Well, we've got the snow!! :D :D :D

So whos organizing the winter campouts???? :confused: :confused: :confused:

hmmm,, Winter camping again........ Now I just need kids winter camping gear, some cold winter dog gear and I am all set. I wonder if Ethan would have fun with it? And the bigger question would his Mom let me take him?

I just need to wait till after Christmas I think. Let's plan something for January. All we need is a campsite on a woodlot.:rolleyes:

This summer, thanks to a few Geocaching friends, I learned to love "real" (that means without the hard side or pop up camper) again. My daughter actually got me started when we went to the 2006 Kayak event.:D

Now, memories of winta camping with my kids in High School are not so bright. I was the only "Mom" with over 30 kids.:eek: They dug their little holes popped their tents in and I was worried - would I be warm enough at night?:confused: And then..........

As night fell, I was informed the "chaprones" were not tenting but rather being allowed to use a camp on the land where we were billeted.:) The First Aid station was in the camp. So, although I got cold and wet throught the day on our cross country ski adventures - my night after the campfire was warm and snuggly.;)

Soooooo, although I am getting to love camping and will certainly go some more this summer.....I will maybe, enjoy, some day time things this winter. You all, enjoy! As I know you all can and wil!;)

If you are thinking of a spot, let me know. A couple of us are thinking of camping out in the very near future and would be glad to test out an area if it's not too far away. We won't have time to plan a big campout or event and it may be on a weekday. I am sorry, but I have no more details than that. TAT starts working weekends soon and wants to get in a winter campout.

Now, when planning the big one... I'll help, but please avoid these dates if at all possible:
January 27th (Celebrate 2007 Event)
February 9th to 23rd (I'll be in Guatemala)

I only work 2 days a week and work still gets in the way! I'm free the rest of the year, next year I'll be working Friday and Saturday night, all night. It sure would be nice to get out now that we have all this snow!

Alrighty! We have the snow! we have the people! now we need the spot... :confused: :confused:

What about the Maine Wilderness Camps in Topsfield (East of Lincoln)?:confused:

That's where the 2007 Tread Lightly Event was based. They have a lake (icefishing), logging trails (snowmobiling, xc skiing and snowshoeing), they have large open areas (snowman building contests), and they're real Mainahs (open year round!).:cool:

Do they have a Marriott and a Sushi bar?

Don't they have some cabins? That would be nice :D

What about the Maine Wilderness Camps in Topsfield (East of Lincoln)?:confused:

That's where the 2007 Tread Lightly Event was based. They have a lake (icefishing), logging trails (snowmobiling, xc skiing and snowshoeing), they have large open areas (snowman building contests), and they're real Mainahs (open year round!).:cool:

I'll be ready to go there in January.

.. a Sushi bar?

Smelt Sushi!

We should do a scouting trip first, the last weekend of this month?

Don't they have some cabins? That would be nice :D

yeah they do have a couple of cabins i think they sleep 5 to 10 people (unstacked) :D

I'll be ready to go there in January.

so does that mean youre not allowed to go up there with us?? :p

I am ready for some winter camping. However I have a commitment for Saturday the 29th that's all. That kinda pushes it into January doesn't it:D :rolleyes: ;)

I am ready for some winter camping. However I have a commitment for Saturday the 29th that's all. That kinda pushes it into January doesn't it:D :rolleyes: ;)

heh... scratch that comment... i somehow read your first comment as... "I'm already going there in January".... :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Is January 6th too early?:confused:
That's the 12th (and last day) of Christmas; why not celebrate under the stars in the snow!?:D

See how things are looking between now and then.

I will open up my woods out behind the house. I have 17 acres. There is a tote road everyone could snowshoe down and we could find places to put up tents. If anyone gets to cold they could snowshoe back up to my house.

That's a very generous offer.

That's a VERY generous offer. So....How many people can be in your sauna at one time? Do you keep the hot tub going this time of year? How many feet of extension cord will I need to bring to run an electric blanket? And does Sushi last ok in really cold weather, like today?

That's a VERY generous offer. So....How many people can be in your sauna at one time? Do you keep the hot tub going this time of year? How many feet of extension cord will I need to bring to run an electric blanket? And does Sushi last ok in really cold weather, like today?

Sauna?? Hot Tub??? Sushi?? now *THAT"S* an event!! :D I hear Brdad **loves** sushi!! I'll even bring some!:p :p

That's a VERY generous offer. So....How many people can be in your sauna at one time? Do you keep the hot tub going this time of year? How many feet of extension cord will I need to bring to run an electric blanket? And does Sushi last ok in really cold weather, like today?

Heee, heeee - I had my hot tub ready to go at the Apres event in September and everyone was to busy sitting around the campfire......;)

Rick and Tink are great a host and hostess - they are very generous!

Well, I've determined that the Maine Wilderness Camps in Topsfield bring back memories of the Jeep for Hiram, which he's still tearing over:( ; and I'm feeling like organizing an event there in 2 weeks without Hiram's help is just not possible!:o Hiram has event superpowers that few other cachers posess...:rolleyes:
But I think Rick and Tink are definately event superheros and can pull off a fun winter camping experience in their backyard, if they so choose. :D :cool:
So, my idea, posted here to be shot down or carried, is that we have a camping event at Rick's January 6th, with an optional early start Friday the 5th for us 2-night campers:D :D :D

Well, I've determined that the Maine Wilderness Camps in Topsfield bring back memories of the Jeep for Hiram, which he's still tearing over:( ; and I'm feeling like organizing an event there in 2 weeks without Hiram's help is just not possible!:o Hiram has event superpowers that few other cachers posess...:rolleyes:
But I think Rick and Tink are definately event superheros and can pull off a fun winter camping experience in their backyard, if they so choose. :D :cool:
So, my idea, posted here to be shot down or carried, is that we have a camping event at Rick's January 6th, with an optional early start Friday the 5th for us 2-night campers:D :D :D

Yes I too like to go for two nights, but I would feel it a bit much there at Rick's. At a campground would be one thing. Keep in mind we still have to have little things planned for like bathrooms, etc. The wilderness camps are just so far to go after work. I do like the idea of a twelfth night camping trip. We just need to iron out the details. Myself and the heaters I mean dogs will be ready to go.

The following is from the website of Recompence Shores Camping area in Freeport:



Winter Camping

Recompence offers a unique winter camping experience for groups or individuals. While many sites are closed for the winter months, our protected sites will remain open for this wonderful opportunity. Winter camping is done by reservation only. Tent sites are $20.00 per night. Cottages are $80-$85 per night and this includes wood. Remember, there are no showers or running water and this is primitive camping. Email us for more information.

That sounds like a great area to camp in,wish I was there.

The following is from the website of Recompence Shores Camping area in Freeport:



Winter Camping

Recompence offers a unique winter camping experience for groups or individuals. While many sites are closed for the winter months, our protected sites will remain open for this wonderful opportunity. Winter camping is done by reservation only. Tent sites are $20.00 per night. Cottages are $80-$85 per night and this includes wood. Remember, there are no showers or running water and this is primitive camping. Email us for more information.

Dude, Bangor to Topsfield is the same time as Bangor to Freeport....:p
But if it's $20 INCLUDING wood than it'd be a better deal than MWC...:cool:

Dude, Bangor to Topsfield is the same time as Bangor to Freeport....:p
But if it's $20 INCLUDING wood than it'd be a better deal than MWC...:cool:

However it is much closer for you and Karen. And I can make it faster since it all interstate. Life is good. I want to do MWC this winter too. Charlotte will have to have her Jock fix sometime over the winter.

However it is much closer for you and Karen. And I can make it faster since it all interstate. Life is good. I want to do MWC this winter too. Charlotte will have to have her Jock fix sometime over the winter.

Well, we'll let Rick and Karen respond. If not by end of next week, then I say we head north. :cool:

I sent the campground an email asking pertinent questions. Lets keep this place in mind, OK.

Weekend in January is out for me and probably tenting anyway - ohhh the back but I will watch. Would love to enjoy a 2fer sometime this weekend and if the place had a cabin - well, I could probably do it and make a stew, french toast and enjoy your campfire!

Do you have a date yet?

Well don't revolve around me. I was hoping Vic would do his event again this year. I could snowmobile to it again if I am not working.

If it is in Topsfield I will not go for sure. I probably would not spend the night but that is not for sure either. I started another project again. I am writing another book and it needs to be done by the beginning of February or maybe mid February.

If it was a weekend that I am free and close I might show up or even spend the night.

The reason I offered my place is because I know I could attend if it was here. :)

Like I said don't revolve this around me. If you want to go to Topsfield then go there. I know I will not drive that far. Go with what the group wants. I can not believe you have not had more replies on this yet.

I have some suggestions though.

If I was going to host a winter overnighter these are some of the things I would do.

I would have it someplace central so people did not have to drive to far. The more central it is the more people will attend and the more fun it will be.

I would hold it at a place where there was a hill kids could come for the day and do some down hill sledding.

I would have a fire pit with a good size fire going where people could gather around and get warm and socialize.

I would have it at a place where people coming for the day could park there cars and not have to walk very far at all. It is hard to keep little kids wanting to go when they have to walk to far.

Have plenty of hot coco, apple cider, coffee and snacks for the kids.

Have extra blankets for people to wrap around them if they need extra warmth.

These are just a few ideas that I have to offer.

Do you have a date yet?

Well don't revolve around me. I was hoping Vic would do his event again this year. I could snowmobile to it again if I am not working.
. . .

I was kind of hoping the same thing . . . I enjoyed my little sledding misadventure last year.

Yes Vic did a great job with the winter camp out last year. And Tom too.... This camping trip in 2 weeks I thought was just that. A camping trip with whomever wanted to go. It was never planned to be an event as far as I was concerned. I just wanted to do more winter camping this year, and I know there are others who feel the same way. Isn't that right Aaron, Stef, Karen and Tom.;) :rolleyes:

right on Brad.
Ok Rick, and the date I proposed, but we don't have to stick to is January 6th.
I'm going to think more about it after Christmas.:cool:

Do you need a 4x4 to get in to the campground in topsfield? My new car has less clearance then the van did. I might be able to go just need to know if I have my grandson or not. My daughter will not let me take my grandson on a winter camping trip. Need to convice her that he will live through it if I could just figure out how. She thinks he is too young and it is too cold.

I'd go every weekend, if I could! :) :)

I just got word that my schedule has changed and I may have weekends free in early January, so I'd like to go either Jan 4/5, 5/6; or even next weekend for any two days from Friday through New Years day.

Last year, we had a small advance group try out the camp before hand. That worked out nicely because we were better able to plan for more people. Of course, that was a published event and we had to have more organization than a non-event.

As far as selecting a site, the most important things to be sure of ahead of time are:
- parking. You don't want to be towed, and you don't want to have search and rescue trying to figure out if there are lost hikers in the woods. Some places require shuttling cars, like Blackwoods CG in Mount Desert.
- wood. A fire is nice, but the wood supply has to be planned, you can't gather it the way you do in summer. For two days, a 1/4 cord is not much but, we don't NEED any. I vote for more, not less!!
- access. We may need to shuttle people if fwd/high clearance is required.
- Distance/Terrain I think for most of us here, the distance needs to be no more than 2 miles and flat or slightly downhill on the way in.
- Toilets. We should always practice leave no trace, so if there are no other provisions, we should at least bring a few “wag bags”.
- Stuff to do!

So, here's what I know about possible places:

Blackwoods CG Mount Desert:
Distance, about 1 mile, climb 100 feet then descend 115 feet. Wood and porta-pot available. Wood needs to be split. Parking is very limited, so cars need to be shuttled. There are caches to be found, and lots of trails nearby.

Maine Wilderness Camps:
Don't know much about this. How far is the hike in? It looks like it's just across the lake. Do they supply wood? There is a cache at Trout Pond, 450 feet climbing, 2 miles in! There is also my newly adopted cache, Squish, Squash, Look at That, Oh my Gosh; 850 feet climbing, 2 miles in. Both caches are “not winter friendly”

Flying Point CG: Brad, did you get a response back?

Rick’s backyard: Very easy and more open to everyone!

There are lots of other places, like Mt. Blue State Park, Rangeley Lake State Park, Vic’s place (if we’re invited back) but I think these 4 are enough to choose from!

we could all do a snowshoe hike up tumbledown and camp out up there. :D

Me thinks you would need crampons and some good rope this time of year.....:)

we could all do a snowshoe hike up tumbledown and camp out up there. :D

Don't tease us, if you're not serious. :) I would love to go up there. I'm not sure you know this, but there is/was a snowmobile trail that ends just above the lake. This is very doable and would be a blast!! Not sure about camping rules up there, but people camp there all the time during the summer.

Yes Vic did a great job with the winter camp out last year. And Tom too.... This camping trip in 2 weeks I thought was just that. A camping trip with whomever wanted to go. It was never planned to be an event as far as I was concerned. I just wanted to do more winter camping this year, and I know there are others who feel the same way. Isn't that right Aaron, Stef, Karen and Tom.;) :rolleyes:

What about me? I know I didn't make the winter camping event last year, but that was beyond my control. And besides where were you on the -10 below night we spent out there, checking things out. Now that was fun!!

we could all do a snowshoe hike up tumbledown and camp out up there. :D

Oh, that would be so much fun! Isn't there a shelter at the base?

I'm just dreaming about camping anyways. Still no car and not hope of having one this week.

My Uncle plotted a trail up the back side of Tumbledown. There is a dirt road that starts west of the mountain and circles north to the top.
(I just usually bomb up the Brook trail, but not with ice everywhere!)

Me thinks you would need crampons and some good rope this time of year.....:)

nahhhh, safety equipment is for those without good health insurance... :rolleyes: i did about 3/4 of it in conditions like this a couple years ago... didnt finish cuz a sno storm rolled in... sure it took me about 4x as long and it was even harder goin down cuz of the ice (at one point i just did a belly flop and slid part of the way... good fun) :D :D

Don't tease us, if you're not serious. :) I would love to go up there. I'm not sure you know this, but there is/was a snowmobile trail that ends just above the lake. This is very doable and would be a blast!! Not sure about camping rules up there, but people camp there all the time during the summer.

last time i went up in the winter i passed a couple people coming down that spent the night up there.... possiblities... :D

... Isn't there a shelter at the base? ...

I think the shelter was torn down when they prohibited camping there a few years ago. The easier way up is on the opposite side of the mountain.

. . . (at one point i just did a belly flop and slid part of the way... good fun) :D :D

Hiram . . . the "human otter?"

Look out Marvel and DC, there's a new superhero in town . . . Hiram the Human Otterman . . . vanquishing the world of evil one belly slide at a time. ;):D

Mainiac said had the idea of looking into a camping spot near Canton for before/after this weekend's event...we'll see! :) :p

I think I'm hearing folks saying they really just want to get out in the snow; I don't think we need to make the camping trip(s) "events" necessarily; so I think we're waiting on leaders to emerge and get some details from the "campgrounds". Anyway, continue posting thoughts, whole or otherwise. :cool:

...I don't think we need to make the camping trip(s) "events" necessarily; so I think we're waiting on leaders to emerge and get some details from the "campgrounds". ...

Ok, if all we need is some direction, How about this:

Place: Recompense Campground
Date: Friday and Saturday nights, January 4 and 5, 2008 (leaving Sunday)
Weather prediction: Lows 15F.
Snow cover: snowshoes and/or skis.

It willl not be an event (not enough notice).
Everyone is welcome.

That sounds like a plan Tom!

what time will you be getting into Freeport on Friday?

A couple of us were talking about going to western Maine to take advantage of Kacky's event in Canton. It is working with the Androscoggin Land Trust people. I thought it might be nice to show our support there. Whatever works I guess. There is a campground in Bethel that's open all year.

Ok, if all we need is some direction, How about this:

Place: Recompense Campground
Date: Friday and Saturday nights, January 4 and 5, 2008 (leaving Sunday)
Weather prediction: Lows 15F.
Snow cover: snowshoes and/or skis.

It willl not be an event (not enough notice).
Everyone is welcome.

I e-mailed them 2 weeks ago and never heard back. I inquired about group sites, rates, and wood supply. I had thought this might be a good place to stay when Gary has his snowshoe event next month. Just a thought.:)

completely forgot about the event!

Mt. Blue state park (Webb Lake) is a lot closer and they are actively campaigning to get people to camp there! http://www.maine.gov/doc/parks/pdf/wintersouth.pdf

I called Recompense Campground on the phone. They did not have all the answers, but said they would get back to me on the price of the wood and the site(s). It will probably about $25 per site.

I e-mailed them 2 weeks ago and never heard back. I inquired about group sites, rates, and wood supply. I had thought this might be a good place to stay when Gary has his snowshoe event next month. Just a thought.:)

If all goes as I am planning. The snowshoe event will be Feb 2 at Bradbury Mtn State Park. They have winter tent sites. I am trying to play phone tag with them this week. Hope to publish the event by next week.

Just so everyone sees the link between these threads. Vic posted in the "Still Alive" thread that he's alive and well and wants to have a camping event like last year, but he needs help.

I need to regroup with Hiram, but I'm sure we'll be able to help out in some way. :)

Update on Mount Blue State Park this weekend:

I talked with the park today. The road is not plowed, so the hike is 1 mile from the parking. The access is along the road into the park and is a gentle 200' descent. There is plenty of room to park 4 cars. We have to bring our own firewood. There is an outhouse! There is also a lean-too shelter.

Their number is: (207) 585-2261

Update on Mount Blue State Park this weekend:

I talked with the park today. The road is not plowed, so the hike is 1 mile from the parking. The access is along the road into the park and is a gentle 200' descent. There is plenty of room to park 4 cars. We have to bring our own firewood. There is an outhouse! There is also a lean-too shelter.

Their number is: (207) 585-2261


ok, so,

1) Whos bringing the wood
2) do we need to call ahead?

ok, so,

1) Whos bringing the wood
2) do we need to call ahead?

Great Tat, Hiram and I will call Jake and see if he's coming or can at least get us wood for at least Saturday night. :)

I do believe that there is a fee per person. Is it $10. Last year they mentioned it to me. Does anyone know if the lake is frozen over?

ok, so,

1) Whos bringing the wood
2) do we need to call ahead?

I am going to bring some, enough for at least a limmited fire on Friday. I can't bring as much as we had last year! If anyone else wants to bring in more, even better.

The park wants me to call tomorrow and let them know the plate number of each of the cars we park. If you're planning to come, please pm me your plate number and I'll let them know.

I am going to bring some, enough for at least a limmited fire on Friday. I can't bring as much as we had last year! If anyone else wants to bring in more, even better.

The park wants me to call tomorrow and let them know the plate number of each of the cars we park. If you're planning to come, please pm me your plate number and I'll let them know.

I don't know my plate number by memory. Maybe if work is slow tomorrow, I'll PM ya :)

GOCACHR of course

GOCACHR of course


Really??? I guess that's what dyslexia can do, I thought it was geocachr with an e...:confused:

Really??? I guess that's what dyslexia can do, I thought it was geocachr with an e...:confused:

i dont think maine has plates with 8 letters yet...

Great Tat, Hiram and I will call Jake and see if he's coming or can at least get us wood for at least Saturday night. :)

Hi ya Steph . . . got your phone message late last night . . . if you really want to dig through 3 feet of snow for slab wood or junk wood that I cut up a few years back you can do so . . . other than that and some scrap wood I don't have any firewood kicking around since I don't heat with wood. :(

If you're not choosey and have a saw a lot of times you can get free hardwood pallets at local stores for free . . . another option would be to check any local sawmills which might have some free softwood slabs.

Sorry . . . my "woods operation" is more of a summer-time set-up. :D ;)

No problem Jake, This is Maine, I'm sure there's some wood to be had without too much effort. I googled "firewood Maine Dixfield". Got a lot of hits, some of them were, well, not at all what I expected. :)

No problem Jake, This is Maine, I'm sure there's some wood to be had without too much effort. I googled "firewood Maine Dixfield". Got a lot of hits, some of them were, well, not at all what I expected. :)

Now if you had hit me up for some wood this summer. . . . well that would be a different story.

Great Tat, Hiram and I will call Jake and see if he's coming or can at least get us wood for at least Saturday night. :)

Oh yeah . . . forgot to mention . . . got your e-mail this a.m. I will be out sledding this weekend . . . my brother-in-law might be coming up so I will not be camping.

uh...wood...how can I say this delicately...:rolleyes:

Tat, I guess you're in charge of finding fire wood, we'll be around to help haul it into the site though! We'll see what we can do Saturday in preperation for Saturday night necessities, I guess. :)

I'm off to Dick's soon :D

I will get wood. The local food store in Old Town was a bit pricey, but I'm sure we'll do better along the way. I plan on getting as much as I can fit in my car. That should get us through the night. We can get more on Sat.

I will get wood. The local food store in Old Town was a bit pricey, but I'm sure we'll do better along the way. I plan on getting as much as I can fit in my car. That should get us through the night. We can get more on Sat.


and my sled is plenty big enough to haul a few loads of wood in, I'd be more than willing to let you borrow it... ;) :D

Remember, whoever hauls the wood gets warmer!

If you find a wood source tomorrow give us a call and we can pick some up along the way.

Remember, whoever hauls the wood gets warmer!


and he who sits around the campsite gets toastier!! :D

eh... wait a min... oh yeah... it's a state park... :(

Sure I'll help ya haul the wood!!! :D

and he who sits around the campsite gets toastier!! :D

eh... wait a min... oh yeah... it's a state park... :(

Sure I'll help ya haul the wood!!! :D

I dunno, I think we should have medical attention handy...:rolleyes: ;) :D

I am thinking about coming up but am waiting to find out if I am need to babysit the grandkid. His mom will not let me take him camping in the winter yet.

I might swing by for a bit and visit if I can find some free time. Does someone have the coordinates or a map so I know where to go if I can make it?

uh...wood...how can I say this delicately...:rolleyes:

Tat, I guess you're in charge of finding fire wood, we'll be around to help haul it into the site though! We'll see what we can do Saturday in preperation for Saturday night necessities, I guess. :)

I'm off to Dick's soon :D

Oh my :eek: . . . didn't realize what I wrote before.

... Does someone have the coordinates ...
44 40.835
70 26.793

I dunno, I think we should have medical attention handy...:rolleyes: ;) :D

I'm bringing some Screechin' Hot Apple Cider, for medicinal purposes only.

44 40.835
70 26.793
Thanks Tom. I know where you are talking about now. I am assuming that parking is at the entrance to the park. I will see what I can do but it is 4:30 in the morning now and I have not gone to bed yet.

And it will be FREE. For those of you who will be coming to the " Grab your Snowshoes " event on Feb 2. Bradbury Mountain State Park has allowed us to winter camp for the event. The event has been posted. Please email, call, PM, or post on the event page as to your intentions, as they will need prior notice of those camping overnight. The cache page has the link to the park.

Thanks Tom. I know where you are talking about now. I am assuming that parking is at the entrance to the park. I will see what I can do but it is 4:30 in the morning now and I have not gone to bed yet.

Sorry you couldn't make it Rick:( , but it was a real hike in or should I say out, cause out it was uphill!:eek: But it was worth it!:) We had a shelter for cooking and we dug out the fire pit, which was brick! Everyone left dry and safe :cool: Can't wait for the next trip! (Which if it's not an improptu on the 19th will be T2H event on the 2nd :D


And it will be FREE. For those of you who will be coming to the " Grab your Snowshoes " event on Feb 2. Bradbury Mountain State Park has allowed us to winter camp for the event. The event has been posted. Please email, call, PM, or post on the event page as to your intentions, as they will need prior notice of those camping overnight. The cache page has the link to the park.

Can't wait T2H!!:D Aaron's really worn from dragging our sled out this past weekend, what a trooper! :cool:

Sorry you couldn't make it Rick:( , but it was a real hike in or should I say out, cause out it was uphill!:eek: But it was worth it!:) We had a shelter for cooking and we dug out the fire pit, which was brick! Everyone left dry and safe :cool: Can't wait for the next trip! (Which if it's not an improptu on the 19th will be T2H event on the 2nd :D
I could not make it Saturday because the web server was having some issues that needed my attention and I was on the internet all day working on the server.

I was in the area of Weld today. I was pretty close to the park on my snowmobile and I was thinking about coming buy one my sled but it was sometime after lunch and I figured you all had left by then so I did not bother.

We were out before lunch.

I think we all had fun, 7 the first night and 4 the 2nd night.

Here are some random thoughts, in case we decide to come back some other time:

We found firewood at Camp Laroweld at the north end of the lake. There was enough parking for about 15 cars. The trail head in mainly used by snowmobilers, so cars need to be packed as close as posible. The shelter had one picnic table inside and several buried in snow outside. There was enough room to put up quite a few more tents, so perhaps as many as 10 tents could have fit. The trail is just under a mile on a groomed snowmobile trail and just less than a quarter mile of snowshoe/ski trail. There is one steep pitch that would be hard on skis. There are also many other sites, not near the shelter, so the park could handle a bigger group.