This is a reply to a post in this thread (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?p=55927#post55927). I take no issue with the original poster of this quote, I realize I am in the minority, but I have to very strongly but respectfully disagree.


Just think about how awesome it would be to achieve 100 caches in a day on the Kennebec river!! We have people talking/travelling to Maine to do the SMR. A Real challenge would be doing it on the water! :P Now That would get the geocaching world noticing Maine!!

I really don't think it's great for our image to have Maine recognized as the state you can do 100 caches in a day 10 different ways. And what kind of a challenge is it when we keep making it easier and easier? I think Maine has much more to offer than numbers.

Why not just put a 100 stage multi on the Kennebec and let cachers find it in as little or as much time as they desired? It would certainly separate those that wanted to do it for the enjoyment from those doing it for enjoyment of the numbers.

So how does everyone else think Maine should be viewed by the geocaching world??

I agree with you 100%. Just like our logo says "The way caching should be". I believe when Geocaching started it was not intended as a numbers game. It more intended as a fun spot as a take off from hide and seek. A game that would take you places that you would not normally go. It has seemed to evolve into a number game over the last few years. I don't believe that was its intention. This is jsut my opinion.

So how does everyone else think Maine should be viewed by the geocaching world??

Remember when there was a "Nashville style" of geocaching? I doubt if most of the newcomers know why it was a specific style, but it's now the standard everywhere - including Maine.

I prefer to think of Maine geocaching as being "the way it should be", "not the way it is everyplace else - only worse".

Sheesh!

First, let me say that I love this site and jump on it way too much, I also feel like I have buried my opinions for way too long. (The following is the opinion of Tracey Frost a.k.a. Fins2right only, This does not represent the opinion of the entire Frost family or it's representitives. :D) I use humor a lot and try hard to ignore the politics, but I cannot. A few weeks/months back a poster wrote "we use the title "The way Geocaching should be but it's really not anymore". :mad: Really? I almost folded up my tent and went away after reading that, but I didn't comment or complain. To use a title from an old drinking game "I'm calling Bull$*%@"


I really don't think it's great for our image to have Maine recognized as the state you can do 100 caches in a day 10 different ways. And what kind of a challenge is it when we keep making it easier and easier? I think Maine has much more to offer than numbers.



Why the heck not? Maine has a huge area to cache in and a variety of caches. Have we become so set in our way of thinking that we dismiss any other approach to Geocaching. Have we come to a point where we assume that people will only go after 100+ runs and ignore the rest? For shame.

When the SMR series came out I posted a thread "How busy could one man be?" It has received 203 replies to this date. I put it up to get more information and to express my appreciation. I cannot express how shocked I was that it turned negative on the first page. What :confused: Why? Read the logs, look at the joy that this series has brought to people. Why tear it down. If you do not like it, don't go. If you do not like that manner of caching, plant some new caches that require a long walk, drive, kayak, hike and advertise that. I did the SMR for 111 caches and loved it. I kayaked 5 miles round trip last night for 2 caches and woke up with blisters, loved it. Both are representitive of our state.

(p.s. when the views expressed on that thread went contrary to my intent, I did not close the thread. That's what conversation is all about)

A single "cookie cutter' approach to geocaching will only lead to it's demise. These aren't even two different things! People will pick thier manner of caching. They are not so silly that they need to be led around by thier noses.


I agree with you 100%. Just like our logo says "The way caching should be". I believe when Geocaching started it was not intended as a numbers game. It more intended as a fun spot as a take off from hide and seek. A game that would take you places that you would not normally go. It has seemed to evolve into a number game over the last few years. I don't believe that was its intention. This is jsut my opinion.

I grew up in Hampden, I was educated at the University of Maine. I had never, ever gone to the SMR until these caches came out, despite the fact that I was within rock throwing range. This game routinely takes me to places I have never gone, And I have a huge amount of fun going there no matter how many caches I grab along the way.

Everything about geocaching is good for the state of Maine. Look around, we have so little in the way of good jobs and have devolved into a tourist state. If caches like the SMR or the number of caches around say, Lewiston attracts people from away that is awesome! They buy gas, eat, shop, and get to see parts of the state that do not include the southern coast. I would be willing to bet that a store owner in Costigan would be thrilled to know that he is selling more gas due to geocaching.

So, why be critical? Is this geocaching? Darned right it is! Is caching in Maine better than most areas? I truly think so. Heck, I love Maine, but would move in a heartbeat if it were not for family. Lets face it, the climate isn't great. We get at best 8 weeks of summer. Businesses are leaving left and right. What do we have? Nature. Area's that are breathtaking to view and we need to sell that.



So how does everyone else think Maine should be viewed by the geocaching world??


I think that Maine should be known for things like GC149W5 ( A view of the lake) or GCGZ6M (One for the Loafers) Caches that take you on a journey for enjoyment and one smiley and for things like the SMR and the Eustis area. Eustis has 87 caches in the area doing a quick search. 87. Should we complain about that? I went back up for a week of camping and grabbed about 6 each day. Am I wrong in that? Should I stop?

OK, I've blown into a full rant and I'm sure that I will be excoriated for it. But I am so tired of listening to complaining. It's a big state. We do not have poison snakes and spiders to worry about, we do not have cockroaches living in ammo cans. We have so much to offer the outside world and if some cachers in Utah or Ohio want to come up and land 100+ caches in a day, why should we stop them. Better yet, why should we think less of them?

Don't like it? Again, come up with new caches that are the style that you champion and get them out there. I'll go find them and enjoy myself doing it. Or, advertise the ones out there that you find to be the "model" caches. Quit tearing down others for some percieved notion of "The way it was". Now let the bloodletting begin.

No bloodletting by me, I have no problem with your opinion. I was just asking a question. I may not agree with you or you with me, but that doesn't necessarily make either of us right. Gc.com has no rules against placing caches in this manner, nor does it have any rules against anyone finding them.

"The way caching should be." is very subjective at best. Obviously, any cache that is "found" represents a cacher that wanted to find it. No one was forced to find it nor is anyone required to find it. I think the variety is what attracts more cachers not some enigmatic phrase, "The way caching should be."

I also noticed that when a "full time" caching team came through Maine, they managed to find many of my park and grab caches and not one puzzle or "hiker." So what do you suppose, "The way caching should be." means to them? LOL

It may not be about the numbers to some but it surely is to others and I would like to think there are many of us that it is about both; can't keep finding them without the numbers going up.

As far as the "challenges" Making them to easy or to hard? hahahahaha What does it matter? The individual gets to choose how they wish to do a challenge if at all. I could have chosen for the Centum challenge to not log any caches with a terrain rating less than 3. Would that have lessened someone elses experience if they chose to do all rated 1 terrain caches. I'm not vain enough to think that my accomplishments in doing a challenge could diminish or undermine the efforts of another cacher nor will their effort reduce/diminish or embarrass my efforts. That is ludicrous. I'd be willing to bet that very few people even knew or remembered that I finished the Centum Challenge but I remember how much fun I had and to me, that is all that matters.

There is no final score. There are NOT going to be any losers. Taking into consideration the last two statements why are there such critical statements being made about the caches being placed?

No bloodletting by me, I have no problem with your opinion. I was just asking a question. I may not agree with you or you with me, but that doesn't necessarily make either of us right. Gc.com has no rules against placing caches in this manner, nor does it have any rules against anyone finding them.


I know. Brdad your use of tech is amazing and you are classy. I'm just upset with the overall, not the specific

I think one place I am being misinterpreted on is that I am not speaking out about any individual cache. When I do that and if I disapprove, it will have to be after I find that individual cache and will most likely be in a TNLN only log. If I think it's unsafe or otherwise bad for the sport, I might elaborate a bit or report it to gc.com. It's hard to judge any individual cache without being there or without otherwise knowing exactly what it is about.

However, I am against certain caching practices. I'd like to think many of us are, as in the case of moving caches, stealing TBs, taking something without leaving something, etc. It just so happens I am also against practices which promote organized competition and haste in caching.

Don't like it? Again, come up with new caches that are the style that you champion and get them out there. I'll go find them and enjoy myself doing it. Or, advertise the ones out there that you find to be the "model" caches. Quit tearing down others for some percieved notion of "The way it was".

I recently did place a cache in my style accessible from the SMR or Rt 9. I have had a few finders who all loved it as an individual cache, not because there were 30 more along the trail. I also got one email saying I was stupid for hiding another dumb puzzle cache. Go figure.

You'll also find I try and promote (in my opinion) quality caches, as is indicated in my Anatomy of a great cache hide (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1564) article (which my opinions in there still hold true), and I will give praise in many of my cache logs when I come across a unique or otherwise good quality cache.

I started this thread because it is a subject that concerns me and I wanted to know what others thought. Some people think the loss of TBs or too many puzzle caches are an issue, this is my issue.

I think one place I am being misinterpreted on is that I am not speaking out about any individual cache. When I do that and if I disapprove, it will have to be after I find that individual cache and will most likely be in a TNLN only log. If I think it's unsafe or otherwise bad for the sport, I might elaborate a bit or report it to gc.com. It's hard to judge any individual cache without being there or without otherwise knowing exactly what it is about.

However, I am against certain caching practices. I'd like to think many of us are, as in the case of moving caches, stealing TBs, taking something without leaving something, etc. It just so happens I am also against practices which promote organized competition and haste in caching.

Fair enough. You are definately entitled to like or not like. Why, though, would you advocate against what others obviously do like? If it has no impact on the way you "play" then why try to deter other from playing the way they want to play? You may like chess and I may like checkers, no matter how much you try to convince me that I'm wrong, impure and a detriment to board games in reality what does it matter, to you or me, if I play checkers.

When my checker playing does interfer with your chess game then I think you may gain more validity with me.

As far as the TB stealing or not swapping swag that has very little to do with caches that are being placed but more of an etiquette issue. The "moving caches" or the "geo-rallies" are all ways other cachers enjoy the sport and have no effect on me or other cachers that I can see.

Why did you start this thread? Hasn't this topic been beaten to death! You must be bored. I'm guessing the hot weather has given you another excuse to stay inside and NOT go out caching. This is nothing more than a single person on this website to find yet another way to voice a negative opinion.

Why?

Caching the way it should be......

Honestly, some of my favorite caches are not in Maine, but you do not see me taking shots at the beautiful state in which I live and cache. If you are not happy here with the way caches have been hidden. Either stop caching, or MOVE! Either way please stop posting negative threads.

Then that is were we are different. I do think it has an effect on the game to others. It is different than chess or checkers because it has many players and two sides - those creating the activity and those participating in it. Remember the FTF-A-Thon? I was against that, too. And it ended up showing cachers in a light that was not favorable, arguments between cachers, and while not the deciding factor, contributing to a good cacher leaving the game. I think as soon as you introduce competition in nearly any activity, it's common that in an effort to come out first the participants don't pay as much attention to the rules or laws and eventually creates a bad image of that activity.

Then that is were we are different. I do think it has an effect on the game to others. It is different than chess or checkers because it has many players and two sides - those creating the activity and those participating in it. Remember the FTF-A-Thon? I was against that, too. And it ended up showing cachers in a light that was not favorable, arguments between cachers, and while not the deciding factor, contributing to a good cacher leaving the game. I think as soon as you introduce competition in nearly any activity, it's common that in an effort to come out first the participants don't pay as much attention to the rules or laws and eventually creates a bad image of that activity.

An individual may place a cache but ultimately it would be MY responsibility to decide to find it or not. Not your responsibility to chose for me. As in chess and checkers there are many different individuals and as many different styles of play. If I want to play chess against Bobby Fischer then why do you think that in order to preserve the game of chess in your vision that you should advocate that I don't. What would it matter to you? Do you really care if Bobby Fischer and I sat down to a game of chess? (I also know that I'll never get to play him :( seeing how he died last year). My point is, why would anyone want to limit the number of choices available?

I'm not trying to convince you that you shouldn't feel strongly nor am I saying that you aren't entitled to your thought and feelings but I find some of your comments intimidating to new cachers. They have the right to make up their own minds without feeling scrutinized. It is NOT wrong to like micros, it is NOT wrong to have enjoyed a Centum challenge, it is NOT wrong to find a Lightpost or grc cache every 512 feet, its NOT wrong to place new caches in any of the manners just listed and ultimately it is not my or your place to scrutinize those for doing so.

The FTF-a-thon was fun. Of course you highlighted an isolated incident. I know Randy was upset with certain things but it wasn't cache placement but rather cacher etiquette. Randy did the grown up thing in a grown up fashion. Instead of trying to change everyone around him he realized he wanted to move on and that he did. He moved on to those things he found fun. Kudos to him, he didn't tear down the sport of caching.

Competition is what made America great. The desire to be good at what you do, to come in on top is healthy and productive to industry, schools and many things in general. Those that do come in on top set the pace that all of us strive for, they give us new ideas and GOALS. I also understand that some who get to the top shouldn't be admired but in a way they help us set goals too. That all aside, how has the competition that has evolved in certain aspects of geocaching changed the way you, as an individual, cache? I don't find myself in competition with anyone, yet I know there are competitions that I could, if I chose, to participate in. The freedom to play this game however one wants to is what, "The way caching should be." should come to symbolize. You essentially are trying to take away that freedom when attempting to restrict/scrutinize/invalidate certain types of cache hides and cache finders.

BrDad,

Oooops. My final thought I forgot to finish. BrDad, I know you threw this out for discussion and I think that its a fair subject to kick back and forth. Geocaching in Maine is changing fast but I don't think the direction we are heading is bad. We still have the "old" Maine caches and the "new" and, in my opinion, there is plenty of room for both.

You know what they say about opinions.

You know what they say about opinions.

nope, what do they say?

... Everybody's got one and everyone thinks everyone else's stinks.

That is often true, but a good opinion is based on some fact and personal experiences.

Either way, the truth is often somewhere in the middle.

I have sat back and not posted on these type of threads before. I am a fairly new cacher with about 1150 finds:D! I have enjoyed this HOBBY and have made a couple of good friends along the way! I have hiked over 5 miles for a single cache, driven the SMR grabbing caches while watching someone do their centum :cool:and all caches in between. I have enjoyed ALL of the cache hides and types that I have done with one exception.... the unmaintained caches:mad:!!! I did my centum in NH and that was an issue that we ran into a few times.If there was a type of hide that I did not enjoy than I think that I would not do those type but would not push my opinion on to others because they might enjoy those hides. I do watch the numbers and have done the FTF thing and also grab every cache without prejudice.:) The topic in this thread has gone on for way to long now! Why not harp on the unmaintained caches and wet logs for a while?:)

The topic in this thread has gone on for way to long now! Why not harp on the unmaintained caches and wet logs for a while?:)

Sheesh! Unmaintained caches and caches with wet logs ar among our favorites!

WHY? So you can submit your "needs maintenance" cache post? :eek:
Just kidding Bruce and I knew you were....;)

I have to say, if nothing at all, this forum is entertaining. At best, for me, it's been informative, educating and a source of relaxation as well as an escape from the daily grind. And, I've "electronically" met a lot of nice people. Like Tracy, I probably spend far too much time here.
We all have our favorite type of caching, we all have our various reasons for having chosen this activity. But at the end of the day, there are two points that, to my eyes, are glaringly large. First, at the risk of being redundant, this activity is what you want it to be. A day of paddling or hiking for one or two caches. Perhaps it's racing from cache to cache to jam as much as possible into the day.
Secondly, this recreation is still in it's infancy. It's growing and Maine is experiencing it's growing pains. I'm not sure there is any way to avoid that. Nor should we because we learn from it.
Has Maine become a mecca for centrum runs because it is easy? I don't think so. Are we known for it? I don't think so, not in the overall scheme of things.

I think I have the solution.......just go caching!

Secondly, this recreation is still in it's infancy. It's growing and Maine is experiencing it's growing pains. I'm not sure there is any way to avoid that. Nor should we because we learn from it.


Sheesh!

Infancy? After 9 years??? :confused::confused:

If so, I really dread to see what it's like when it's "mature".

Sheesh!

Infancy? After 9 years??? :confused::confused:

If so, I really dread to see what it's like when it's "mature".
just wait for the teen years:D:rolleyes::D

I guess if you compare caching to letterboxing, caching is in it's infancy. It also could be that it is suffering from progeria (No offense to anyone connected to this horrible disease).

Personally I think it is far from it's infancy stage. A lot has happened, both positive and negative, as is the case with many activities. As geocaching becomes more and more popular and as many more are placed, it gets more and more important to leave a positive impression with those who don't participate but do watch us and/or lend us the use of their land to hide and search for caches.

Why not harp on the unmaintained caches and wet logs for a while?:)

One could argue that there is a connection between our concerns in many cases. In the push to hide and find as many caches as we can, we often put maintenance on the back burner. I know I have seen many people log finds on multiple caches when one or more of their own caches need to be replaced or repaired. I've been guilty of that myself. I have seen caches hidden in haste which were not fully thought out, placing containers in areas which are prone to dampness or muggles, and the use of containers that is not favorable to the weather.

It is however not always the case. There are cachers out there with many hides who maintain their caches as there are cachers with one hide who don't. But it's obviously harder to maintain 50 caches when you are on a mission to find 30 caches a day every day.

Either way, I would not want Maine to be viewed as the land of unmaintained caches, either.


Best maintained cache ever: appletree cache (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=d3c28d03-d3c5-4a37-9b08-d555ea64b270) (GCHDT8) by Grammie B (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=185834) (1/1). One and only hide by someone with no finds. I think this lady checks her cache every day, of course it's 20 feet from her house! Lots of goodies inside, all clean, nice tins for everything.

It is however not always the case. There are cachers out there with many hides who maintain there caches as there are cachers with one hide who don't.

don't forget the cachers who maintain other cachers' caches:)

I can't tell you how much this kills me inside.

I really hate it when people start fighting and arguing especially about me or something I have done.

This has been going on for a long time and to me it is a little like the OJ trial. I would watch that trial and one day think for sure he did it and the next day think he was being framed because of the way the authorities handled things. I only wanted to give people a kudos and a couple of days of fun with the SMR caches. Some days I wish I had not done it when I see how people go after each other on here. Brdad has valid points that I agree with. So do the rest of you. Then I read all the logs about the story's of how people met the tributees and stories about things that would happen with the tributees out on the trails and I'm glad that I did the SMR caches because I would never have known these things.

Would I have done this if I had known the outcome. I leaning to the no side only because of the turmoil it has caused. But I would really miss the stories.

My opinion is that I love the interesting places and hides. I'm not a numbers guy at all. I only did about twenty caches on my trip out to Ohio and I was out there for two weeks. I want everyone to know that I don't take any of this personally. I respect and admire Brdad and all he does. I'm also in awe of all the things that everyone else does and come up with. I don't see any of the comments as negative, but more like constructive criticism. The negative comes in when the comments start getting personnel.

Please, please please! Go out there and have fun. That's all I can hope for.

A bit of play on words here ;) Caching in Maine.....the slow lane

Mike, the most important thing are the details and why you did it....and the only one to listen to is yourself. If you enjoyed placing them, get a kick out of the logs and the emails and have brought Maine to the attention of other cacher's, then my opinion would be "ya done good".

I think some of the negative or personal comments about the SMR series are more about the individual(s) making them and certainly not about you. We all have our view on it, and quite frankly I enjoy reading both the negative and positive sides. Certainly helps me to understand just a tad better. Don't be bullyed......start planning your next series :)



I can't tell you how much this kills me inside.

I really hate it when people start fighting and arguing especially about me or something I have done.

This has been going on for a long time and to me it is a little like the OJ trial. I would watch that trial and one day think for sure he did it and the next day think he was being framed because of the way the authorities handled things. I only wanted to give people a kudos and a couple of days of fun with the SMR caches. Some days I wish I had not done it when I see how people go after each other on here. Brdad has valid points that I agree with. So do the rest of you. Then I read all the logs about the story's of how people met the tributees and stories about things that would happen with the tributees out on the trails and I'm glad that I did the SMR caches because I would never have known these things.

Would I have done this if I had known the outcome. I leaning to the no side only because of the turmoil it has caused. But I would really miss the stories.

My opinion is that I love the interesting places and hides. I'm not a numbers guy at all. I only did about twenty caches on my trip out to Ohio and I was out there for two weeks. I want everyone to know that I don't take any of this personally. I respect and admire Brdad and all he does. I'm also in awe of all the things that everyone else does and come up with. I don't see any of the comments as negative, but more like constructive criticism. The negative comes in when the comments start getting personnel.

Please, please please! Go out there and have fun. That's all I can hope for.

I can't tell you how much this kills me inside.

I really hate it when people start fighting and arguing especially about me or something I have done.

This has been going on for a long time and to me it is a little like the OJ trial. I would watch that trial and one day think for sure he did it and the next day think he was being framed because of the way the authorities handled things. I only wanted to give people a kudos and a couple of days of fun with the SMR caches. Some days I wish I had not done it when I see how people go after each other on here. Brdad has valid points that I agree with. So do the rest of you. Then I read all the logs about the story's of how people met the tributees and stories about things that would happen with the tributees out on the trails and I'm glad that I did the SMR caches because I would never have known these things.

Would I have done this if I had known the outcome. I leaning to the no side only because of the turmoil it has caused. But I would really miss the stories.

My opinion is that I love the interesting places and hides. I'm not a numbers guy at all. I only did about twenty caches on my trip out to Ohio and I was out there for two weeks. I want everyone to know that I don't take any of this personally. I respect and admire Brdad and all he does. I'm also in awe of all the things that everyone else does and come up with. I don't see any of the comments as negative, but more like constructive criticism. The negative comes in when the comments start getting personnel.

Please, please please! Go out there and have fun. That's all I can hope for.
Mike, this argument didn't start with SMR, it has been going on for years. I don't often chime in, mainly because I see valid points on both sides. I think my best analogy for caching is golf. You are only playing against yourself. If a "gimme" is acceptable to you, go ahead and take it. If you count every stroke, play it that way.
I understand brdad's point of view. The caches he has placed (and prefers to find) are wilderness or challenging caches (see old 470). This type of cache takes some time investment to hike out to a mountaintop or solve a puzzle, you relish the moment when you finally finish the cache. That builds a good memory of that one cache find.
I also understand the rush of driving all over creation to log 100+ caches in 1 day (I did it twice in two months this summer). I'd be hard pressed to describe more than 10 of those caches, they all blur together, but what a great day, meeting the challenge.
I think that 1 complaint of the SMR initially was that it makes the centum challenge easier. I've done the challenge running town to town to get 100, and I've done the SMR. I think it was a little easier due to the caches all lined up instead of running all around, but it's still a lot of work!
Mike, you just got in the middle of a debate/argument that has gone on since (at least) around 2005. Enjoy the kudos from your caches, everyone has different viewpoints on caching, and lots of them like your caches.

Mike, you just got in the middle of a debate/argument that has gone on since (at least) around 2005.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was in June of 2004. That's when someone brought the first of the "Nashville style" caches to Maine.

Along with the "geocaching dog", but that's another thread...

Given that I'm not the sharpest thing on 2 legs, what is a Nashville style cache?

Wait, I think I know......isn't that when they use a dry rub on the cache and not a sauce? :D:rolleyes:



That's when someone brought the first of the "Nashville style" caches to Maine.

Mike, this argument didn't start with SMR, it has been going on for years. I don't often chime in, mainly because I see valid points on both sides. I think my best analogy for caching is golf. You are only playing against yourself. If a "gimme" is acceptable to you, go ahead and take it. If you count every stroke, play it that way.
I understand brdad's point of view. The caches he has placed (and prefers to find) are wilderness or challenging caches (see old 470). This type of cache takes some time investment to hike out to a mountaintop or solve a puzzle, you relish the moment when you finally finish the cache. That builds a good memory of that one cache find.
I also understand the rush of driving all over creation to log 100+ caches in 1 day (I did it twice in two months this summer). I'd be hard pressed to describe more than 10 of those caches, they all blur together, but what a great day, meeting the challenge.
I think that 1 complaint of the SMR initially was that it makes the centum challenge easier. I've done the challenge running town to town to get 100, and I've done the SMR. I think it was a little easier due to the caches all lined up instead of running all around, but it's still a lot of work!
Mike, you just got in the middle of a debate/argument that has gone on since (at least) around 2005. Enjoy the kudos from your caches, everyone has different viewpoints on caching, and lots of them like your caches.

Very well put Andy, I couldn't have said it better myself. Although I haven't met Mike and wish at some point I do, I think it is all about how you want to play the game personally and whatever each person decides to do it is ok with me.

Actually, I'm pretty sure it was in June of 2004. That's when someone brought the first of the "Nashville style" caches to Maine.

Along with the "geocaching dog", but that's another thread...

I know what exactly who and what you are talking about too. We are from the same time "zone" are we not?....:D;)

Twilight? :D



We are from the same time "zone" are we not?....:D;)

The previous posts are correct, this has nothing directly to do with Ekidokai or the individual SMR caches. It's not about Dalmatians or playing cards or LPCs or GRCs. I've said several times the caches were approved and the finds are legitimate (At least I assume they are). It's about what we want to promote.

I'd like to post a good analogy, but I fall short. I'm still thinking about it, however. Perhaps I am wrong in my thinking, or maybe it's just a tough sell. TRF has made many valid points without trashing me which I can't find fault with even if I don't agree.

Given that I'm not the sharpest thing on 2 legs, what is a Nashville style cache?


Sheesh! I'll give you an example (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?pf=&guid=9a98a1c8-7477-4e80-8280-d51b09d85bf6&decrypt=y&log=&numlogs=).

(Hint: think parking lot...)

Sheesh! I'll give you an example (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?pf=&guid=9a98a1c8-7477-4e80-8280-d51b09d85bf6&decrypt=y&log=&numlogs=).

(Hint: think parking lot...)

I've said it before. If you can read....don't complain. Just don't do them. I for one would be grateful as heck to discover 1/1s all day long if I were in a wheelchair!!! Heck I'm not in a wheelchair and enjoy most all of them anyway, esp. depending on weather or travel. Well...the 1.5s can be a buggah' ;) Those Nashville caches have boosted my spirits many caching trips after several DNFs.

I've said it before. If you can read....don't complain. Just don't do them. I for one would be grateful as heck to discover 1/1s all day long if I were in a wheelchair!!! Heck I'm not in a wheelchair and enjoy most all of them anyway, esp. depending on weather or travel. Well...the 1.5s can be a buggah' ;) Those Nashville caches have boosted my spirits many caching trips after several DNFs.

Dude - if you like LPC's and GRC's - go for it! I'll NEVER belittle you for doing them. I'll probably never pass one up myself. But I reserve the right to express MY opinion. And I guarantee you - I will.

Geocaching has become like a World Series game played with a wiffle-ball and plastic bats...

Again, it has little to do with individual 1/1's or Nashville style caches or micros or whatever. I've done plenty of them myself. There is a need for those caches. It has more to do with the carefree placement of some (not all!) of those caches - no permission, no particular reasoning, inability to maintain, saying you have someone local that will maintain them when you don't, other reasons.

When virtual cache placements were getting abused, it came to a point in order to have one approved, you had to convince the approver that the location was worthy of a cache. I kind of wish that policy was adopted for all caches. Even that came too late to prevent their demise (ok, relocation to waymarking.org). I do miss those virts, even the lame ones - I'd swap all my finds to have those back!

You have some very valid points here I agree with. With caching and placing caches comes responsibilities. I'm not sure there is an easy solution though. Good communications are a start.



Again, it has little to do with individual 1/1's or Nashville style caches or micros or whatever. I've done plenty of them myself. There is a need for those caches. It has more to do with the carefree placement of some (not all!) of those caches - no permission, no particular reasoning, inability to maintain, saying you have someone local that will maintain them when you don't, other reasons.

When virtual cache placements were getting abused, it came to a point in order to have one approved, you had to convince the approver that the location was worthy of a cache. I kind of wish that policy was adopted for all caches. Even that came too late to prevent their demise (ok, relocation to waymarking.org). I do miss those virts, even the lame ones - I'd swap all my finds to have those back!

Mike, this argument didn't start with SMR, it has been going on for years. I don't often chime in, mainly because I see valid points on both sides. I think my best analogy for caching is golf. You are only playing against yourself. If a "gimme" is acceptable to you, go ahead and take it. If you count every stroke, play it that way.
I understand brdad's point of view. The caches he has placed (and prefers to find) are wilderness or challenging caches (see old 470). This type of cache takes some time investment to hike out to a mountaintop or solve a puzzle, you relish the moment when you finally finish the cache. That builds a good memory of that one cache find.
I also understand the rush of driving all over creation to log 100+ caches in 1 day (I did it twice in two months this summer). I'd be hard pressed to describe more than 10 of those caches, they all blur together, but what a great day, meeting the challenge.
I think that 1 complaint of the SMR initially was that it makes the centum challenge easier. I've done the challenge running town to town to get 100, and I've done the SMR. I think it was a little easier due to the caches all lined up instead of running all around, but it's still a lot of work!
Mike, you just got in the middle of a debate/argument that has gone on since (at least) around 2005. Enjoy the kudos from your caches, everyone has different viewpoints on caching, and lots of them like your caches.


I agree here with Sudonim, then it was Dalmations and more generally "seed caches" . lol. An issue then was over ease of accumulating FTF's not the centum challenge. Obviously the bigger issue was the LP and GRC hides to accomodate all the "seeds". Funny how things go in big circles.

You have some very valid points here I agree with. With caching and placing caches comes responsibilities. I'm not sure there is an easy solution though. Good communications are a start.

Thanks, and I agree 100%. There is no easy fix. I hate rules, and don't really want or expect gc.com to regulate every aspect of the game. The best hope is communication - which is promoting that which you think is good for the game, and speaking out about what you think might be harming the game. That does not mean if you don't like multis you should start bashing everyone that hides them. But if you think they are bad for the game, then by all means try and produce some valid arguments against them.

Understood, thanks.



Sheesh! I'll give you an example (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?pf=&guid=9a98a1c8-7477-4e80-8280-d51b09d85bf6&decrypt=y&log=&numlogs=).

(Hint: think parking lot...)

Exactly. It's that easy. I don't like puzzle caches, so I don't do them. On the other hand, as I look at a lot of them, our area has two of the best puzzle cache placers going. Brdad and Cano. I certainly respect them for their abilities.



I've said it before. If you can read....don't complain. Just don't do them.

Cano's puzzles are great. They make you rack your brain, not just your body. I personally love having a challange of having to solve a puzzle that makes you reuse skills that you learned in high school. Because of his QR Code cache, I no longer wonder that the heck those pixelated squares are on my bills, food, and hygiene products anymore. Now I just wonder what each one his hiding.