View Full Version : Has anyone else noticed this?



EvilHomer
08-17-2009, 05:26 PM
Certain caches seem to be worse about losing T.B.s or Geocoins than others? There is one in Bangor that I will not mention that listed having several coins, including one of MINE. I went by to pull out my coin to move it somewhere else and WHAMO, NO COINS. Ok, that wouldnt be so frustrating but this is like the third time that I have been to this particular cache and found all the coins gone and NO LOGS, and most of the coins MIA. Now I see the logs there indicate that its happened AGAIN! The one coin listed is now gone. Are there people who poach coins by wathing G.C.com and wait until there is a coin in a particular cache and they take it? I cant believe all of the removed coins where taken by people who dont know coin ettiquite and dont log them when they should and then they turn up elsewhere. They all seem to just disappear off the face of the earth, MINE INCLUDED! This coin theft **** is starting to really PISS ME OFF! But what really makes me mad is my 3 year olds Travel Bug was in a cache up home in Patten that was muggled and now her TB is gone. She was very dissappionted that she cant watch it move around anymore. Maybe we need to develop a tracking coin, LITERALLY! One that sends signals as to where IT IS! Sorry for the rant this just really gets my blood hot! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:

hollora
08-17-2009, 05:39 PM
Ah Homer, I understnad your drift. I have ligitimately placed coins with witnesses and they have gone missing...........I don't know the cache you refer to (PM me if you like and we can discuss) but there are plenty of trackables in general (coins and TBs) which go missing in a ton of areas.

We all need to remember when we release them - their fate is truely - open to the World of muggles. Honestly - there is nothing to prevent anyone from finding our sport, coming on in, grabbing an trackable and changing the direction of our fun. No question - it stinks, but it does happen.

I have used the logs to try and recover (as a cache owner and proactive to helping) TBs and coins........but not everyone is willing to go read the logs and micromanage helping in a recovery.

On the other side - I have had some of mine disappear for a long time and reappear mysteriously to my surprise. This was always a woo, hoo!

Do not give up faith - frustrated and hard to explain to a little one for sure - but maybe it will resurface.

I am interested in the where it disappeared........also interested in what will happen with the hotel which says it is being taped..............

masterson of the universe
08-17-2009, 05:41 PM
Certain caches seem to be worse about losing T.B.s or Geocoins than others? There is one in Bangor that I will not mention that listed having several coins, including one of MINE. I went by to pull out my coin to move it somewhere else and WHAMO, NO COINS. Ok, that wouldnt be so frustrating but this is like the third time that I have been to this particular cache and found all the coins gone and NO LOGS, and most of the coins MIA. Now I see the logs there indicate that its happened AGAIN! The one coin listed is now gone. Are there people who poach coins by wathing G.C.com and wait until there is a coin in a particular cache and they take it? I cant believe all of the removed coins where taken by people who dont know coin ettiquite and dont log them when they should and then they turn up elsewhere. They all seem to just disappear off the face of the earth, MINE INCLUDED! This coin theft **** is starting to really PISS ME OFF! But what really makes me mad is my 3 year olds Travel Bug was in a cache up home in Patten that was muggled and now her TB is gone. She was very dissappionted that she cant watch it move around anymore. Maybe we need to develop a tracking coin, LITERALLY! One that sends signals as to where IT IS! Sorry for the rant this just really gets my blood hot! :mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad::mad: :mad:


I know exactly which cache in Bangor you are talking about as I put three TB's in it, all had more thought than just attaching a matchbox or something, and all three disappeared with no logs. I'm thinking this one particular cache maybe ought to be relocated and watched closely to see if its a lucky muggle finding it or an actual cacher. Quite frustrating as they may be just tags but they aren't free. I was wondering what took them so long to move and then received email logs that they were missing. I personally won't be putting more trackables in that location to meet their death...:mad::mad:

If anyone happens to see Darth (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=1753720), Pumpkin Head (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=1753715), or Spooky Face (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?id=1753718), they all disappeard from the cache they were started in so please get them back into circulation. I had fun putting them together and hate to see this happen to anyones bugs, let alone mine.

hollora
08-17-2009, 06:42 PM
OK - so now I know which cache. Has anyone hiked out to read the written cache log? And - based on personal experience - I strongly suggest changing the name of the TB to beginning with and ending with STOLEN.

TBs are a bit different than coins - as the number is on a tag and there is an object attached vs. a Geocoin where the number is on a coin. Still not a joke they are missing,

I would be posting on my TB page a long story about it going missing. Shame the perp into putting it back somewhere. The cache these were taken from isn't something or somewhere just anyone would stumble upon it. Not at all!

So, whoever found it - did so knowingly and may just be lurking.........post your feelings on your TB page and pray for the best!

JMHO

WhereRWe?
08-17-2009, 07:38 PM
I know from experience that someone in the Bangor area is a geocoin/TB thief. It is someone we know and is a member of the GeocachingMaine.org "community". Contrary to some previous comments in these forums, I have never suggested that any specific person is "the culprit". All I can say is, "Beware in Bangor"! :mad::mad:

brdad
08-17-2009, 07:47 PM
It's funny how some people are as passionate about TB issues as I am other issues! TBs are a great idea but there are too many cracks in the process to get wound up over IMO. It's amazing some make it as far as they do.

I do however, think it is wrong to take TBs and feel your pain. I have put two TBs out, both went missing from the first cache they were placed in. The first one I replaced using the copy tag. The second one was an 18 lb TB I dropped on an island! Mysteriously, that one reappeared a year later (On the island!), has made two hops, and is now in Montreal.

Anyway, it is too bad that there are actual geocachers out there who would do this. Time to set up a game camera!

pm28570
08-17-2009, 08:55 PM
With all this in mind, I would like to release a coin with a mission, however I am not about to do so only to have it stolen, especially by a cacher. That said, is it ok or possible to place a copy or facsimille of a coin to send it on it's way?

brdad
08-17-2009, 09:26 PM
Some people drill a hole in their coins. That at least stops anyone from taking it to sell. But that's about all it stops, and it often looks ugly.

TRF
08-17-2009, 09:48 PM
With all this in mind, I would like to release a coin with a mission, however I am not about to do so only to have it stolen, especially by a cacher. That said, is it ok or possible to place a copy or facsimille of a coin to send it on it's way?

Recently I logged a coin that was basically a "plug". The sender printed a photo of the original then glued it to the plug (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=304bdb24-23eb-4457-bf8d-fce964250414). It had the weight of a real coin but in was definately paper glued on. If I were ever to send a coin I would do the same. I too have had several coins move from the genesis cache into a theifs collection and I have a good Idea who it is too.

masterson of the universe
08-17-2009, 11:08 PM
Anyone feel like shooting out a PM as to who this might be? I don't have all the inside info that some of you have and would love to know what the hell would disgruntle someone to the point where they feel the needs to steal TB's and coins, and possibly ruin caches. If some of you know who it is for sure, has this person been banned from this site? Is there complaint process to try and ban them GC.com?

firefighterjake
08-18-2009, 11:50 AM
Hmmm . . . I can maybe understand why coins might go MIA for some person who is really into collecting coins . . . me, I don't collect them or even like moving them along.

TBs however make me question as to whether someone would steal a TB . . . I haven't heard -- and can't imagine -- many people with a TB collection. I mean, it would be a rather odd and eclectic collection to be sure . . . matchbox cars, stuffed animals and various knicknacks.

I'm not saying there isn't a thief . . . but I do raise the possibility that a cache that can easily be found in a fairly popular area may have new cachers coming out, finding coins or TBs and not realizing they're not keep-ables, but designed for moving along. I know when I first started out I saw TBs and coins and didn't realize they were meant to be moved along . . . although to be fair I also knew enough not to take them until I found out what the deal was with those "dog tags."

benandtina
08-18-2009, 03:55 PM
This makes me sad. Ben's and my fourth anniversary is coming up and the traditional anniversary gift is fruit/flowers. I was considering buying a few coins that look like fruits and flowers and planning some caching days to release them. Now I am wondering if that will just be a waste of money :/

benandtina
08-18-2009, 03:57 PM
I'm not saying there isn't a thief . . . but I do raise the possibility that a cache that can easily be found in a fairly popular area may have new cachers coming out, finding coins or TBs and not realizing they're not keep-ables, but designed for moving along. I know when I first started out I saw TBs and coins and didn't realize they were meant to be moved along . . . although to be fair I also knew enough not to take them until I found out what the deal was with those "dog tags."

Even if someone doesn't realize what the TB is right away, if they stay involved in caching they will eventually find out. Although, I guess it is possible for someone to take a TB and either lose it before finding out what it is or just stop caching.

I've seen people put their TB's in baggies and geocoins in sleeves with instructions explaining what they are... but having to move it around in a baggy isn't nearly as cute.

EvilHomer
08-18-2009, 05:45 PM
OK - so now I know which cache. Has anyone hiked out to read the written cache log? And - based on personal experience - I strongly suggest changing the name of the TB to beginning with and ending with STOLEN.


Not the cache your thinking of, but that might be the case there too,(that is my cache). The one I was referring to is GCV7EK Out of Place in Bangor. This one actually seems to lose things almost as soon as they show up. This is one of Jakes Caches.

EvilHomer
08-18-2009, 05:52 PM
I think the next Coin I put out will be a laminated color picture of the coin with the numbers readable. Some might think thats tacky but I am tired of people stealing my coins. Granted some might be novice cachers, but that should rectify after they do a few caches and use the site for a while and you would think they would resurface. I have too many missing for that.

WhereRWe?
08-18-2009, 06:59 PM
Sheesh! Here's good example (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=cd25833b-a061-48ae-9fdb-b070b4ace670) of the discussion.

RULost2? and I are heading down to the coast tomorrow for some seafood, and I was looking to see what caches were in the area. Since we LOVE picking up TB's and geocoins, the above geocoin caught my attention.

But...

Geocoin "discovered" 10/24/2008, and the log says "my daughter geosoaker is carrying it westward". The person who discovered the geocoin has found 2 caches, and hasn't been on GC.com since 8/20/2008. (Yeah - I know - the dates don't jive...)

No record of "geosoaker" ever having picked up the coin, and it obviously isn't in the cache. And "geosoaker" has only found 1 cache in Maine (not the one with the geocoin), on 24/10/08 (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?ul=geosoaker&submit4=Go).

For 20 points, where is the geocoin?

hollora
08-18-2009, 07:21 PM
Not the cache your thinking of, but that might be the case there too,(that is my cache). The one I was referring to is GCV7EK Out of Place in Bangor. This one actually seems to lose things almost as soon as they show up. This is one of Jakes Caches.

Oh, no - you are right - I was looking at some TBs that went missing. I did not realize about Jake's cache.

I, also, think I know what WhereRWe is referring to about a missing coin of his. It stinks to have coins taken.

I put a coin in the cache at Lenoard's Mills right after it was put out and there was another cacher with me who saw me do it - it went missing too. I don't think this is isolated to just one cache. Can think of a bunch in the "greater" area where coins have gone missing.

Again, I mark mine "STOLEN" on their page - both TBs and Coins - thankfully a few have reappeared. My trackables overseas (except Africa) have done very well!

hollora
08-18-2009, 07:27 PM
Sheesh! Here's good example (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=cd25833b-a061-48ae-9fdb-b070b4ace670) of the discussion.

RULost2? and I are heading down to the coast tomorrow for some seafood, and I was looking to see what caches were in the area. Since we LOVE picking up TB's and geocoins, the above geocoin caught my attention.

But...

Geocoin "discovered" 10/24/2008, and the log says "my daughter geosoaker is carrying it westward". The person who discovered the geocoin has found 2 caches, and hasn't been on GC.com since 8/20/2008. (Yeah - I know - the dates don't jive...)

No record of "geosoaker" ever having picked up the coin, and it obviously isn't in the cache. And "geosoaker" has only found 1 cache in Maine (not the one with the geocoin), on 24/10/08 (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/nearest.aspx?ul=geosoaker&submit4=Go).

For 20 points, where is the geocoin?

Strange posts and when was the Mt. Battie cache muggled??? As I believe it was.

One of my TBs had a weird tale too and it came back out of the dark abyss very mysteriously and unexpectedly.

Hope you have a nice trip to enjoy some seafood. Sailing this weekend will fulfill my yearnings. Cache on - cache happy!

firefighterjake
08-19-2009, 07:32 AM
Not the cache your thinking of, but that might be the case there too,(that is my cache). The one I was referring to is GCV7EK Out of Place in Bangor. This one actually seems to lose things almost as soon as they show up. This is one of Jakes Caches.

Huh . . . to be honest I never noticed that the coins are going MIA . . . then again I'm not really into the coins or TBs (although I do have three TBs out there and I will move a TB when I come across a TB).

Again, I think this is a very easy cache to find for novice cachers . . . just playing the Devil's Advocate, but there seems to be a lot of folks who start caching without learning all of the nuances of the game and many of these folks just find a few caches and then are never heard from again -- it's very possible that the coins may be taken by these newbies thinking they are swag . . .

Of course, the other possibility is that someone is maliciously taken them. . . .

I am a bit sorry to hear that this cache has come up with MIA coins . . . does anyone think I should perhaps post a note about this at this cache for future cachers . . . of course it sounds as though this isn't the only local cache to have an issue with missing coins.

On another note . . . Evil . . . I think sending out a replica would perhaps be the safer thing if one is concerned with missing coins . . . for folks who collect the icons they should be more than happy and when they log the find they can see the intricate details of the coin.

By the way, would anyone like to see my killer coin collection ;):D . . . and yes . . . I am kidding . . . perhaps this one is in bad taste.

Opalsns
08-19-2009, 09:31 AM
A cacher went to an event in Michigan, where he met a person who had a binder full of coins, he had taken from caches. When the cacher asked the coiner if he was going to release the ones that belonged to other people, he closed the binder and left.

Someone elese responded that there is a cacher in MI that displaces the coins found in his caches in a window on a locked porch so they can be discovered. When he's asked to release the kidnapped coins, he ignores the requests.

Is it larceny ? Can it legally be reported or is " 9/10ths of the law is posesion"
I don't understand why someone hasn't reported him. He may have my missing coins.

Opalsns

EvilHomer
08-19-2009, 04:35 PM
About the time he closed his binder and walked away I would be hollering COIN THIEF and tell him that his name is going to be posted on the GC boards as a THIEF!

WhereRWe?
08-19-2009, 05:37 PM
About the time he closed his binder and walked away I would be hollering COIN THIEF and tell him that his name is going to be posted on the GC boards as a THIEF!

Sheesh! And then he'd be in your face demanding that you "PROVE IT"!

I've also been at major geocaching events where people have huge binders full of geocoins. I also have a hard time believing that all those hundreds of coins were purchased at a minimum of probably $5 each.

Of the 9 geocoins we've released, 7 are not accounted for...

benandtina
08-20-2009, 08:39 AM
Ew. That's horrible. When Ben and I first started caching we wondered how stuff stays so safe. Our conclusion was that malicious people aren't going to take out the time to go on gc.com, find out where caches are and put energy in to searching for the caches just to damage them. After reading about people having so little respect for other cachers' geocoins it makes me think we are wrong :( I guess jerks are willing to put so much time in to messing up the game for others.

It also amazes me that people are so shameless. I'd think they'd be too embarrassed to show off stuff they are stealing, especially at geocaching events!

fins2right
08-20-2009, 10:15 PM
Anyway, it is too bad that there are actual geocachers out there who would do this. Time to set up a game camera!


I like the Camera idea!:D

hollora
08-21-2009, 07:41 AM
Seems to me I remember a cache in Hampden a while ago which had a camera set up. Wonder if its still there?

The new TB hotel at the Campground up this way says it has surveillence. If you can do it - not a bad idea I suppose.

EvilHomer
08-21-2009, 10:16 AM
Sheesh! And then he'd be in your face demanding that you "PROVE IT"!



It wouldnt be hard to. Just get some numbers off the coins and run them through GC.com and see if any are listed as STOLEN. Not hard at all! I case you didnt know I am in the profession of PROVING IT! :)

WhereRWe?
08-21-2009, 10:39 AM
It wouldnt be hard to. Just get some numbers off the coins and run them through GC.com and see if any are listed as STOLEN. Not hard at all! I case you didnt know I am in the profession of PROVING IT! :)

Sheesh! I know it's easy to prove that a coin is stolen. What's hard to prove is WHO stole it before you start yelling "COIN THIEF". :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Ekidokai
08-21-2009, 11:12 AM
Exactly. We have to be careful.

Mapachi
08-21-2009, 09:20 PM
Sheesh! I know it's easy to prove that a coin is stolen. What's hard to prove is WHO stole it before you start yelling "COIN THIEF". :rolleyes::rolleyes:
Stealing or recieving stolen goods.....who cares? BUST HIS BUTT!

brdad
08-22-2009, 06:33 AM
Does it mean a person has stolen a coin just because someone has coins in a binder and does not want to talk about it? I had Zoltorus' Fun-To-Find Geocoin Fun-To-Find Geocoin (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=0b4e3114-8946-4c8a-95a3-f5f474d7cf7c) for just under two years, and if I could have easily carried it around in a folder to show people. Agreed, that coin may not be the best example as it was clear not to move it quickly, but to take your time and place it in a quality cache, as I did. As far as not wanting to talk about it, TBs and coins are obviously a touchy subject with many of the TB addicts, and I can see where a person who had a large collection might place the ones in there he was moving along and not want to get into a heated discussion with those addicts. You can argue it has been missing from a cache and has not been logged out of it, but maybe they just don't want to log it until they're ready to release it because if they did they might be hounded by the owner every two days to move it along. There are many people who don't log TBs out of caches until they are ready to place them somewhere. Everyone keeps telling me there is room for everyone to play their way, why not here?

Who decides when an object which is designed to travel from person to person (and which has no defined limit on how long it stays with each person) is stolen?

Again, I am just playing devil's advocate. Not necessarily my true feelings but semi-valid points nonetheless. Be careful who you are accusing and what you are accusing them of!

Opalsns
08-22-2009, 08:25 AM
Where are we ? , is correct. There was a similar thread on another site. I mentioned CraftyCachers had taken my Trout TB , it went to 1 cache after WWWWWW and she was ignoring my requests to move it. I mentioned it here but know one said they knew who it was. I mentioned it on the other thread and was told in no uncertain terms,
YOU CAN NOT ACUSE ANYONE PERSONALLY OF BEING A THIEF. Then It was spread by some idiot that I was saying Maine cachers were thieves, Which I NEVER said , by the way!!!!!!!
So , even though there is OBVIOUS foul play with the coins in Michigan, No One can actually ACUSE them!!
But can you find them and beat the crap out of them ???

Opalsns

Opalsns
08-22-2009, 08:29 AM
Be careful who you are accusing and what you are accusing them of!

Thank Brdad, My husband and I are still chuckling from that comment.!!

LOL
Opalsns

fins2right
08-22-2009, 10:12 AM
I think the next Coin I put out will be a laminated color picture of the coin with the numbers readable. Some might think thats tacky but I am tired of people stealing my coins. Granted some might be novice cachers, but that should rectify after they do a few caches and use the site for a while and you would think they would resurface. I have too many missing for that.


Oh to heck with "tacky". I moved a coin last year that was kind of a neat set up. The owner scaned the coin, printed it out and encased the print into a poly disk. The coin got mileage, he kept the original. I had no problem with the set up, and thought it was a great idea.

I recently had a friend who has gotten out of geocaching to go back to school give me a coin that he found in his kids toybox. I sent an email to the owner and I'm placing it in the Portland area tomorrow. (must go see big waves :D) He did not intend for the coin to go missing for 7 months and did not really remember letting his 5 year old hold it for him. Things sometimes happen.

Now if we have a pattern of continuing thefts I would suggest the following: Game Camera and a series of photos showing a "suspect" entering the cache without logging it. Then a private email to that person asking why. The pattern would have to be photo proof of the person being at the cache, and a lack of logs. When I travel up to Bangor next week for the festival and move a few coins, I do not want to end up a suspect. :D Without photo proof, you have nothing but rumour.

I have lost coins too. It sucks. In fact last year I moved two of E.H.'s coins from Bangor to China/Vassalboro and the promptly vanished. I still feel guilty about that.

The upshot is that it might be as much fun trying to catch the thief as it is putting the coin out. Good luck and I'm thankfull that has not happened in the Waterville area.

TRF
08-22-2009, 10:59 AM
How can someone steal a coin that has been "released" willingly by the "owner" into a geocache? When we "released" ours, we did so knowing that we would most likely never see it again. We did hope that they would travel further than they did. We have placed 3 coins and 7 TBs, the coins never logged more than 3 caches before being taken out of circulation and 5 TBs have gone missing.

I think thief is not an accurate term, the tactless person who purposely keeps a coin intended to circulate between caches is a selfish lowlife scumbag who would deprive their own children of anything decent, including repected qualities such as honesty and integrity.

I wouldn't "release" another TB or coin into a geocache for all the love of the sport. I'd much rather give a $5 bill to the coffers of a food pantry or local charity than give a self-glorifying two-bit loser another opportunity to add to their personal geo-coin collection.

P.S. while I'm on a tirade, don't show me your personal coin collection as I'm liable to spit on it. Keep it to yourself as I have NO interest in ever seeing a personal "collection" of geo-coins.

squirrelcache
08-22-2009, 12:28 PM
I've heard other Very well seasoned/experienced Geocachers own up to a common issue. It's very easy to pick up a coin/TB and misplace it. I've also been guilty of placing them in hard to reach caches for protection from muggles, only to have them stuck there for too long. I don't like to remember the ones where I forgot which cache it was placed in...... or forgot to log the drop..for a while.

So while I'm a huge believer that reminders can be a wonderful thing. Be careful in your approach/assumptions when reaching out to someone. It's much harder to repair the damage that's done....than to prevent it.

hide_from_the_kids
08-22-2009, 12:45 PM
so on vacation in 2008 we went to this cache http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=1989f474-99f0-4f04-b845-5e852014c80f as our 600 cache to celebrate we released a coin. the coin never left the cache as you read the logs through out the cache page there is a constant of no tb's or no coins. i haven't given up hope that the coin will come back or maybe some cacher might find it in their backpack somewhere and get it back out. but like trf said you know the risk when putting them out the most you can do is sit back and watch. as for personal coin collections i have one and everyone is welcome to look at and discover them i even have some to trade.

Opalsns
08-22-2009, 01:20 PM
I've heard other Very well seasoned/experienced Geocachers own up to a common issue. It's very easy to pick up a coin/TB and misplace it. I've also been guilty of placing them in hard to reach caches for protection from muggles, only to have them stuck there for too long. I don't like to remember the ones where I forgot which cache it was placed in...... or forgot to log the drop..for a while.

So while I'm a huge believer that reminders can be a wonderful thing. Be careful in your approach/assumptions when reaching out to someone. It's much harder to repair the damage that's done....than to prevent it.

I agree with you there. I know in my case, I emailed from gc.com GCMaine.org and their own home page, for a year.
And things can happen, like the kids grabing them or putting them in a coat or back pack that doesn;t get used again untill the next season.
I can also agree that it's possible for noobs to move them and forget to get the number or to log it, but those usually turn up.
I think most of the concern is with the amount of each cachers Coins/TBs that go missing.
Some folks don't lose any , some one or 2. But like EH case, 9 out of 10 of mine are missing form different states.
And also the amount that goes missing from the same cache. Maybe the placer should remove the cache and put a knew one elsewhere. And post that it's moved to hide it from coin thieves, maybe that'll retard their bad intentions.
I think it was a good idea to post the warning. It brought attention to a big problem.
It would be great to monitor the cache, but the Scum Bag would find another cache to rape. Especially if they know it's being watched!!!!
But truthfully for me, I have stopped saying, "Oh well ,when you release it" because I think that 'bout gives the snake permission to take it.
Just a thought.
Opalsns

brdad
08-22-2009, 02:02 PM
Thank Brdad, My husband and I are still chuckling from that comment.!!

LOL
Opalsns

I'm not sure where the humor comes from, but I say never pass an opportunity to laugh so I am glad you got some benefit from it.

I guess what I was getting at is it might be hard to tell the difference between a coin thief and one who plays the game differently.

Waterski
08-22-2009, 06:38 PM
When you say" play the game differently" BRdad, I am wondering how taking out coins and not circulating them anymore is an intended way to play the game, or a very fair way to the people that purchase coins.That is a very gracious way to put it on your part. I can't imagine anyone, after reading the posts here, actually wants people to just collect their coins for a gift. I often wonder if some coins don't just get dropped into a cache on the website, and never really get dropped into a cache physically at all and go missing that way. That way the coin thief looks good, but the coin is still in their possession and it looks like someone elses fault. Just a thought. Sometimes the next person shows up, and behold, there is not even a coin in there. Maybe someone took it, maybe they did not. It definitely makes it hard to find a place to place a great coin and then feel responsible to the owner when it goes missing. I hate that.

WhereRWe?
08-22-2009, 06:56 PM
I often wonder if some coins don't just get dropped into a cache on the website, and never really get dropped into a cache physically at all and go missing that way.

Sheesh! What could possibly be the purpose of this? Generally, people place a coin/TB in a cache, and then log the drop later - not the other way around.

:confused::confused::confused:

Opalsns
08-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Sheesh! What could possibly be the purpose of this? Generally, people place a coin/TB in a cache, and then log the drop later - not the other way around.

:confused::confused::confused:


I think I understand what they mean, it's like they just posted that they dropped it but never ever intended to drop it in, I think.
There was a cacher that would take peoples coins/tbs and put them in a TB graveyard. I learned about it doing a cointest that required looking for tbs. I wish I could remember the cache number off hand, but it is in the threads. Can you imagine that?

Opalsns

brdad
08-22-2009, 07:30 PM
When you say" play the game differently" BRdad, I am wondering how taking out coins and not circulating them anymore is an intended way to play the game, or a very fair way to the people that purchase coins.

I agree with you all the way, I think holding onto coins longer than expected is not a good practice, but many of those that do probably think it's perfectly fine and would give you the "let everyone cache the way they want to" speech like is so often used for other subjects in the sport, for example those that log events multiple times for each temporary cache they find at the event. Another is logging finds on caches you never looked for. I have spoken out against those before, and instantly get the "let everyone cache the way they want" speech. In reality, there is no way everyone can play the way they want, like other aspects of life there are those areas which are acceptable or unacceptable by 95% of the population, and some ares that are gray. We all have our opinions as to how each of the gray areas lean.

Again, with coins and TBs, I agree with you. But if I was one of the guys who held onto coins indefinitely, I might not.

brdad
08-22-2009, 07:34 PM
Sheesh! What could possibly be the purpose of this? Generally, people place a coin/TB in a cache, and then log the drop later - not the other way around.

:confused::confused::confused:

I agree with Opalsns - I think some of these people log a TB into a cache thinking they won't be the ones blamed for taking them. I think if they did this often, you could see by how many TBs end up missing when the next cacher comes looking for the TB and logs that is is missing.

Waterski
08-22-2009, 09:11 PM
I think the best way to play this game is just to go out and enjoy the spots people send you to, and the TB and Coin circuit just has to be secondary, or people will go "BANANAS" fretting about all the things on this tread. Life is too short to worry about how other people prefer to play. People can't hijak the waterfalls and scenic views:D

masterson of the universe
08-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Go ahead and play the game the way you want and by whatever rules you create but don't freaking steal the TB's that I spent money on. I could care less if you are logging caches that you don't go looking for or are fudging numbers in any other way but if you have no intention of moving my TB's along, don't take them....

brdad
08-23-2009, 06:01 AM
Well I could easily say just the opposite, but in reality I wish both situations were much less prominent.

As has been mentioned elsewhere, education is the best hope. It is nearly impossible to peg any individual as a thief even with game cameras or other high tech equipment. The more newer or unknowing cachers we can educate about standard TB/coin/caching/other etiquette the better.

WhereRWe?
08-23-2009, 06:01 AM
I agree with Opalsns - I think some of these people log a TB into a cache thinking they won't be the ones blamed for taking them. I think if they did this often, you could see by how many TBs end up missing when the next cacher comes looking for the TB and logs that is is missing.

OK - I understand. Had a senior moment, I guess. I wasn't thinking of people logging coins into caches with no intent of actually putting them there. Duh! :o:o

dubord207
08-23-2009, 07:13 AM
When I started caching almost 2 years ago, I bought a lot of nice coins, some in the 20 dollar range. I lost five in one month. There's one that a gentleman logged as grab, never said a thing for 6 months and now says he didn't take it. So....I have a large bucket of unactivated coins I have purchased and I get a huge amount of enjoyment just giving them to my caching friends. I move an occassional coin but the thievery left a sour taste in my mouth.

As far as pointing the finger at a suspected thief, I recommend caution. Theft is a crime so like it or not there's that consitutional presumption of of innocence so we need to be careful here. But, if somebody gets caught, then this would be a great place to humilate the low-life.

My fear is that the few jerks out there will result in others like me from putting their coins out for others to enjoy.

TRF
08-23-2009, 07:17 AM
... ... ..."let everyone cache the way they want to" speech like is so often used for other subjects in the sport, for example those that log events multiple times for each temporary cache they find at the event... ... ... ...


Again, etiquette/ethics is un-inforcable. My analogy would be the rules that we all should obey on the states roads and highways. NOT everyone has a great etiquette/ethics about the way they chose to abide by those rules. Some folks drive slow, others fast, some are considerate of other drivers yet others feel the road is for them and no one else but the one underlining theme is that we all have to respect one another. Theiving is in no way, "let everyone cache the way they want to" although I'm not sure taking a coin left in a container in the woods is a crime. Thinking this completely through, leaving a container in the woods is probably more of a crime as it could be construed as litter in some cases, especially where permission has not been obtained.

Linking this conversation about TB's and coins with the other about cache types and placement really isn't comparing apples to apples.

brdad
08-23-2009, 07:43 AM
Linking this conversation about TB's and coins with the other about cache types and placement really isn't comparing apples to apples.

I think the similarities are there. Heck, TBs are just the descendants of moving caches! In either case, until you get to the actual point of thievery, it's a way to play the game. Of course with caches, once it is taken, there is a good chance you can consider it stolen. With TBs, they are designed to be removed (at least in the majority of cases), so just because someone takes one (whether he logs it or not) you can't just consider it stolen on those grounds alone. Anyway, I used it as an example, let's stick to TBs, even though I don't think we will come up with any answer to improve the situation short of education.

pm28570
08-23-2009, 08:18 AM
When I first started caching, I noticed this was happening with geocoins. Finding a cache with a coin listed, only to be disappointed that it wasn't there. While I'm not the sharpest thing on two legs, it didn't take long to see that any coin I invested in and released would soon go MIA.
I think the solution for me is to produce a pathtag and leave/distribute that.



When I started caching almost 2 years ago, I bought a lot of nice coins, some in the 20 dollar range. I lost five in one month. There's one that a gentleman logged as grab, never said a thing for 6 months and now says he didn't take it. So....I have a large bucket of unactivated coins I have purchased and I get a huge amount of enjoyment just giving them to my caching friends. I move an occassional coin but the thievery left a sour taste in my mouth.

squirrelcache
08-23-2009, 09:41 AM
When I first started caching, I noticed this was happening with geocoins. Finding a cache with a coin listed, only to be disappointed that it wasn't there. ......
Back around 100 finds for me......I picked up a coin on my way home from an event. I didn't even get a chance to get home...write to the person that dropped it so as to remind them... before I got Blasted about the process of picking up and logging. :( Get this.....it was by someone w/26 finds. I kindly reminded them that I'd Just picked up the coin hours before... and the person that dropped it hadn't even logged it dropped yet.

I know we can all get a bit touchy about potential thievery and lost coins ......atleast give people a chance. :)

I've noticed a huge increase in path tag activity. I think they're a great idea w/multipurpose as gifts, swag, and trackables. It also doesn't take many coin purchases to equal the investment of molding pathtags....and you get such a huge return on it too.

EvilHomer
08-23-2009, 10:32 PM
Sheesh! I know it's easy to prove that a coin is stolen. What's hard to prove is WHO stole it before you start yelling "COIN THIEF". :rolleyes::rolleyes:

ahhh...not if the guy is standing there with a book with your coin in it who is in possession of it claiming it as his. Right? If you do it right you get his name and then get some of the numbers of his coins when he's showing them off. Then go back and check them to see if the owner has labeled them as stolen.

EvilHomer
08-23-2009, 10:37 PM
Does it mean a person has stolen a coin just because someone has coins in a binder and does not want to talk about it? I had Zoltorus' Fun-To-Find Geocoin Fun-To-Find Geocoin (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=0b4e3114-8946-4c8a-95a3-f5f474d7cf7c) for just under two years, and if I could have easily carried it around in a folder to show people.

Why would anyone have someone elses coin in THEIR binder to begin with? That coin is supposed to be out circulating not in someones binder. If I found one of my coins in someone elses binder your damn right I would be calling them a thief if they were trying to pass it off as theirs!
(side note) Why would you hang on to someone elses coin for two years? Was it accidentally lost in your gear?

brdad
08-24-2009, 06:44 AM
Why would anyone have someone elses coin in THEIR binder to begin with? That coin is supposed to be out circulating not in someones binder. If I found one of my coins in someone elses binder your damn right I would be calling them a thief if they were trying to pass it off as theirs!
(side note) Why would you hang on to someone elses coin for two years? Was it accidentally lost in your gear?

I think if I were a coin addict and was into possessing and/or moving many coins and TBs at a time, which some of the hard core TB/coin addicts do, a binder might be a great way to keep them together so they don't fall to the bottom of the caching bag. I might even have the coins I owned in there so people could discover them as well.

If a person did keep coins in a binder and claimed one as his and you were 100% sure it was not, then you would have more reason to accuse him, but that doesn't make him a thief of all the coins in his book.

The coin I had was on my monitor base for those two years. I looked at it nearly every day. If you look at the description page (http://www.geocaching.com/track/details.aspx?guid=0b4e3114-8946-4c8a-95a3-f5f474d7cf7c) you'll see it was designed to be put in a "quality not quantity" cache and to take your time doing so. Fortunately those are the only caches I like to hide, but it took me that long to place a cache I felt was worthy. However, the few TBs I have possesses - most of them I have held onto longer than I should have. TBs are often like a curse for me, as soon as I pick it up, things happen that prevent me from placing it anywhere. But I have not failed in the overall mission of one yet!

kayakerinme
08-24-2009, 09:25 AM
Why would anyone have someone elses coin in THEIR binder to begin with? That coin is supposed to be out circulating not in someones binder. If I found one of my coins in someone elses binder your damn right I would be calling them a thief if they were trying to pass it off as theirs!
(side note) Why would you hang on to someone elses coin for two years? Was it accidentally lost in your gear?
I have several coins in my discoverables box (I have a box rather than a binder) that are activated and owned under another geocaching.com account than mine. These include some of the Groundspeak coins like the Lackeys and the Volunteer coins, and the personal coins of some cachers that I've been given or for which I've traded. I've had some of these coins for more than three years and continue to bring them to events where they may be discovered by cachers if they choose to do so or simply viewed, or looked upon with disdain for being trapped in my discoverables box.

Opalsns
08-24-2009, 09:53 AM
I have several coins in my discoverables box (I have a box rather than a binder) that are activated and owned under another geocaching.com account than mine. These include some of the Groundspeak coins like the Lackeys and the Volunteer coins, and the personal coins of some cachers that I've been given or for which I've traded. I've had some of these coins for more than three years and continue to bring them to events where they may be discovered by cachers if they choose to do so or simply viewed, or looked upon with disdain for being trapped in my discoverables box.

I think we're branching out, LOL, I'm pretty sure EH is talking about people who collect Other cachers coins, with the Intent to never release them or not release them soon enough so they can travel freely. I would never put someoneelses coin in my binder, If I had one, but that's me. I either drop them on the "grab Table" . I just display my coins on the table in front of me!!

Kayakerinme, You have an AWESOME collection. I have had the privilidge of Trading with you. You have helped me ALOT with geocoins. And the coins in your box may not be under your name, But in the short time I've known you, I KNOW they are not in anyway stolen or horderered,!!!!!LOL.
It's Other People's Kids!!!

kayakerinme
08-24-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm pretty sure EH is talking about people who collect Other cachers coins, with the Intent to never release them or not release them soon enough so they can travel freely.
I hope that's the case but the language in the post does not appear to me to allow for that possibility; it seemed absolute to me when I read it this morning and wanted to provide an example to show what might occur.

WhereRWe?
08-24-2009, 04:55 PM
I hope that's the case but the language in the post does not appear to me to allow for that possibility; it seemed absolute to me when I read it this morning and wanted to provide an example to show what might occur.

Lets be clear about one thing. When talking about "other cacher's coins", we are talking about geocoins which have been activated and released by a specific cacher. I have had coins given to me - unactivated - by other cachers. If I activate them, they're now mine. If unactivated, they could appear in any collection without a whimper from me.

If I see a coin like one of my missing coins in a collection, and the number matches the one that is missing, I would assume that the person with the coin in the collection is a thief - or had better have a VERY good excuse why a coin that is supposed to be in a geocache is in his collection.

:):)

kayakerinme
08-24-2009, 06:48 PM
Lets be clear about one thing. When talking about "other cacher's coins", we are talking about geocoins which have been activated and released by a specific cacher.
I have coins that have been activated by someone other than me and which are in my discoverables collection, including two Moun10Bike coins that were released in the wild, and a two mystery coin that I got in a cache. I think these clearly fall into the category of "other cacher's coins".

Several folks have Delorme Eartha coins that were placed in caches that have been kept in binders; I do not have one of these.


I have had coins given to me - unactivated - by other cachers. If I activate them, they're now mine. If unactivated, they could appear in any collection without a whimper from me.

No problem there - I have lots of those.

WhereRWe?
08-24-2009, 06:57 PM
I have coins that have been activated by someone other than me and which are in my discoverables collection, including two Moun10Bike coins that were released in the wild, and a two mystery coin that I got in a cache. I think these clearly fall into the category of "other cacher's coins".


But you make my point...

If you have coins activated by someone else, and the log for the coin shows it as "in the hands of (the owner)", then there isn't a problem at all. The problem comes when you have a coin in your collection that was released by someone and is still listed as being "in XXX cache", that it gets questionable.

Which reminds me... RULost2? and I are going to Hawaii in October. Anyone have a coin/TB that they want to go to Hawaii, see me at either the Eustis or Last Cashe Bashe events. I guarantee that they WILL be placed in caches in Hawaii. :D:D

hollora
08-24-2009, 07:54 PM
But you make my point...

If you have coins activated by someone else, and the log for the coin shows it as "in the hands of (the owner)", then there isn't a problem at all. The problem comes when you have a coin in your collection that was released by someone and is still listed as being "in XXX cache", that it gets questionable.

Which reminds me... RULost2? and I are going to Hawaii in October. Anyone have a coin/TB that they want to go to Hawaii, see me at either the Eustis or Last Cashe Bashe events. I guarantee that they WILL be placed in caches in Hawaii. :D:D


Hum, reminds me to check on the ones I sent with my son and d-i-l a year or two ago - wonder where they are now?

masterson of the universe
08-24-2009, 09:35 PM
I have one I would love to re-release into the wild good and far away from Bangor. It disappeared for three years and randomly just showed up as a cacher found it in a bush along a trail and mailed it back to me. I've kept him for a couple months but am ready to send him back out. I'll try and make sure I get him to you at the Last Cache Bash. Thanks for the offer.

EvilHomer
08-25-2009, 07:20 PM
I think we're branching out, LOL, I'm pretty sure EH is talking about people who collect Other cachers coins, with the Intent to never release them or not release them soon enough so they can travel freely. I would never put someoneelses coin in my binder, If I had one, but that's me. I either drop them on the "grab Table" . I just display my coins on the table in front of me!!

Kayakerinme, You have an AWESOME collection. I have had the privilidge of Trading with you. You have helped me ALOT with geocoins. And the coins in your box may not be under your name, But in the short time I've known you, I KNOW they are not in anyway stolen or horderered,!!!!!LOL.
It's Other People's Kids!!!

BINGO! That is exactly what I was talking about. If you have a binder of your coins then they are YOUR coins. However if I found one of MY coins in YOUR binder and you were passing it off as yours, then there will be trouble.

mainehockeyfan
09-02-2009, 03:33 PM
My suggestion is to make caches where you are hoping to attract coins and TBs member-only caches. Each summer I do some caching out in San Diego and many of the caches out there are members only. What do you think?

squirrelcache
09-02-2009, 05:03 PM
I've said that the game has Plenty of caches out there now for people to get an introduction. I'd think that any cache you care about.....esp. those probable of muggles.....should be member only. The ones that want to draw coins/TBs should be a priority for members only.

dubord207
09-02-2009, 05:07 PM
With all the duplicate geocoin club coins I have I'm excited to have a way to place a few with less of a chance to get stolen. Anybody have good or bad results from caches placed as member only?

hide_from_the_kids
09-02-2009, 05:29 PM
my jamie's pond cache is members only and i believe all coins and tbs' that have been there have all been safe of course dan can attest it is hard to find. after looking at the history for that cache and checking on each tb/coin everything has been kept moving. so i feel members only caches might be an answer to deter theft/muggles.

Haffy
09-02-2009, 06:42 PM
With all the duplicate geocoin club coins I have I'm excited to have a way to place a few with less of a chance to get stolen. Anybody have good or bad results from caches placed as member only?

My Cache Across America cache I made for members only at the onset as I had some really nice swag and some geocoins that I didn't want muggled. It worked out really well and after a month or so when all the good swag and coins had left I turned it back to a regular cache.