View Full Version : ATV trail tracks?



chief613
07-06-2008, 07:48 PM
are there any GPS tracks for ATV trails available. it would make combining a ride and caching easier

dí76
07-06-2008, 08:30 PM
are there any GPS tracks for ATV trails available. it would make combining a ride and caching easier

If you are looking for a good atv ride and cache run, Menace66's rails to trails caches are great. I didnt understand them much when I was doing them in a vehicle but when I got on the rails to trails on the atv it made much more sense. THat is a good run that you can do run Corrina to Dover and beyond

firefighterjake
07-07-2008, 07:45 AM
are there any GPS tracks for ATV trails available. it would make combining a ride and caching easier

You might find some individual clubs offer GPSed tracks available for download . . . but it would be a matter of contacting the various clubs and seeing if they have GPSed tracks available.

Every Club that is incorporated and funded by Maine's ATV Program should have a GPSed track of their trails . . . it's required to qualify for grants. However, not all may have them available for download . . . Maine's ATV program is still in its infancy . . . well maybe toddler stage right now . . . progress is being made, but it's slow.

Barring this . . . you might want to try asking for tracks to a specific area at various BBS sites such as this one . . . for example Brdad has some tracks from a few years back. Sites such as ATVTime.com, ATVAlliance.com, etc. may also have members with tracks that they can send to you.

chief613
07-07-2008, 07:18 PM
If you are looking for a good atv ride and cache run, Menace66's rails to trails caches are great. I didnt understand them much when I was doing them in a vehicle but when I got on the rails to trails on the atv it made much more sense. THat is a good run that you can do run Corrina to Dover and beyond
Thanks, i was actually lookin that over the other day, looks great. im assuming that the trails are flat gravel trails? Is it something that can be done in a day? or a weekend? sounds like fun

dí76
07-07-2008, 09:55 PM
Thanks, i was actually lookin that over the other day, looks great. im assuming that the trails are flat gravel trails? Is it something that can be done in a day? or a weekend? sounds like fun


If you got there kinda early and made casual day of caching out of it it would be lots of fun to do. It should only take a day and the trials are all very nice riding except in some places the trail is coal ash so if you are the 2nd or thrid guy you get real dusty. Bring something to cover your eyes and mouth.

firefighterjake
07-08-2008, 07:34 AM
Thanks, i was actually lookin that over the other day, looks great. im assuming that the trails are flat gravel trails? Is it something that can be done in a day? or a weekend? sounds like fun

Flat . . . and boring . . . (but then again it's probably because I've done this ride so many times). As Dave said most of the trail is gravel . . . your best bet as Dave also mentioned is to get there early and if you're in a group volunteer to be the leader or make sure you have good eye protection . . . some folks also wear dust masks since this trail kicks up a lot of dust.

The trail can easily be done in less than a day and if you're caching as you go it will break up the ride and provide some naturally occuring breaks for any non-geocachers in the group.

There are several places to eat at trail's end in Dover-Foxcroft. I often gas up at Irvings and eat at the Bear's Den.

----

There are a few other places that you can ride and cache as well . . . you just won't nab as many caches. A good, long ride can be done from the Airline Snack Bar to Grand Lake Stream. EMSDanel has placed a cache in Grand Lake Stream . . . and depending on your route to and from the town you can grab some caches along the way (at least one was placed by EvilHomer).

There are also a lot of caches along ATV trails in the County . . . honestly while I haven't been all over Maine riding in the County is one of my favorite places to ride. It's a long ride (even from where I live), but it is well worth the time. My only issue is when I get there I'm always torn by my desire to do as much ATVing and as much geocaching as I can . . . there's just not enough time to do both.

And of course I've got to mention that if you're not a mileage hound you can grab two or three caches if you're riding in the Troy/Jackson area as I've got a few caches located off the trails here.

hollora
07-08-2008, 08:00 PM
ORCAs - calling all ORCAs - will there be - WILL there be a Tread Lightly Event this year? When, where, pleassseeee - let us know. I am anxiously awaiting to know as I have the 4 runner and Jake taught me what it might do. Pleasssseee!

chief613
07-08-2008, 08:02 PM
Flat . . . and boring that's actually what I'm lookin for, new to tail riding, is there any restrictions for 2 people on a one up machine, i have heard there are some in other part of the country and some trail systems. Thanks for the additional info, sounds great

Hiram357
07-08-2008, 08:06 PM
ORCAs - calling all ORCAs - will there be - WILL there be a Tread Lightly Event this year? When, where, pleassseeee - let us know. I am anxiously awaiting to know as I have the 4 runner and Jake taught me what it might do. Pleasssseee!

Fear not, there is stuff in the works, but it probably won't happen until sept due to unforseen cricumstances

hollora
07-08-2008, 08:13 PM
Oh - I think I heard September as a whisper......please do tell..........not in conflict with the Commond Ground Fair, I hope, but since that is my BD - maybe I should offer to bring a cake if it is later??

dí76
07-08-2008, 08:56 PM
Flat . . . and boring that's actually what I'm lookin for, new to tail riding, is there any restrictions for 2 people on a one up machine, i have heard there are some in other part of the country and some trail systems. Thanks for the additional info, sounds great

Leave it to Jake for not paying attenion:p. I knew exactly what you where looking for. You will enjoy this ride and especially with a rider. Connie rides on the back of my atv all the time. This trail would be a great starter. The other good one would be the Rail bed form Lagrange to Schoodic for a swim and a great veiw of Mt. Katadin. Bring a lunch. Round trip is about 53 miles. We should all plan a day trip or even a Friday trip. Let me know, I'm game.

Saint367
07-08-2008, 09:05 PM
I've GPS'd the major trails from Presque Isle to Van Buren and some of the links inbetween for my job and our ATV enforcement unit.

Hiram357
07-08-2008, 10:03 PM
Oh - I think I heard September as a whisper......please do tell..........not in conflict with the Commond Ground Fair, I hope, but since that is my BD - maybe I should offer to bring a cake if it is later??

don't worry, as soon as plans are final then the event will be posted.

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 08:11 AM
Flat . . . and boring that's actually what I'm lookin for, new to tail riding, is there any restrictions for 2 people on a one up machine, i have heard there are some in other part of the country and some trail systems. Thanks for the additional info, sounds great

Ah . . . you're a wise one Chief . . . always good to start out on easy trails and learn. Hopefully you also didn't make the newbie mistake and go out and buy the biggest, baddest ATV you could find. ;):D

Since you're a beginner then I would say the Newport to Dover trail would be perfect for you . . . there are actually some nice views in places (i.e. beside the lake in Newport) and thanks to Menace66's caches you will stop in some places that I never noticed before while cruising by on the ATV . . . definitely take the time to stop and check out his caches and views. As I said once you get past the Irvings in Dover (you have to drive over an old -- and high -- railroad bridge to get there -- but fear not as it is now well planked and has railings -- something it didn't have when I first rode this trail) you want to go behind Irvings and follow the trail until you reach the T-intersection . . . I would then recommend going right and heading down the trail to the Bear's Den for a nice lunch. A word of caution . . . while this trail is flat there may be wash-outs, bumps, potholes, etc. and at the start of the trail and in Dexter there are lots of road crossings so just exercise some caution.

In answer to your question . . . yes . . . you can ride two-up on a one-person ATV . . . it just throws the weight balance off a bit. Usually this isn't a real issue as long as you get used to the extra weight and compensate for it with regard to breaking, navigating uneven terrain, etc. I would assume you also have a back seat/compartment attached to the ATV since your rider would find riding on the hard plastic or little bit of the seat behind you quite hard . . . if so make sure the seat/compartment is secured well to the ATV. Some folks also add foot pegs to this seat/compartment for added comfort for the rider if they're short-legged.

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 08:16 AM
ORCAs - calling all ORCAs - will there be - WILL there be a Tread Lightly Event this year? When, where, pleassseeee - let us know. I am anxiously awaiting to know as I have the 4 runner and Jake taught me what it might do. Pleasssseee!

Don't be telling folks that I taught you what the 4Runner is capable of doing . . . it will make Hiram jealous and then he might be tempted to try to drive Medawisla's Scoobie Do in the same places. ;):D

. . . As Hiram mentioned he has plans in the works . . . I think he's tentatively calling the event "Tread Lightly 2009: I'm Calling Shotgun" and he was talking about hosting it in the Machias area possibly.

For anyone interested this event is really a lot of fun . . . the trails we go on are not so technical that you need a real rock crawler and loads of experience . . . but we do leave the tar and occasionally need to use the 4WD. For those without 4WD never fear . . . there's always plenty of room in the vehicles . . . and this is always a great way to nab some of those caches off the beaten path that would either require a long hike in or beat up a car's oil pan. Plus there's the added bonus of camping . . . and seeing me at an event. ;):D

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 08:19 AM
Oh - I think I heard September as a whisper......please do tell..........not in conflict with the Commond Ground Fair, I hope, but since that is my BD - maybe I should offer to bring a cake if it is later??

Most likely it will not be on the same weekend because Hiram and Medawisla often do the Commonground Event . . . well they did it last year . . . I had them camp out at my house . . . and the offer stands this year as well . . . in fact if memory serves me correctly there was some other cachers who were asking about camping and the Commonground Fair and I extended an invitation to them as well. When is the CGF anyways? By the way ol' Unity just got a lot "more" rural looking this past week as we've had a number of Amish move into the area . . . they have plans to start up a dairy farm, vegetable farm and even build a school for their children.

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 08:20 AM
Leave it to Jake for not paying attenion:p. I knew exactly what you where looking for. You will enjoy this ride and especially with a rider. Connie rides on the back of my atv all the time. This trail would be a great starter. The other good one would be the Rail bed form Lagrange to Schoodic for a swim and a great veiw of Mt. Katadin. Bring a lunch. Round trip is about 53 miles. We should all plan a day trip or even a Friday trip. Let me know, I'm game.

We should organize an ATV/geocaching trip sometime . . . this could be a lot of fun if folks came out. Does Dave and Gail still ride with you guys . . . haven't heard or seen them in some time . . . in fact I just thought of them the other day since I was considering heading to PEI for a mini-vacation.

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 08:24 AM
I've GPS'd the major trails from Presque Isle to Van Buren and some of the links inbetween for my job and our ATV enforcement unit.

Thank you for all that you guys do in the County . . . definitely one of my favorite places to ride.

I'll never forget my first riding experience in the County. Met up with a guy I met on-line from Washburn -- Roger Hewitt (aka Chief Wiggim.) Rog brought us up the RR line one day to Van Buren . . . when he turned on to the sidewalk I thought for sure he was going to get us in trouble . . . especially when a police officer drove by . . . but then the police officer just waved to us . . . such a different experience . . . such a nice experience. The next day we went down to Mapleton and the trails at Squa Pan. On other trips we have rode to Mars Hill and then further down to have lunch at the Blue Moose . . . trailered up to St. Agatha and rode to Fort Kent . . . can't say as though I've ever ridden on a bad trail in the County . . . in any season -- winter or summer.

dí76
07-09-2008, 09:29 AM
We should organize an ATV/geocaching trip sometime . . . this could be a lot of fun if folks came out. Does Dave and Gail still ride with you guys . . . haven't heard or seen them in some time . . . in fact I just thought of them the other day since I was considering heading to PEI for a mini-vacation.


Dave and Gail still ride. We have gone on some real nice rides the pst few weeks. They have been super busy with the house renovations and they have family here from PEI for the week.

I was thinking of heading up to the county somewhere on an atv ride but it would only be a day trip. If it was going to be just a day trip leaving from Bangor area, does anyone have any suggestions?

firefighterjake
07-09-2008, 09:34 AM
Dave and Gail still ride. We have gone on some real nice rides the pst few weeks. They have been super busy with the house renovations and they have family here from PEI for the week.

I was thinking of heading up to the county somewhere on an atv ride but it would only be a day trip. If it was going to be just a day trip leaving from Bangor area, does anyone have any suggestions?

Maybe some folks from the County could recommend some good trails. If I was just going up for a day trip I might unload somewhere in Houlton and ride up the trail to the Mars Hill area . . . maybe go a bit further to Presque Isle even. Mars Hill however is only open 7 a.m. to 7 p.m. on weekends.

Saint367
07-10-2008, 09:56 AM
Thank you for all that you guys do in the County . . . definitely one of my favorite places to ride.

I'll never forget my first riding experience in the County. Met up with a guy I met on-line from Washburn -- Roger Hewitt (aka Chief Wiggim.) Rog brought us up the RR line one day to Van Buren . . . when he turned on to the sidewalk I thought for sure he was going to get us in trouble . . . especially when a police officer drove by . . . but then the police officer just waved to us . . . such a different experience . . . such a nice experience. The next day we went down to Mapleton and the trails at Squa Pan. On other trips we have rode to Mars Hill and then further down to have lunch at the Blue Moose . . . trailered up to St. Agatha and rode to Fort Kent . . . can't say as though I've ever ridden on a bad trail in the County . . . in any season -- winter or summer.


Next time you're up in the Caribou area, let me know.

racatv
08-02-2008, 11:18 PM
We ride the Bingham trails and there are a lot of caches "off" of the trails, I like to "stay on the trails" so I don't do as many as I would like...plus I'm a passenger so I can't always convince racatv to stop for me.

chief613
08-03-2008, 08:46 AM
We ride the Bingham trails and there are a lot of caches "off" of the trails, I like to "stay on the trails" so I don't do as many as I would like...plus I'm a passenger so I can't always convince racatv to stop for me.
when you say off the trails, are they still within a couple hundred yard that one could walk. We are pretty new to trail riding, are the trails safe enough for 2 people on a one up machine and an aftermarket seat?Yesterday was our first trip with both of us on the machine, all was good:)
We did Dover Foxcroft to Newport yesterday, yes it is a "boring" trail, but nice scenery and a great place to pick up a bunch of caches and a comfortable ride, we had a great time

PS i did make a track from Rt2 in Newport to Irvings in DoverFoxcroft, but have no idea how to post it, if anyone is interested

racatv
08-03-2008, 05:57 PM
Well some are pretty far off but you can ride to them, I think you'ld be ok. There aren't a lot of rangers up there although i did see one last weekend. Fosters solitude was pretty far off but we rode right up to it, must do for the fall, bring a picnic, nice lunch spot. Deathwish was crazy, we rode to that one too, and it still is a spot we ride to everytime we go out, a very difficult dangerous cache but an awesome spot. Foss Pond was nice and there was a very fun micro right on the trail "Where are we are you lost placed a micro?" was the name. I liked that one. If you need camping/lodging info we've stayed all over the place up there, let me know. There are also some on the Binghan Rail trail too...very nice rail trail, I just don't remember their names. We also have GPS waypoints but I don't know how to send them out, maybe I could get racatv to help me but he's sort of getting aggrivated with me and this sport..is this also normal? Thanks..racatv..wife

racatv
08-03-2008, 06:04 PM
I didn't answer your question, yes everyone rides double up there. We do have a nice legal 2 up...which I HIGHLY recommend. But don't worry about any of that. We did 84 miles last Sat....and no caching...but had a great day. It is so awesome up there. We rode out of Abbot this time, very nice. Need more info let me know. racatvs...wife

dí76
08-03-2008, 06:15 PM
Well some are pretty far off but you can ride to them, I think you'ld be ok. There aren't a lot of rangers up there although i did see one last weekend. Fosters solitude was pretty far off but we rode right up to it

As much as I like to ride my ATV and it is very easy to not get caught I wouldnt recommend riding where you are not supposed to since all it will do is make it tougher one all of us later. ATVers already have enough of a bad reputation we dont need more laws making it tougher to have a nice ride. Stay on the marked trails and off the unmarked trails and with time the state will work with us and help us instead of make more laws to keep us at home. While you might not get caught you will leave tracks in the road or where ever that will tell the tale of irresponsible cachers/ ATVers. This is a bad idea and I am hoping that some of the other local cachers and ATVers will chime in here. Please stay on the marked trails.

Hiram357
08-03-2008, 07:07 PM
As much as I like to ride my ATV and it is very easy to not get caught I wouldnt recommend riding where you are not supposed to since all it will do is make it tougher one all of us later. ATVers already have enough of a bad reputation we dont need more laws making it tougher to have a nice ride. Stay on the marked trails and off the unmarked trails and with time the state will work with us and help us instead of make more laws to keep us at home. While you might not get caught you will leave tracks in the road or where ever that will tell the tale of irresponsible cachers/ ATVers. This is a bad idea and I am hoping that some of the other local cachers and ATVers will chime in here. Please stay on the marked trails.

which is how the ORCAs actualy got started, with the help of the Tread Lightly events (www.treadlightly.org (http://www.treadlightly.org)) :D

firefighterjake
08-06-2008, 07:18 AM
when you say off the trails, are they still within a couple hundred yard that one could walk. We are pretty new to trail riding, are the trails safe enough for 2 people on a one up machine and an aftermarket seat?Yesterday was our first trip with both of us on the machine, all was good:)
We did Dover Foxcroft to Newport yesterday, yes it is a "boring" trail, but nice scenery and a great place to pick up a bunch of caches and a comfortable ride, we had a great time

PS i did make a track from Rt2 in Newport to Irvings in DoverFoxcroft, but have no idea how to post it, if anyone is interested

In answer to your question . . . pretty much any trail here in Maine should be fine for two-up riding. While manufacturers do make ATVs specifically geared for two-up riding, with a little bit of skill most folks can and do ride two-up on a one-up ATV with an after-market seat. Most trails aren't so technical that they would make riding two-up in this manner dangerous . . . the biggest thing is watching your speed, watching the trail, etc.

bgrffdave
08-06-2008, 11:58 AM
The more you get out riding, the more you'll notice how many do ride two-up on "one-up only" machines. Everybody doesn't sell those add on "rest seats" for solo riders!! I would say the thing you need to be the most careful of is climbing a steep hill. With the extra weight of a second person on a one-up machine usually behind the rear axle there is more risk of going over backwards on a steep climb.

I did the complete opposite of what Jake suggests, because I'm not known for being very bright, and ended up with one of the biggest two-up machines for our first atv... an Outlander Max 800! :eek: Now while we'd never had atv's before, I've had motorcycles & dirtbikes since I was a kid and have actually taken off road classes, including an atv class, before. I tend to believe that one should buy a little bit bigger machine than they think they need right off the bat provided they have the maturity and training to go along with it. An 800 is certainly a monster and deserves a healthy bit of respect but MAN is it fun (and carries two with gear effortlessly)!! We wouldn't have gone that big had it not been for my wife finding one of those deals you just can't pass up online.

As a new rider I've been a little frustrated at how hard it is just to get maps of some places let alone GPS tracks. The map issue is slowly getting better. As far as GPS tracks go I'm not holding my breath. Clubs that I've spoken to are not real interested in sharing the raw GPS data. I guess I can't blame them though. I can think of a million reasons why I would be very leary of letting my track data go public. Although in truth it's not like we all couldn't go make our own tracks, combine forces, and make our own maps.

Did someone say group ride??

Hiram357
08-06-2008, 12:33 PM
Although in truth it's not like we all couldn't go make our own tracks, combine forces, and make our own maps.

Did someone say group ride??

That would definitely be fun! I think I've got some old tracks from some jeeping journeys around greenville area, and some of the ones around Mt. Pisgah, and the ORCA caches (except fort he wandering ORCA) are near some nice trails. As for the ATV rides, I would buy one, but I'm not sure how my landlord would feel about me keeping a wheeler on the deck... :rolleyes::rolleyes::D

bgrffdave
08-06-2008, 12:59 PM
Maybe you could work out a deal to do some plowing for your landlord :rolleyes:

I've got some tracks for rides we've done between Grand Lake Stream, Duck Lake/Nicatous/Upper Sabao, Deer & Eagle Lake, Mopang Lake, and the Airline Snack Bar in the last few weeks. The tracks don't cover all the trails in that area but would give someone a good idea of where the main ones are. These are some good trails with a fair amount of variety and nothing very hard... but... there aren't a ton of caches along the way.

bgrffdave
08-06-2008, 06:05 PM
Someone mentioned Menace66's rails to trails caches... is that a typo? I can't find that username on GC.com. I hadn't come across those yet but they sound interesting.

I've found lately that it's easier to go for an atv ride with caches for the area in my GPS, in case I get close to some, rather than try to specifically combine a cache and atv run. Good trail info (read maps or tracks) around my area, especially east, just isn't available to easily base a cache run on atv trails... but other areas are a different story. I've started to make maps just from riding and tracking on my own.

Take a look at www.atvmaine.org (http://www.atvmaine.org). That site lists club info by area, among a ton of other stuff, and often has links to a club's website. I've even found a couple club websites by searching the web for their name as ATV Maine didn't have a link yet. Many, but not all, clubs have maps online. BTW... if you haven't joined your local club you should consider it.

dí76
08-06-2008, 06:11 PM
Heres menaces profile. This should get you started

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e9e83039-196c-4d2a-a172-877685e23f8f&wid=39630a49-de20-4813-a0d9-109c4a8b1f43&ds=2

hollora
08-06-2008, 06:16 PM
Heres menaces profile. This should get you started

http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=e9e83039-196c-4d2a-a172-877685e23f8f&wid=39630a49-de20-4813-a0d9-109c4a8b1f43&ds=2

This family used to cache as menace66......they are now officially Maine Family. (Caps required and a space sensitive) Same folks, same caches/cache finds, different user ID. They have many out from Corinna right up through.

bgrffdave
08-06-2008, 06:51 PM
And the fog of confusion lifted, and there was light....

hollora
08-06-2008, 09:49 PM
And the fog of confusion lifted, and there was light....

20 years as a PI - maybe, a second career?;)

firefighterjake
08-07-2008, 07:41 AM
Someone mentioned Menace66's rails to trails caches... is that a typo? I can't find that username on GC.com. I hadn't come across those yet but they sound interesting.

I've found lately that it's easier to go for an atv ride with caches for the area in my GPS, in case I get close to some, rather than try to specifically combine a cache and atv run. Good trail info (read maps or tracks) around my area, especially east, just isn't available to easily base a cache run on atv trails... but other areas are a different story. I've started to make maps just from riding and tracking on my own.

Take a look at www.atvmaine.org (http://www.atvmaine.org). That site lists club info by area, among a ton of other stuff, and often has links to a club's website. I've even found a couple club websites by searching the web for their name as ATV Maine didn't have a link yet. Many, but not all, clubs have maps online. BTW... if you haven't joined your local club you should consider it.

Sounds like you're all set with Menace66/Maine Family . . . they've placed some great caches along the Newport to Dover-Foxcroft rail trail . . . quite a few of them actually. The one thing I noticed when I found these caches (all by walking instead of riding incidentally . . . even though I've been on this trail countless times by ATV) is that many of the spots they brought me to were views or spots I didn't notice when I was concentrating on driving the ATV. If you go however go early (ideally to catch the morning dew) or right after a rain storm as this trail gets very, very dusty (eye protection is definitely recommended.) I usually head up and eat at the Bear's Den before fueling up at the Irving and heading back . . . good half day ride.

firefighterjake
08-07-2008, 07:42 AM
That would definitely be fun! I think I've got some old tracks from some jeeping journeys around greenville area, and some of the ones around Mt. Pisgah, and the ORCA caches (except fort he wandering ORCA) are near some nice trails. As for the ATV rides, I would buy one, but I'm not sure how my landlord would feel about me keeping a wheeler on the deck... :rolleyes::rolleyes::D

Your landlord will never know . . . I mean how could he find out? Just park it up there and throw a cover over it . . . if he asks you can tell him it's a gas grill under the cover. ;):D

firefighterjake
08-07-2008, 07:44 AM
Maybe you could work out a deal to do some plowing for your landlord :rolleyes:

I've got some tracks for rides we've done between Grand Lake Stream, Duck Lake/Nicatous/Upper Sabao, Deer & Eagle Lake, Mopang Lake, and the Airline Snack Bar in the last few weeks. The tracks don't cover all the trails in that area but would give someone a good idea of where the main ones are. These are some good trails with a fair amount of variety and nothing very hard... but... there aren't a ton of caches along the way.

You know in all seriousness I use my ATV for both work and play . . . probably about 60/40% work/play ratio. For the past seven or eight years I've plowed my driveway with the ATV (you do learn to push the banks way back early in the year though since the ATV just doesn't have the weight to wing back the banks when they firm up), haul dirt/branches/firewood in the trailer and use it for a variety of other chores.

firefighterjake
08-07-2008, 07:57 AM
As much as I like to ride my ATV and it is very easy to not get caught I wouldnt recommend riding where you are not supposed to since all it will do is make it tougher one all of us later. ATVers already have enough of a bad reputation we dont need more laws making it tougher to have a nice ride. Stay on the marked trails and off the unmarked trails and with time the state will work with us and help us instead of make more laws to keep us at home. While you might not get caught you will leave tracks in the road or where ever that will tell the tale of irresponsible cachers/ ATVers. This is a bad idea and I am hoping that some of the other local cachers and ATVers will chime in here. Please stay on the marked trails.

Agreed . . . as tempting as it is to go off-trail in remote areas and think that just one ATV going off trail will not make much of a difference I try to tell folks that this just isn't the case.

Some examples of how just one ATV going off trail could possibly alter things.

A landowner has agreed to allow ATVs to use a portion of his land as a trail even though he has had some reservations about ATVs and their reputation for being rough on land (i.e. spinning, mudholes, etc.) He has asked that the ATVs stay on the trail system and not venture off trail since he has some seedlings, cropland, blueberry barrens, etc. on the property. Most every ATVer follows the rules . . . but one . . . and that is the one ATV that the landowner happens to see running over their seedlings, cropland, blueberries, etc. . . . before you know it the trail is closed and the club is back to square one to getting a re-route established.

Scenario #2: Same situation as the first but let's say there isn't even any valuable cropland, seedlings, etc. to worry about. The reluctant landowner however agrees to allow ATVs to cross his property on a trial basis. Once again, folks follow the rules to staying on trail, but the one ATVer that decides to take a shortcut across a field or by the owner's house is the one ATV spotted by the landowner . . . now the landowner begins to wonder if other ATVs aren't doing the same thing and before you know it the trail is closed.

The best way to get more trails here in Maine is to follow the rules and stay on the trail system. Yes, sometimes it is inconvenient, but because more and more folks are riding responsibly we're seeing more and more landowners agreeing to open their land to trails . . . here where I live we've had two landowners surprise us by allowing us to open a trail. Both were vehemently against ATVs -- and in fact one had a kid on an ATV trash his bucket loader years ago . . . but still he agreed to give us a chance. Since this one landowner owns a sizeable portion of land needless to say we're very quick to respond to his concerns when we hear of ATVs going off trail.

Some folks could say that things are different in a remote area. Maybe true . . . but once again it only takes one ATV doing the wrong thing to ruin the trail for everyone.

OK . . . enough preaching . . . I suspect that many of us (myself included) have in the past not known enough to stay on trails so we're all guilty . . . and as such no one should feel embarrassed or ashamed . . . it's all just part of the learning process and from what I've seen of the geocachers/ATVers here we're all pretty responsible for the most part and no one has ever intentionally done something wrong.