View Full Version : What makes an irresponsible cacher / cache hider?



brdad
09-04-2009, 08:16 PM
I'm starting this thread in an attempt to help steer another thread back onto the topic of cache permissions (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?p=56822). One of my beliefs is that when a cacher is in a hurry to hunt or hide a cache, there is an increase in the probability of that person knowingly or unknowingly trespassing, tearing apart locations, or making other mistakes or errors in judgment which can impact Geocaching. Feel free to use this thread to reflect on that claim or to display others ways we as cache finders or hiders can be irresponsible and perhaps what can be done to minimize the risk.

These are some examples listed in the other thread:


For those who haven't seen it.....on August 29th it was published. "The New Hampshire Bureau of Trails said 12,000 acres of forest in the Ossipee Mountains region have been closed to the public due to irresponsible trail users."

We've all seen many times where caches have been placed in sensitive areas, and the FTF cachers trample the whole area to find it. It doesn't help when someone's new to the game and doesn't have good equipment or understand proper and wise placement. Then it doesn't take long before the geo-trail is ground in to stay for a long time after it's abandoned. Such geo-trails are off-trail and against most trail use policies.

Guess this story is a Huge reminder to us all to keep an eye out, and act ethically in our caching. The placement of a cache might be questionable....that doesn't mean we have to support that wrong. Most of us are great about helping to right the wrong.

Learn to cache.... Love to cache...... Help others to learn.... Help others to Love it


We went to Eustis last year to do some of the new caches put out along with the old.
At one GRC 2 car loads of cachers from Canada, down for the event showed up at the cache we were doing . We were signing the log in the car. We told them we had it and one of them came to the truck to get it. We left and went to the next one , before we finished signing it, They showed up right behind us again. We gave them the cache and went to the next, MOOSELOOK. A full size cache a little in the woods. We walked in around the sand piles and headed up the "trail" area.
Yup, They they were pulling in and Ran from the cars up and over and around and the group went running by us through the woods. They were still looking for it when we got to GZ and within seconds Bubba said , found it. Just as he reached for it , one of the group stepped infront of him to reach for the cache. Bubba stepped on the cache and said, I found it , I'll go through it first. Bubba is the calm one. I would have shoved him on his a_ _.
We signed the log and gave them the cache and turned to go back to the truck, Within seconds 3 of the Canada group Charged passed us racing each other back to their vehicles. Some may have noticed the trampled areas around there at that time.
They really made caching there that day unenjoyable , so we left.

And before anyone gets their Granny Panties in a giant wadd......

They WERE from Canada and I don't know their names or I wouldn't have used the term Canadian Cachers, AND , I am not acusing Any Canadian Cachers of Anything. I'm just referencing to the " Rush and Trample" approach we saw that day. I have never seen it before or again.!!

Opalsns


At a fishing spot in Boothbay....I sat on the rocks well away from GZ to protect integrity should someone come along. Sure enough....an out of State car pulled up and one of us gave the muggle alert in time before a couple jumped out. The guy looking at his brand new 60csx walked right over to where it was.....then yelled....it's missing. I was appalled and almost didn't speak up. I said "you looking for this"!? He came over and signed the log. Then went into talking about 356 finds on his 90th day of caching. Then went into bragging about stealth and showed us his tools of the game. I about laughed in his face... though remained polite. I gave him some friendly and subtle reminders before he tore off down the road, after stating his Goal before the sun went down in an hour. :( He didn't care about the caches.......only the numbers. I was glad I spoke up about how much we Mainers love our caches, and our ethical/careful practices on All caches, not just the micro/nanos in the city. ;) Reminders can be a wonderful thing......... though delivery often makes the difference of how well it's received, if at all.

Ekidokai
09-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Stealth is sorely lacking in many hunters that I've seen.

brdad
09-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Stealth is sorely lacking in many hunters that I've seen.

That is actually a great angle on the subject. In the beginning, I would do anything not to be noticed. I would refrain from doing a cache or otherwise hide or disguise myself so I would not be noticed. Now, especially with urban caches I tend to just look for it so I hopefully appear less like I am doing something illegal and more like I am supposed to be there, and if I am approached by a store owner or other authority I will speak up as if what I am doing is legal and face the consequences but feel good knowing I was truthful. If there are people nearby I feel might plunder the cache, I might refrain from doing it, but if I feel they might like caching I am more likely to speak right up.

pm28570
09-04-2009, 08:46 PM
In general, I will attempt to be as low key or stealthy as possible. Not so much to be not noticed, but so that the cache does not get muggled.



That is actually a great angle on the subject. In the beginning, I would do anything not to be noticed. I would refrain from doing a cache or otherwise hide or disguise myself so I would not be noticed. Now, especially with urban caches I tend to just look for it so I hopefully appear less like I am doing something illegal and more like I am supposed to be there, and if I am approached by a store owner or other authority I will speak up as if what I am doing is legal and face the consequences but feel good knowing I was truthful. If there are people nearby I feel might plunder the cache, I might refrain from doing it, but if I feel they might like caching I am more likely to speak right up.

hollora
09-04-2009, 08:55 PM
"Rush and Trample", as described by Opalsns, is quite commonly seen at Mega Events or this has been my observation. I agree, I hate this - and to me it is even rude.

I won't let it ruin my caching or my time - just hang back and they will be long on down the road, but, it does make for a bit of a not so satisfying caching time while they are near. This is a game and everyone plays it their own way. I am sure if we were to go beyond the borders of North America we would find that folks on other Contenients cache differently too.

When a hide has been done which is hard, sneaky, done to devise and fool.......the cache hider needs to consider where the inexperience cacher or even a more experienced one would look. Also, the hint may make a huge difference. Don't, IMHO, make a cryptic hint, which in itself is a puzzle to solve and then wonder why folks can't find the cache, walk all over the moss, break down the branches wandering, tear up the moss poking their hands in places they shouldn't be....and.....well, you get the picture.

The CO shouldn't blame the hunter who is looking high, poking low, walking around, moving sticks, branches and rolling over logs when they just can't find it. Not if in their cache description, coords and hints enough tools haven't been provided for the average cacher. I have even redesigned cache pages based upon folks feedback to me.

I like it when I know - what the container is I am looking for and there is a non-cryptic reasonable hint if I can't find it. If your coords are good - that is all I should need. Well, that and good reception with my GPSr.

I do appreciate parking coords, if necessary, and if the route to the area if it is a bit sketchy - it's nice if you provide some guidance. I like knowing you placed it with permission and do appreciate you posting the information and I do use the cache attributes you post. ie - I used the snowflake icon in the winter to rule out what I may or may not hunt for.

Thank you BRDad for starting this tread - and I was ok with what happened to the "permission one" I started......but it's better to have a couple of threads for the different topics, I think, anyway.

Have a safe Labor Day weekend Everyone! Heads up and be safe out there!

squirrelcache
09-04-2009, 10:03 PM
My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090507-F-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow. ;)

hollora
09-04-2009, 10:09 PM
My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090507-F-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow. ;)

;-) and no gun steel black - just dusty, desert sand yellow and brown! Not sure which is the most depressing.

Cache on - cache happy!

Haffy
09-05-2009, 12:08 AM
My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photodb/photos/090507-F-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow. ;)

Hey is that the team you've got entered in the geo rally? :eek:

squirrelcache
09-05-2009, 01:09 AM
I'm not at liberty to discuss my Team's Geo-Rallye strategy ;) If the new suits come in...things will be so stealthy that no one will be any the wiser. Can't defend against what you can't see :D

brdad
09-05-2009, 06:00 AM
Yesterday I was chatting with the guy who broke the record for caches in a day - 413 of them. I asked him how many he remembered - he replied "two". And while remembering only two has nothing at all to do with with being irresponsible, it made me feel good that my caches pretty much force a person to remember them in some capacity - there is no way you can just do any of them so quickly that two days later you can't recall it.

So perhaps in my mind it's better for a cache hider to hide a memory than it is a number. But, it's also much less likely someone could find 413 memorable caches in one day. Heck, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

As far as I know, that day went without a hitch, probably as a result of responsible caching. But I have heard other stories that are quite the contrary and more like the ones I quoted in my first post.

TRF
09-05-2009, 06:36 AM
What makes an irresponsible cacher / cache hider? (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4156)

Coffee, lack of coffee!! In some case Beer, lack of Beer!! :-)

Opalsns
09-05-2009, 06:59 AM
Coffee, lack of coffee!! In some case Beer, lack of Beer!! :-)

True That!!!!!!!!!Tee Hee


And I agree with Hollora re: What type of cache it is. Not just the size but container ...

Micro = How micro , we've seen the size of a button to film containers and pill bottles.

For me , a Tweeny in caching years, It helps , because it makes me stop and think before going in, like, a film canaster won't fit in that knot hole, but a button would, etc...

And a Full size ammo can won't fit where a smaller ammo can or average Lock and Lock would.

Opalsns
09-05-2009, 07:01 AM
I'm not at liberty to discuss my Team's Geo-Rallye strategy ;) If the new suits come in...things will be so stealthy that no one will be any the wiser. Can't defend against what you can't see :D

Just don't forget to make the arms movable in those Tree siuts, LOL!!

TeamHorwich
09-05-2009, 07:38 AM
http://emcofnorthridge.wordpress.com/2009/09/03/413-geocaches-in-24-hours-yes-we-did-it/

dubord207
09-05-2009, 08:18 AM
First of all, thanks to Lois and Dave for these two threads. I hope more folks chime in and I hope you newbie-lurkers out there are getting some helpful info about cache placement.

I have personally made my caches relatively easy to find. Those that have done then know that the Yorktown caches are not hard to find, just a bit hard to get to depending on how much rain we've had. My philosophy is that if the cache is placed so you can't see it when you're at GZ, ie, in a rock wall behiind a rock, then there needs to be a hint that puts the finder on the cache. Some will say that takes the fun out it but if you're being honest a find will give you more satisfaction then a DNF. Granted, Di and I have had a good time and gotten a lot of exercise on some that stumped us, but the idea is to find the cache and not confound the cacher.

We see a lot of coords that aren't very close. Some of this is because folks don't know how to use the "average" feature on their GPS or don't wait a few minutes for their unit to get a solid fix. I bet there are folks right now wondering " Average, what's that?" Not all units have it. I use my trusty Garmin 60csx for placement and get rewarded with posts that comment "Coords spot on!" I like that!

Tree cover is always an issue if there is some. If you have tree cover, then the next cacher may not get close to your cache so put out a solid hint. If you just jammed a match container into the center of a rotten stump, describe the stump if the tree cover is thick. If you say "Stumped" as your hint and there's stumps everywhere, you might offer the diameter of the stump if the tree cover will make reception poor.

And tree cover is not the only issue. In urban settings if the cache is up against the side of a 6 story building, or in a 10 foot high retaiining wall, then the GPS can't "see" any satellites on the opposite side of the structure and you're not going to get a good fix. So the solution is a good hint.

I look at all the logs on my caches and have amended hints and ratings after logs that suggest the cache isn't as easy as I guessed it would be. This is the only fair thing to do. If you enjoy frustrating fellow cachers, then post that and we can stay away from your caches.

Which leads to my personal conclusion that destructive caching is as much the responsibility of the cache owner as the cache seeker. There's lots of clever caches out there that are a challenge to find but can be found without destroying an area. A note that says "No need to move rocks or disturb anything" is a thoughtful and responsible note.

Ekidokai
09-05-2009, 08:27 AM
Holy crap!

brdad
09-05-2009, 08:42 AM
We see a lot of coords that aren't very close. Some of this is because folks don't know how to use the "average" feature on their GPS or don't wait a few minutes for their unit to get a solid fix. I bet there are folks right now wondering " Average, what's that?" Not all units have it. I use my trusty Garmin 60csx for placement and get rewarded with posts that comment "Coords spot on!" I like that!

I've never had a GPSr that averaged. I do have a program on my laptop which can average when it has a GPSr connected to it as well as giving loads of other geeky information. I used it as well as an amplified antenna in order to get a decent signal for Battleship. All the other caches I averaged the old fashioned way - I went out to the cache location on several different times and days and waited for decent accuracy and wrote down the coordinates. Every trip I averaged the readings and then visited the next time with my new numbers as if I was a cacher and saw how close it got me. IMO this technique is even better than the averaging feature on a GPSr because if you wait for another time you get an entirely different set of satellites. Plus, it verifies you wrote everything down correctly! But averaging GPSrs are great because they will eliminate a false reading you were not aware of.

squirrelcache
09-05-2009, 09:00 AM
I think the terms "irresponsible cacher/C.O." can be a bit heavy.......... there are just things that can/could be done differently to Improve upon a situation. None of us knows it all....or gets it correct all the time.

Some great points are being made about proper hints and descriptions. No matter how cautious and responsible a cacher is.....it's the number of folks searching in the wrong places that often Wrecks a gorgeous area. It's not always tall vegetation that takes the hit either. There are lichens and mosses that Can't recover from being stepped on once...let alone all the time. And then you have erosion issues. It's hard to think Everything through.... for sure. Experience and relying on that of others is very important.

I came across a C.O. recently that didn't respect cachers comments and experiences w/his new caches. They're an infant in the scope of the game w/quite a few less than 100 found, and didn't seem open to help. I reminded them of that when they commented on how unique their hide was to the area. I kindly stated that there are Many of those hides out there ;)

Opalsns
09-05-2009, 09:51 AM
I still have my trusty "Ol' Yellah" that I will never Part with and I agree that I like it when they log, Coords Right On. One thing I do, And I don't even know if it matters to the exactness but I hold the GPSr right against against the cache for a few seconds, wether it's Up or on the ground and then Mark it.

Opalsns
09-05-2009, 07:05 PM
I just placed a new cache and decided to make it Premium only. I've never done this before, and Noticed an AUDIT link under the coords. It shows who's been looking up your cache. Is this new???? Does this hinder mugglage?
Sorry.
I didn't know where to ask this question .

Opalsns

brdad
09-05-2009, 07:42 PM
I just placed a new cache and decided to make it Premium only. I've never done this before, and Noticed an AUDIT link under the coords. It shows who's been looking up your cache. Is this new???? Does this hinder mugglage?
Sorry.
I didn't know where to ask this question .

Opalsns

IIRC the audits have been a benefit of MOCs since they were implemented. It does prevent non-members and non-paying members from obtaining the coordinates and other information of your cache.

Remember, however, that more people than are listed in your audit have access to your cache information. I as well as some other cachers rarely visit gc.com's cache pages and obtain our information via Pocket Queries. Of course, in theory only paying members can get PQs.

lexmano
09-05-2009, 09:17 PM
I just placed a new cache and decided to make it Premium only. I've never done this before, and Noticed an AUDIT link under the coords. It shows who's been looking up your cache. Is this new???? Does this hinder mugglage?
Sorry.
I didn't know where to ask this question .

Opalsns

My first experience was when Kacky e-mailed me to tell me there was problem with a new cache she had placed that she knew I had been looking at. I was stunned that she knew I had been looking and then learned how it worked.

Now all tough puzzle caches that I publish I use the Audit Log to see who is looking at the puzzle, is in the area, but not finding or logging. If they are looking at it a lot I e-mail or call them offering hints or direction on the solution.

Also most of my caches are initially published as Members only. I do this for two reasons. First, I want to limit the FTF competition in Southern Maine to members only. Second I really enjoy seeing who is looking at the cache page and when. After a couple of weeks I will remove the members only restriction as the FTF is done.

hollora
09-06-2009, 01:30 AM
I just placed a new cache and decided to make it Premium only. I've never done this before, and Noticed an AUDIT link under the coords. It shows who's been looking up your cache. Is this new???? Does this hinder mugglage?
Sorry.
I didn't know where to ask this question .

Opalsns

No the feature is not new as posted by others. Have been a "Premium" for a while, because of using GSAK, and haven't seen your cache publication, nor, can I find it.

Is this the cache on your property where, (quote from a GC.com forum thread) "I pulled them all and I am putting a new one on my property within gunshot range!!! I'm not kidding." ? Just wondering as, if so, probably no need to pursue finding the coords - although I am not guilty of anything - if there is a threat - I am out of here and certainly where I would not advise others to go.

As for your question on muggles and this addition to your cache page - I will leave the answer to others. I do know, sometimes even the small $ per year for the membership are not in the budget of small families.

For me - we can get all hung up on loosing a few dollars worth of stuff and get all upset. Of just go with the flow, replace what is lost and move on. The only thing which changes that for me is when someone infringes on my personal space as happened this summer at my home.

What happened constituted an attack. No, I won't sit with a gun in my picture window. I just posted my property and removed the caches which were there, for the good of the cachers, who I believe had nothing to do with what occured.

You see - it can happen to anyone, anywhere and it may or may not be cache or caching related.............

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 04:51 AM
No the feature is not new as posted by others. Have been a "Premium" for a while, because of using GSAK, and haven't seen your cache publication, nor, can I find it.

Is this the cache on your property where, (quote from a GC.com forum thread) "I pulled them all and I am putting a new one on my property within gunshot range!!! I'm not kidding." ? Just wondering as, if so, probably no need to pursue finding the coords - although I am not guilty of anything - if there is a threat - I am out of here and certainly where I would not advise others to go.

As for your question on muggles and this addition to your cache page - I will leave the answer to others. I do know, sometimes even the small $ per year for the membership are not in the budget of small families.

For me - we can get all hung up on loosing a few dollars worth of stuff and get all upset. Of just go with the flow, replace what is lost and move on. The only thing which changes that for me is when someone infringes on my personal space as happened this summer at my home.

What happened constituted an attack. No, I won't sit with a gun in my picture window. I just posted my property and removed the caches which were there, for the good of the cachers, who I believe had nothing to do with what occured.

You see - it can happen to anyone, anywhere and it may or may not be cache or caching related.............

Yup,
My Personal Space!!
It's the cache on my property and when Tat publishes it, You will see it.
Yup, I said gun shot range, and meant it. My property has been posted since I moved here because my house is in a prime hunting location and my family and nieghbor are the only ones allowed to hunt here. If you come to my cache to steal it , crush it or destroy it in some way, you'll get a load of rock salt in your Butt, If not then there isn't a threat. And If your "ADVISING" folks not to do my cache (?????) then advise them to not go into any woods during hunting season either.
The question was about a link and was answered twice before you post and you didn't even answer what was asked.
Way to shoot the Peace Dove , Hollora !?!?!?!??!?!!???????????????????????????????

squirrelcache
09-06-2009, 06:01 AM
...... Also most of my caches are initially published as Members only. I do this for two reasons. ......

That's a good idea and didn't know it could be done....list for members only...then lift that status later. Cool.

dubord207
09-06-2009, 06:50 AM
Now for a little unsolicited advice: In Maine the use of force, deadly or otherwise, has to be the equivalent of what force is being used against you. If you're in a fist fight, you can't pull out a knife. If somebody is using deadly force against you, you can use deadly force to protect yourself.

But if somebody is damaging your personal property, breaking into your car in your yard, messing with a cache, you will end up in jail if you blast them with rock salt, guaranteed. If there's a great concern that somebody would mess with your cache, I wouldn't place it. I've done most if not all your other fun caches, have there been problems other then the coin swiping we've been discussing?

brdad
09-06-2009, 07:02 AM
First, I want to limit the FTF competition in Southern Maine to members only.

Why don't you want non-paying members to log an FTF on your cache? I'm not saying you're wrong, but I'm not sure I see much reasoning for limiting FTF. It also seems that in a cache dense area filled with FTF hounds who are likely already premium members with notifications and all the other tools, that it would be very unlikely a non-paying member would get FTF.

I can see making a MOC permanently if you want to keep non-paying member TB thieves away from your caches. I can see thinking it might prompt people to obtain a premium membership - but generally they would not even know those caches exist.

..........

Someone in chat asked me a question last night regarding MOCs, so I will mention it again for anyone curious. It is possible for a non-paying member to log a MOC. Someone has to give them the cache information, but gc.com intentionally left a backdoor so a non-paying member could log these caches.

WhereRWe?
09-06-2009, 07:05 AM
I do know, sometimes even the small $ per year for the membership are not in the budget of small families.


Nuts! If someone has the money for a GPSr, computer, printer and/or PDA, and the gas to go riding around looking for geocaches, they certainly can afford $2.50 a month (less than the cost of one gallon of gas) for premium membership.

brdad
09-06-2009, 07:08 AM
While not explicitly in the guidelines, I would think that an approver might hesitate to publish a cache at a location where the threatening of any person (cacher or non-cacher) accessing that cache has been stated. Is our resident approver paying attention to this thread? ;)
.....


Nuts! If someone has the money for a GPSr, computer, printer and/or PDA, and the gas to go riding around looking for geocaches, they certainly can afford $2.50 a month (less than the cost of one gallon of gas) for premium membership.

I have to somewhat disagree with this. There are situations where people might have been given a GPS, use the computer at the library, etc., who may not have or at minimal can not justify the extra expenditure.

However, if you just bought the newest GPS, have a supercomputer, and drive your motor home from cache to cache, quit your crying and pay up!

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 07:33 AM
Now for a little unsolicited advice: In Maine the use of force, deadly or otherwise, has to be the equivalent of what force is being used against you. If you're in a fist fight, you can't pull out a knife. If somebody is using deadly force against you, you can use deadly force to protect yourself.

But if somebody is damaging your personal property, breaking into your car in your yard, messing with a cache, you will end up in jail if you blast them with rock salt, guaranteed. If there's a great concern that somebody would mess with your cache, I wouldn't place it. I've done most if not all your other fun caches, have there been problems other then the coin swiping we've been discussing?

Actually Dan,
If you re read You'll see there wasn't any reason for Hollora to say That except to cause trouble, and she did it on my thread on GC.COM yesterday also.
If she was concerned about something, she could have asked me, but instead has chose to ONCE AGAIN make me look bad
If someone comes on MY land to cause Harm or foul in anyway and I catch them, I won't need a gun, That is a GUARENTEE!! And I don't think I'm the only one here that feels that way.
I've never been to Jail or committed any crime,But I will defend me and mine to the end!!!!It's funny how bad doers get all the legal protection ?!?!

After all the talk about Stings and Camoed people hiding with spiked trail bats to catch and shoot coin thieves, you chose to say something to me?
Curious????

And Yes, There has been more than coin swiping. I didn't have coins swiped .My caches were destroyed, put out in the open or taken, I chose to archive Oh Deer for this reason and the fact that the Box is deteriorating and the little hill can be slick when wet.
I like you alot Dan and You must know that by now. I would appreciate it if you would use the knowledge that you have to realize this was a tactic of hers, used to get me into arguments with others on this thread, AGAIN.
But I'm not going to.
Dan you and your wife are some of the sweetest people I've talked to.
There is no " THREAT " to anyone. Please don't encourage her. And If you didn't get a CC: email from her yet, Check again!
It's a Ploy, please let it go.
Thank You,
Respectfully,
Opalsns

shuman road searchers
09-06-2009, 07:40 AM
I think that is a shame! That was one of your caches that I enjoyed the most! It was that cache that gave me the idea for one of mine!:D

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 08:08 AM
I think that is a shame! That was one of your caches that I enjoyed the most! It was that cache that gave me the idea for one of mine!:D

Oh Thank You. It'll be back as Oh Reindeer for Christmas, It'll be a 5 gal. filled with gifts for kids! They're the coolist cachers of all!!! I just want to wait till the Bung hole that's doing these things to Grow up!!! It seems to happen everywhere , but then stops, so I'll wait, Then I'll p[lace a few more in different areas. I want to get more Handi capable caches out there and am going to try to do something Brdad had auggested about an Ammo Can on a rope!!!!!!!
Once the bugs die down, I'll get out there. I'm curious to see your cache!!! LOL!!!
Thanx,
Opalsns

Haffy
09-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Nuts! If someone has the money for a GPSr, computer, printer and/or PDA, and the gas to go riding around looking for geocaches, they certainly can afford $2.50 a month (less than the cost of one gallon of gas) for premium membership.

Or even the membership of the $5 or $10 dollars to join this site...:confused:

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 09:39 AM
Or even the membership of the $5 or $10 dollars to join this site...:confused:

Haffy,
I think WhereRwe? is a donating member, and it's 15.00 now!!!!!


Opalsns

Haffy
09-06-2009, 10:00 AM
I wasn't referring to Bruce. And I'm sure Rick would accept any donation. I didn't think there was a set limit. Remember the word "DONATION".

WhereRWe?
09-06-2009, 10:20 AM
Or even the membership of the $5 or $10 dollars to join this site...:confused:

Well, I'm surprised that more of the "regulars" that participate in the discussions don't contribute, but I'd never be be one to suggest a membership "fee" to join this site. (Although the "suggested donation" for people "from away" should be higher...)

brdad
09-06-2009, 10:46 AM
I have set up a forum thread for you all to discuss membership fees. :p

Why do you /don't you donate to this web site? (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?p=56895)

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 10:47 AM
I wasn't referring to Bruce. And I'm sure Rick would accept any donation. I didn't think there was a set limit. Remember the word "DONATION".

Yup and When I made My DONATION, it gave me the option of 15.00 or 25.00 , I believe was the higher amount. I DONATED 15.00

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 10:49 AM
Sorry BrDad,
I was writing when your post came up, I'll move it!!

brdad
09-06-2009, 10:52 AM
Sorry BrDad,
I was writing when your post came up, I'll move it!!

Don't worry about it, steering a thread is rarely a sharp corner!

Ekidokai
09-06-2009, 11:47 AM
Wow, my membership just ran out and I only had two options, $10 or $15. I wanted to make it an even $20 but could not.

Opalsns
09-06-2009, 01:08 PM
Wow, my membership just ran out and I only had two options, $10 or $15. I wanted to make it an even $20 but could not.

I think your right.. it went from $5 or $10 to 10$ or $15 .I got my numbers wrong,good save, E, I knew It went up this year.

But any way the thing we were talking about was wether it let you pay less,like you pay what you want because it's a DONATION. I didn't notice, did you when you renewed?? Was there a place to enter another amount?

edited to add It must be 10.00 not 15 I paid. i'll have to check PPal

Ekidokai
09-06-2009, 01:46 PM
No, there was no easy way to do it, that I could see anyway.

But to get back to topic, I found a place that needs a cache. A friend told me there use to be a cache there. Is there a way to find out if there was a cache that has been archived by searching the area somehow? I don't want to step on anyones toes or stir up bad feelings?

I want to be responsible. This doesn't happen often so I feel I should take advantage.

brdad
09-06-2009, 02:06 PM
No, there was no easy way to do it, that I could see anyway.

But to get back to topic, I found a place that needs a cache. A friend told me there use to be a cache there. Is there a way to find out if there was a cache that has been archived by searching the area somehow? I don't want to step on anyones toes or stir up bad feelings?

I want to be responsible. This doesn't happen often so I feel I should take advantage.

Send me a PM or catch me in chat with coords or approximate area and I'll send you back a list of any archived ones there. Sometimes looking at the logs of archived caches gives an indication of whether the spot is a good one or not.

TRF
09-06-2009, 02:40 PM
No, there was no easy way to do it, that I could see anyway.

But to get back to topic, I found a place that needs a cache. A friend told me there use to be a cache there. Is there a way to find out if there was a cache that has been archived by searching the area somehow? I don't want to step on anyones toes or stir up bad feelings?

I want to be responsible. This doesn't happen often so I feel I should take advantage.

As others , I have maintained Gsak for a long time and have almost 1100 archived caches in it from Just the state of Maine. There is a good chance that I may have it.

firefighterjake
09-09-2009, 08:38 AM
That is actually a great angle on the subject. In the beginning, I would do anything not to be noticed. I would refrain from doing a cache or otherwise hide or disguise myself so I would not be noticed. Now, especially with urban caches I tend to just look for it so I hopefully appear less like I am doing something illegal and more like I am supposed to be there, and if I am approached by a store owner or other authority I will speak up as if what I am doing is legal and face the consequences but feel good knowing I was truthful. If there are people nearby I feel might plunder the cache, I might refrain from doing it, but if I feel they might like caching I am more likely to speak right up.

Same here . . . just like Laughing Terry's caches . . . sometimes the best way to hide is to do everything in plain sight . . . attempting to be stealthy sometimes calls more attention to one self vs. just being upfront and open about what you're doing.

And like you . . . I exercise some caution if folks are around . . . some of this is a judgment call, but if it seems as though there are folks who might be more inclined to mess with a cache vs. someone who might just be curious I move on.

Opalsns
09-09-2009, 09:31 AM
[QUOTE=hollora;56869]No the feature is not new as posted by others. Have been a "Premium" for a while, because of using GSAK, and haven't seen your cache publication, nor, can I find it.

Is this the cache on your property where, (quote from a GC.com forum thread) "I pulled them all and I am putting a new one on my property within gunshot range!!! I'm not kidding." ? Just wondering as, if so, probably no need to pursue finding the coords - although I am not guilty of anything - if there is a threat - I am out of here and certainly where I would not advise others to go.

[QUOTE]


And now,
The cache I placed on the 5th , still is not published. Although caches placed on the 6th 7th and 8th have ALREADY been published.

I wrote TAT to find out why.... No Response

I sent a SECOND email to TAT and got this response ....


Please keep in mind that our cache reviewers are volunteers. Sometimes other things in their lives cause listings to be delayed a bit. They like to go out and find geocaches, too! You may experience longer than normal waiting time during, for example, the week following a holiday or just after a large geocaching event. We ask for your patience.

MainePublisher
geocaching.com volunteer reviewer for ME

User's Profile:
http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?guid=541f95b1-39af-428d-be1d-b011916d9bd6

I returned with this email....



TaT,
I totally understand you have things to do and i respect that.
My concern is ...

.. My cache was Placed on the 5th and you have already published caches that were placed on the 6th and 7th . So You can see why I am wondering why it wasn't published as of 9-8-09

Respectfully

Opalsns


and Tat emailed me back this response .......


Greetings Opalsns,

If you believe that I've acted inappropriately, Groundspeak encourages you to send an email with complete details, waypoint name (GC*****) and a link to the cache, to Groundspeak’s special address for this purpose: appeals@geocaching.com.

Thanks again for understanding,

MainePublisher
geocaching.com volunteer reviewer for ME


What's all this about????????????
Why do I have to repport Tat in order to get a cache published.



On GC.COM, Sept 6, on my thread , HOLLORA wrote. ...


"I get notices of new caches within 100 miles of my homebase and am a Premium member. Never saw your cache published. Wonder why? "



No I don't wonder Why, I believe I KNOW why.


Thanx so much for helping Destroy another one of my caches.


Unbelievable

Opalsns

squirrelcache
09-09-2009, 11:19 AM
Hmmmm..........Universe..........Universal Laws....... Mysterious Happenings all around.

It's very hard for us to see our own reflections in life. That's why we have friends/family. Sociologists say that people close to us are our "mirrors" in life. It's not up to us to point fingers or pass judgements on others. Really we don't need to...The Universe does a great job of giving each and every one of us reminders along the way.

One thing's for sure.....it'll work itself out in time. Things usually do.

Opalsns
09-09-2009, 12:08 PM
Hmmmm..........Universe..........Universal Laws....... Mysterious Happenings all around.

It's very hard for us to see our own reflections in life. That's why we have friends/family. Sociologists say that people close to us are our "mirrors" in life. It's not up to us to point fingers or pass judgements on others. Really we don't need to...The Universe does a great job of giving each and every one of us reminders along the way.

One thing's for sure.....it'll work itself out in time. Things usually do.


Not really sure what you are trying to say here, But If You know something about what's been happening, Please , Please ,Please, let us all know.
Thank You,
Opalsns

squirrelcache
09-09-2009, 12:54 PM
I don't know a thing......not logically anyway ;) Perhaps you're being paranoid....I just hope you're not acting premature, unecessarily upsetting yourself and/or others over something simple.

I might have issue if I were the reviewer. Just re-read your post to do w/firearms and intent, which isn't smart or appropirate at all in this forum, let alone one to do w/self defense. Does eminent danger sound familiar!? That has nothing to do w/protection of property. I know I'd take my time assessing whether your cache placement is appropriate. If you posted those comments on GC.com forums as well...perhaps it goes further up than the State level of reviewing and accepting the placement.

We all make mistakes and have to take responsibility for them if we plan to move on in a healthy manner. If you're having so many challenges w/caching and the local community, maybe it's not a good fit. :( It does happen. Have you checked out other options like Buxley's!? http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/

We all have great qualities and things to contribute to a community. Your attitude & antagonistic postings on other threads aren't very becoming. Are you sure people really know how to take you? The many negative interactions would lead me to believe that something's off. We're all here to have fun...and I for one will say it's not Very fun to read many of the Dramatic and inappropriate postings. Personal politics don't belong in the game of geocaching. Let's not insist otherwise.

Many people's bark is louder than their bite.......however, can you really take the chance!?

Relax and roll w/it. More often than not......we're our own worst enemy ;)

Opalsns
09-09-2009, 02:05 PM
I don't know a thing......not logically anyway ;) Perhaps you're being paranoid....I just hope you're not acting premature, unecessarily upsetting yourself and/or others over something simple.

I might have issue if I were the reviewer. Just re-read your post to do w/firearms and intent, which isn't smart or appropirate at all in this forum, let alone one to do w/self defense. Does eminent danger sound familiar!? That has nothing to do w/protection of property. I know I'd take my time assessing whether your cache placement is appropriate. If you posted those comments on GC.com forums as well...perhaps it goes further up than the State level of reviewing and accepting the placement.

We all make mistakes and have to take responsibility for them if we plan to move on in a healthy manner. If you're having so many challenges w/caching and the local community, maybe it's not a good fit. :( It does happen. Have you checked out other options like Buxley's!? http://www.brillig.com/geocaching/


We all have great qualities and things to contribute to a community. Your attitude & antagonistic postings on other threads aren't very becoming. Are you sure people really know how to take you? The many negative interactions would lead me to believe that something's off. We're all here to have fun...and I for one will say it's not Very fun to read many of the Dramatic and inappropriate postings. Personal politics don't belong in the game of geocaching. Let's not insist otherwise.

Many people's bark is louder than their bite.......however, can you really take the chance!?

Relax and roll w/it. More often than not......we're our own worst enemy ;)

Oh Ok !
Thanx
Opalsns

EvilHomer
09-09-2009, 06:43 PM
I like cake! :)

EvilHomer
09-09-2009, 06:45 PM
I think some people need to take a break and take a deeeep breath!

WhereRWe?
09-09-2009, 06:53 PM
I think some people need to take a break and take a deeeep breath!

Sheesh! I do so much agree! TAT is one of the friendliest, most respected, and likable geocachers in Maine. The fact that he was selected as "MaineApprover" reflects that. Undoubtedly, "The Crow" has never met TAT, nor conversed with him. :D:D

dubord207
09-09-2009, 06:56 PM
I think the post by squirrelcache was spot on and my sense from Patty's short response is that it hit home with her as well. I'm hoping that cool heads will prevail and the negativity can fade away. Life's too short to get overly worked up by words on a computer screen. We can all play nice together if we put forward the effort.

brdad
09-09-2009, 07:16 PM
I agree. A+ post by squirrelcache. A thoughtful post indeed.
.............

Back on track....

Irresponsible might be a harsh word, but I don't think it is responsible to hide a cache knowing if something goes wrong with it, you will most likely archive it. There are times when you didn't realize it was a bad spot, but oftentimes caches are hidden with this intention, sometimes the intent to archive at the first problem is even mentioned in the description or log. And no, I do not think this is a widespread problem.

What do you think?

squirrelcache
09-10-2009, 07:05 AM
I never thought about the intent to archive when placing, but a CO. I know that's a huge reason why I've not placed any yet. I want to make sure they get their best chance to survive. I know.....I probably over-think it. Myself, the kids, and another caching family have literally gone on cache placing trips to discuss where and what might be placed. We actually keep a list of ideas. I also have a Huge bin of containers and supplies that I'm not supposed to be adding to unless I start putting some out.....yeah right!

I've noticed that alot of folks haven't hesitated to place a cache on their property. I personally don't believe it to be good security. And have heard that I'm not the oly one who's hesitant to go find them. Secondly....I'm not sure it gives anymore chance of a longer lifespan. What it does give you is more opportunity for rants when you can't/don't maintain it!! :)

brdad
09-10-2009, 07:30 AM
Better to over-think than under-think! I have never placed any of my caches on a whim, I bet every one took at least a month to decide on the details and hide it. A few a lot longer. And perhaps that helps, they have all lasted with less maintenance than I suspected.

firefighterjake
09-10-2009, 07:47 AM
I like cake! :)

I prefer pie . . . but wouldn't pass up on eating cake. ;):D

Hiram357
09-10-2009, 03:51 PM
I like cake! :)


I prefer pie . . . but wouldn't pass up on eating cake. ;):D

I like beer, and cake. But I like cake from the dutch oven with beer even more...

*This post brought to you with the courtesy of Hiram's Thread De-railing Services* :D

brdad
09-10-2009, 03:56 PM
*This post brought to you with the courtesy of Hiram's Thread De-railing Services* :D

You're on topic. In this thread, it never hurts to have some real world examples of irresponsibility. :p

Hiram357
09-10-2009, 03:59 PM
You're on topic. In this thread, it never hurts to have some real world examples of irresponsibility. :p

heh, it's like my dad always told me as I was growin up, "do as I say not as I do" :D:D:D

EvilHomer
09-10-2009, 06:27 PM
Mmmmmmmmmmmmmm.............BEEEEER!

Team2hunt
09-10-2009, 06:41 PM
Mmmmmmm........a big creemee in a waffle cone. :p

Gob-ler
09-10-2009, 09:34 PM
Pizza with a big diet pepsi!

brdad
09-10-2009, 09:45 PM
I'm not sure what we're talking about but I'll have a Diet Moxie and a bag of Humpty Dumpty BBQ chips.

Ekidokai
09-11-2009, 12:13 AM
Ketchup chips

Hiram357
09-11-2009, 06:49 AM
I'm not sure what we're talking about but I'll have a Diet Moxie and a bag of Humpty Dumpty BBQ chips.

mmm, real moxie and sea salt and vinegar chips!!! :D:D:D

Hiram357
09-11-2009, 06:50 AM
Ketchup chips

blech... I'd rather put ketchup on regular potato chips. sometimes i'll mush em up and eat em with a spoon. :D

Ekidokai
09-11-2009, 06:58 AM
That is terrible.

firefighterjake
09-11-2009, 07:42 AM
mmm, real moxie and sea salt and vinegar chips!!! :D:D:D

+1 . . . If you're going to drink Moxie you have to drink the real stuff, not the diet stuff (and this is from a guy who prefers diet soda over regular soda) . . . and of course salt and vinegar chips . . . is there any other?

I swear Hiram if I didn't know you weren't from Maine. . . . or the fact that I'm pretty sure you're not my long lost brother.;):D

firefighterjake
09-11-2009, 07:43 AM
blech... I'd rather put ketchup on regular potato chips. sometimes i'll mush em up and eat em with a spoon. :D

It's OK Hiram . . . I do the same thing sometimes. Rippled chips with some ketchup as a chip dip . . . must be a "Maine" thing huh?

masterson of the universe
09-11-2009, 12:23 PM
Ketchup and plain potato chips is one of my favorite snacks as well. I consider it to be like french fries without all the boiling oil and cooking time. Plain Lays are the best but Ruffles Rippled are ok as well as sometimes I like a little more salt, always Heinz.

WhereRWe?
09-11-2009, 01:35 PM
Ketchup and plain potato chips is one of my favorite snacks as well. I consider it to be like french fries without all the boiling oil and cooking time.

Sheesh!

I'll take the nutritional value (and flavor) of french fries (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/foods-from-mcdonalds/6235/2) over potato chips (http://www.nutritiondata.com/facts/snacks/5662/2) anytime! LOL!

EvilHomer
09-13-2009, 05:38 PM
What makes a terrible cacher/ or cache hider? Hmmmmmm? How about a relatively new cacher putting out caches when they do not understand the nuances of how certain types of caches should be....like a TB/COIN hotel. Maybe they should learn a little bit more about this before they throw a public hissy fit. Just my opinion. :)

WhereRWe?
09-13-2009, 06:10 PM
What makes a terrible cacher/ or cache hider? Hmmmmmm? How about a relatively new cacher putting out caches when they do not understand the nuances of how certain types of caches should be....like a TB/COIN hotel. Maybe they should learn a little bit more about this before they throw a public hissy fit. Just my opinion. :)

Sheesh! Just one word: prescient. LOL!

Haffy
09-13-2009, 07:14 PM
What makes a terrible cacher/ or cache hider? Hmmmmmm? How about a relatively new cacher putting out caches when they do not understand the nuances of how certain types of caches should be....like a TB/COIN hotel. Maybe they should learn a little bit more about this before they throw a public hissy fit. Just my opinion. :)

I think I know the instance you are talking about and all I can say is take it a little easy on this person. You learn from your mistakes and it seems he has learned from his. We are certainly not all perfect.

masterson of the universe
09-13-2009, 08:24 PM
Not sure of the details but I do know that there is a personal appology on a certain newer TB hotel. Doesn't appear that the C.O. is a member of this site but I did happen to notice that when it was published there was quite the collection of TB's. Must have been collecting for a while before placing? Wish some of mine would have surfaced in there....

EvilHomer
09-13-2009, 10:13 PM
That is the civil response that I now see on the cache page that I would expect and respect. Not what I was given to begin with. I am very glad that this little business is done with.

Ekidokai
09-14-2009, 11:58 AM
I Know the cache and the owner and the incidents. I am surprised that I held back on commenting at the moment f the incident. As it turns out maybe things are getting better. We can only hope.

laxreff
11-28-2009, 04:07 PM
I agree with hollera about hints, hides, etc. While I don't really care for micros, though I have hidden one myself due to the area chosen, I find it annoying that a hider will select a micro and then give it a 3+ rating. I have under 100 hides and have recently gotten a good friend interested in caching. He is hooked and still gets discouraged when it's a micro we're after and it has to be hidden like in Fort Knox. It takes him alot to finally give in. I too have seen areas trampled in the mad search for a cache and quite often use trampled trails as an unwritten hint to the cache location. We have started to plan our cache outings more around traditional caches in scenic areas we have never seen and only plan to seek micros when they are in the same areas or on our travel route. I can't wait until all of the guardrails in southern Maine have been taken...