map page for the NH DeLorme " No Page Unturned ". Being that it was under a structure that was occupied, and I really wasn't leaving without signing the log, ( almost 90 miles out of my way ). I started a conversation with the muggle in the area. " Have you ever heard of Geocaching? " I figure the person who hid it, must know the area and has to figure that muggles will be there when the park is open. Stealthy.....well kinda. I didn't just reach in grab the container and sign the log. Which would have aroused much more suspicion. Place a cache in an area like this and take what cachers do with your hide. There are plenty of areas left in New England where no one visits for days. I have recently been there. It's called the " woods ".

hollora
08-08-2007, 08:55 PM
Interesting points. I happen to get a kick out of nicely placed Nanos - do I approached my town about using a restored plow to place a cache. The Public Works director was honored and said, "go for it" - "should I help them when they are hunting or just smile and wave". Although the road is busy the neighbors are not real close.

So I bought and placed a nano. It required one sit down and sort of let your fingers do the walking to find it. Lots of folks found it and had fun. It was midway between some other caches in town and the plow was actually a vintage relic.

Well, early spring we thought it had been muggled but I went back to replace it and found the original. More recently - it was muggled - no where to be found. Now, what are the chances that a non-cacher would find a very tiny nano hidden on a great big plow?! And if they did - why to H _ _ _ would they take it? So, first time gone - I replaced it.

Now, I discover this has, yet again, been muggled. All within a couple of weeks. Now, one reason this is a shame it that we have permission for this cache to be here. On town property and with the blessing of the public works foreman.

I will replace this cache one more time - maybe even more deviously. If it gets muggled again - there is another plan.

This is just one of those easy to grab areas, in a rural community, that is not in a lamp post. Although I have done lamp post caches and guard rail caches it is still fun to do something creative. I love the posts when folks do my xtra light cache.........it just goes to prove may things may be a container. And what about CaraBEANer? Now that one is very cool too!

Team2hunt
08-08-2007, 09:07 PM
Hopefully it will be available when we come up for the Folk Festival. FG loves the micro hides. We will be caching on Sunday, and only a few in the Bangor area. :cool:

d’76
08-08-2007, 09:29 PM
I recently gave up on being stealthy when caching in the Central Maine area when It would be imossible and an emense waste of time. I like Brdad said a "film canister" I had a hard enough time finding parking at the local swimming holes let alone be stealthy.

Good points Dave;)

brdad
08-09-2007, 05:39 AM
Hollora, I have been reading the logs on the Relic. It's hard to believe it was muggled. But maybe it was. I found a cache this weekend the owner thought was missing so they archived it a month ago (we were working with old data). It was right where it should be, but well out of normal reach. Old 470 was missing a few times - after a few DNF logs - Hiram, who had found it before, looked for it and verified it was missing. I went to replace it a couple days later, and it was there, only a few feet from where it should have been! Another time I checked on it, and the container was not only there, but the previous container which went missing was right there too!

Anyway, I hope the relic will stay for you this time. It'd be nice to have a camera on these caches like this, wouldn't it?

firefighterjake
08-09-2007, 07:52 AM
I agree Dave . . . in certain cases and certain examples. For me it all boils down to a "gut check." If it appears as though the folks/muggles at a site might be curious about geocaching and are not the type to ruin the experience for others by taking the cache I'll often explain what I'm doing and why I'm there.

There have been other times however when the muggles didn't appear to be the type who would be all that interested and could lead to the cache going MIA. Probably a little bit of bias and prejudice on my part, but again for me it all comes down to my feeling as to whether the folks will be interested in geocaching or not.

For a long time now I openly geocache . . . there I've said it . . . I'm out of the closet . . . I'm a geocacher and I'm proud. :D In all seriousness in most cases when I'm searching for a cache I'll have my GPSr out and if folks approach me and ask what I'm doing I'll let them know . . . pretending that I've stopped in middle of nowhere to make a call on my "cell phone" gets to be a little ridiculous after awhile . . . besides I figure I may eventually get another person to geocache and I can't tell you the number of times folks have told me that they have a GPSr at home and are intrigued with the idea of geocaching.

This said . . . I do believe there are times to be stealthy and practice some commonsense. For example, I have a cache in middle of downtown Unity -- right next to a bank, telephone company, insurance company, town office, post office and paging company. Now Unity isn't exactly a hotbed of illegal and/or terrorist activity, but I've asked folks to try to be a bit stealthly so a) the cops aren't called on them as they wander to and fro (because quite frankly some folks would rather call 911 when they see suspicious activity rather than ask folks what they are doing) and b) while my match container isn't wicked expensive I did take some time to glue on super-magnets and I don't relish replacing this cache time after time.

firefighterjake
08-09-2007, 07:54 AM
And then there's the Fitz cache. . . .:rolleyes: :eek: :D

That was one cache where folks clearly had other thoughts on their mind when they asked what I was doing and didn't stay long to hear my explanation of geocaching . . . odd that they weren't all that interested, eh?

firefighterjake
08-09-2007, 07:56 AM
. . .. Lots of folks found it and had fun. . .

HaHa . . . you're a funny gal Hollora. Your idea of fun and mine are quite different . . . it only took me what, 3 and a 1/2 times to find that cache? :D ;) By the way, and this is me being serious for a minute, this was a very good micro cache . . . providing the micro stays put.

firefighterjake
08-09-2007, 07:57 AM
. . .
I will replace this cache one more time - maybe even more deviously. If it gets muggled again - there is another plan. . . .


Even more deviously? :eek: Let me guess . . . you will use your Acme Miracle Invisible Ray Gun to render it invisible? :D

firefighterjake
08-09-2007, 08:01 AM
. . .
This is just one of those easy to grab areas, in a rural community, that is not in a lamp post. Although I have done lamp post caches and guard rail caches it is still fun to do something creative. I love the posts when folks do my xtra light cache.........it just goes to prove may things may be a container. And what about CaraBEANer? Now that one is very cool too!

While many folks know that I have ranted and raged about micros hidden in woods, I will also be the first to admit that I have seen some micros that I have loved . . . Cara"bean"er cache was one of those fun ones (even if it took me way too long and I was smacking myself in the head after finding it . . . "How could I have missed seeing that?!")

And I'll even confess . . . when I first found a micro under a lamp post I thought it was pretty neat . . . it's just that the thrill of finding those and GRCs gets old after a while . . . but I should add that I have seen some variances on those themes . . . Laughing Terry has a nice LPC in Skowhegan for example and I did a GRC a little south of Augusta that wasn't in the usual GRC spot.

Foxgloves
08-09-2007, 08:29 AM
......Why do we bother to be stealthy while looking for a cache? Why not let any interested parties join in and learn the fun of caching? .....If we are caught sneaking while finding a cache, doesn't that just make the watchers assume Geocaching is an underground activity?

I agree with Brdad. I’m tired of being stealthy. I don’t even bother anymore. If someone asks me what I am doing, I simply say I am “researching” and if that response doesn’t sastify them and promotes more questions, I tell them about geocaching. A muggle that you’ve had a conversation with about geocaching is less apt to muggle a cache than some one who sees you suspiciously loitering around in a very public place with a gadget in your hand and then walks up to the cache after you leave to figure out what you were doing. If I see a cache page that says “stealth is required” or “high muggle area” that cache goes at the bottom of my “to do list” Now if it says “nano in the woods” I’m all over it.:)

I thought we as geocachers were supposed to recruit new people to the sport so why try and hide what you are doing?

Sabby
08-09-2007, 09:11 AM
I believe that the cache hider has as more responsibility than the finder to ensure that a cache is not muggled. It is not reasonable to me to hide a cache in a "high traffic" area and then expect that it will not be found by a non-cacher.

If you hide a cache it is so that it can be found by a large variety of other cachers. Many are from some distance away and do not have the ability to come back at a "more convenient" time. Does this mean that they should not look for it? I think not.

Pull out the GPS, search, answer questions from others honestly, and if the cache disappears afterwards then it most probably was not a "good hide".

I do not let a "stealth is required" from stopping me from searching, but I do try to use what I believe is "reasonable" caution.

You put it there expect others to look for it whenever they get there.

becket
08-09-2007, 02:36 PM
I believe that the cache hider has as more responsibility than the finder to ensure that a cache is not muggled. It is not reasonable to me to hide a cache in a "high traffic" area and then expect that it will not be found by a non-cacher.

If you hide a cache it is so that it can be found by a large variety of other cachers. Many are from some distance away and do not have the ability to come back at a "more convenient" time. Does this mean that they should not look for it? I think not.

Pull out the GPS, search, answer questions from others honestly, and if the cache disappears afterwards then it most probably was not a "good hide".

I do not let a "stealth is required" from stopping me from searching, but I do try to use what I believe is "reasonable" caution.

You put it there expect others to look for it whenever they get there.
i absolutely agree, sabby! one of the caches i got last sunday was in bowerbank - a considerable distance for me to travel. there were muggles there but i didn't let that stop me.

i agree - if a person puts a cache in a high traffic area, they have to accept that the cache may disappear. if they are that worried that the cache will go missing, then it probably isn't a good place for it. don't make it the finder's fault.

i was not going to wait around for the muggles to leave the area last sunday. they didn't seem to be in any hurry and they weren't paying that much attention to me, anyway. i found the cache, got back in my car and drove off. there was no "come back later" option for me.

i don't sneak around to find caches. if muggles ask what i'm doing, i tell them. one guy said, well what's the point of that? i told him the most important point was to get me off the couch!

brdad
08-12-2007, 06:43 AM
And then there's the Fitz cache. . . .:rolleyes: :eek: :D

That was one cache where folks clearly had other thoughts on their mind when they asked what I was doing and didn't stay long to hear my explanation of geocaching . . . odd that they weren't all that interested, eh?

On the other hand, truthfully telling them what you were doing also tells them that you are not there to whatever weird stuff they are looking to do, while avoiding the subject may make them think you are just not sure what they are there for.

And the worst case, it's gets plundered and helps the cache owner understand this may not be an easy place to keep a cache.

brdad
08-12-2007, 06:50 AM
This said . . . I do believe there are times to be stealthy and practice some commonsense. For example, I have a cache in middle of downtown Unity -- right next to a bank, telephone company, insurance company, town office, post office and paging company. Now Unity isn't exactly a hotbed of illegal and/or terrorist activity, but I've asked folks to try to be a bit stealthly so a) the cops aren't called on them as they wander to and fro (because quite frankly some folks would rather call 911 when they see suspicious activity rather than ask folks what they are doing) and b) while my match container isn't wicked expensive I did take some time to glue on super-magnets and I don't relish replacing this cache time after time.

I think with a cache like this the time we are often stealthy - signing the log - may be the downfall. Let's say one cacher comes, looks around, grabs the cache, then creeps off to a corner, does his thing then re-hides it - that seems suspicious to me. But, if he were to just take the cache and openly sign the log, for any interested party to watch - they may better understand what we are doing is harmless. Just a theory. :rolleyes:

WhereRWe?
08-12-2007, 07:14 AM
On the other hand, truthfully telling them what you were doing also tells them that you are not there to whatever weird stuff they are looking to do, while avoiding the subject may make them think you are just not sure what they are there for.


I agree! We were searching for a LPC in a mall parking lot (before opening time) and had a security guard pull up. We were up front with him, and he's now a geocacher! LOL!

I'm a great fan of caches at roadside rest areas, as I think drivers need to take occasional breaks. We often grab a cache, grab a cold drink from the cooler, and spend several minutes in the rest area "unwinding". :D :D

Sudonim
08-12-2007, 09:17 PM
And then there's the Fitz cache. . . .:rolleyes: :eek: :D

That was one cache where folks clearly had other thoughts on their mind when they asked what I was doing and didn't stay long to hear my explanation of geocaching . . . odd that they weren't all that interested, eh?
When I was there, there were a few others there. I think they were trying to find a place to hide some micros:p

d’76
08-12-2007, 09:26 PM
When I was there, there were a few others there. I think they were trying to find a place to hide some micros:p

Is that what they call it these days:p

firefighterjake
08-13-2007, 08:13 AM
On the other hand, truthfully telling them what you were doing also tells them that you are not there to whatever weird stuff they are looking to do, while avoiding the subject may make them think you are just not sure what they are there for.

And the worst case, it's gets plundered and helps the cache owner understand this may not be an easy place to keep a cache.

Actually I did tell them . . . and they very quickly moved on since their interest was not my interest and vice versa. :D

firefighterjake
08-13-2007, 08:16 AM
I think with a cache like this the time we are often stealthy - signing the log - may be the downfall. Let's say one cacher comes, looks around, grabs the cache, then creeps off to a corner, does his thing then re-hides it - that seems suspicious to me. But, if he were to just take the cache and openly sign the log, for any interested party to watch - they may better understand what we are doing is harmless. Just a theory. :rolleyes:

I concur . . . this is what I do on some urban caches . . . the biggest thing I do however that is stealthy is to glance around and just make sure folks aren't watching as I retrieve the cache container. As for writing in the log, I'll usually do it right where I am and then glance around to make sure folks aren't watching as I replace it . . . and if someone questions me I'll be right up front with them.