Let me preface this with, "I am not an expert on the subject". In another post my brother-in-law, RCWhit, commented that he was sitting in front of a coffee shop (not the one in Vassalboro) "stealing" their WIFI. I stated in that thread that to the best of my knowledge it wasn't stealing if they didn't have it secured. Someone else stated that it is, but from the ISP not the WAP owner. Maybe what I had heard was in relation to businesses who offer WIFI hotspots. Anyone have any clarification on that? If I go to Panera Bread in Augusta and sit in my truck connected to their WIFI is there any reason they can say I'm stealing. I can understand if I find someone's unsecure WAP and use their connection to the internet since it wasn't intentionally set up for use by others but I'm really wondering now about the hotspots they set up for that use.

Maybe what I had heard was in relation to businesses who offer WIFI hotspots. Anyone have any clarification on that? If I go to Panera Bread in Augusta and sit in my truck connected to their WIFI is there any reason they can say I'm stealing. I can understand if I find someone's unsecure WAP and use their connection to the internet since it wasn't intentionally set up for use by others but I'm really wondering now about the hotspots they set up for that use.

I've been following the subject of WiFi for years, and in fact have tried to establish a listing of WiFi hotspots (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1189&highlight=wifi) to be posted here. The project died for lack of input.

But you'll find little in the way of guidance on the subject, just opinions like you'll get from me. But IMHO, you've got a line between wireless access which is purchased as a commodity from an ISP for the use of the purchaser, and public networks which are offered by a business and, we assume, for the use of their customers). But some locations actually list themselves as PUBLIC WiFi hotspots. Park outside the Solon Town office or the Coolidge Library in Solon and help yourself to their WiFi network. They were established (by me) as public hotspots and are identified as such.

So is it illegal to park outside Panera Bread and use their WiFi? Good luck finding a definitive answer! LOL!

Hmmm...interesting. In my opinion, there are two separate issues here. If the company (in this case Panera) advertise that free wifi is available, then it's not stealing. (Shouldn't matter if you are inside, outside, or sitting on the roof) If a person is out wardriving, searching for any and all available signals (company and residential) to exploit on a published list, then I have an issue with that. I manage several signals, two are wide open, one is locked down and purposely named, "Area 51." Just because a person doesn't understand how to lock it, doesn't mean that they want a yard full of cars surfing. On the other hand, they need to learn or ask how to secure it.

We had a car that used to come every night at the same time....park across the street in the same exact spot. He got a couple nights free wifi, but he was soon encouraged to move on.

.02

If a person is out wardriving, searching for any and all available signals (company and residential) to exploit on a published list, then I have an issue with that.

Just to clarify - the intent of the effort to create a WiFi hotspot listing was to identify PUBLIC WiFi hotspots: public libraries, etc. Not unsecured private wireless networks. :D:D

Unity
Unity House of Pizza
Corner of Main and School Street

Offers: Free Wi-Fi . . . and wicked good pizza (but it's not free). Oh yeah, Hiram also is making me mention that they also have Guiness on tap which makes him happy.

Hi all! got my internet running today! I was being funny (I thought!) when I said I was steeling WYFI. We were inside having supper. I think that the free wyfi is something to lure people inside to but stuff, but if it's not secured I'm sure they know there will be some people that will use there WYFI without buying anything. The customers that they do attract with the WYFI far out way the ones that sit out side and use it for free.

Oh yeah, Hiram also is making me mention that they also have Guiness on tap which makes him happy.

What other beers do they have on tap? Do they have Stella Artois (http://www.stellaartois.com/)?

I went to Whole Foods in Portland today (had to take RULost2? to the airport...)
Sheesh! What a great beer selection they have! Not large, but plenty of brands you don't see in this area. I bought a 4-pack of Hennepin (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/42/141) (Brewed by Ommegang Brewery (http://www.ommegang.com/), Cooperstown, NY. We toured their brewery a few years ago, and it's a great tour. Second only to the Moosehead Brewery (http://www.moosehead.ca/) in St John, New Brunswick.)

What other beers do they have on tap? Do they have Stella Artois (http://www.stellaartois.com/)?

I went to Whole Foods in Portland today (had to take RULost2? to the airport...)
Sheesh! What a great beer selection they have! Not large, but plenty of brands you don't see in this area. I bought a 4-pack of Hennepin (http://beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/42/141) (Brewed by Ommegang Brewery (http://www.ommegang.com/), Cooperstown, NY. We toured their brewery a few years ago, and it's a great tour. Second only to the Moosehead Brewery (http://www.moosehead.ca/) in St John, New Brunswick.)

I'm not sure Bruce . . . I only see Hiram drink Guiness and an occasional Budweiser when he's trying to be healthy ;) . . . and since they no longer sell Woodchucks (the only alcoholic drink I occasionally imbide . . . and it's rare . . . probably for a reason . . . ask Hiram or Connie about Camp Jakeawana sometime . . . I'm not sure what other beer they have on tap.

Not that my 2 cents worth amount to much, but if connected through WYFI that is not protected, you become a guest of that person. To me it's no different than if they invited you inside to sit down at their computer. Would you call that "stealing" from the internet provider if you were invited inside instead of invited to use their WYFI? :rolleyes:

Not that my 2 cents worth amount to much, but if connected through WYFI that is not protected, you become a guest of that person. To me it's no different than if they invited you inside to sit down at their computer. Would you call that "stealing" from the internet provider if you were invited inside instead of invited to use their WYFI? :rolleyes:

In the summer, I keep beer in a mini-fridge on my deck. Since I don't lock the fridge, could you walk up and help yourself, because it's no different than if I invited you in for a cold one? Because it isn't locked CERTAINLY doesn't mean that I've invited you to use my property. LOL!

This debate could go on forever, and I don't think the legality has been settled. :D:D

well at least we all know where to get a cold beer next summer hehe

If you leave beer on your porch and I help myself, you soon have to replenish your supply. If you don't password protect your WAP and I connect, surf the web, chat on IRC, upload scary photos of my brother in law out geocaching then leave when I'm done, you still have your broadband connection. I see the logic in what you say, however, it's apples and oranges. Just adding fuel to the fire here. :)

If you leave beer on your porch and I help myself, you soon have to replenish your supply. If you don't password protect your WAP and I connect, surf the web, chat on IRC, upload scary photos of my brother in law out geocaching then leave when I'm done, you still have your broadband connection. I see the logic in what you say, however, it's apples and oranges. Just adding fuel to the fire here. :)

If you sit outside my house and use my wifi, if I'm not home, no big deal, but if I'm online, it can slow down my connection with both of us using it. That does negatively affect a service that I'm paying for.
Another issue that (hopefully) doesn't happen very often, if someone does something illegal on your service (say an upstairs neighbor downloads illegal music, or worse...), the authorities will look at you first and it may be difficult to prove you didn't do anything wrong. I know people that have experienced this and it wasn't fun.

Having said all that, I've been known to hang out near the local VIP or hotel and log caches. I figure that there are lots of people inside doing the same thing and I'm not bogging down the system with my 1 or 2 page queries. Probably still wrong, but I see it as a minor thing.

The opinion I've stated in based on several years of "Wardriving", and wondering myself what the legality of it is.

Here's a good article (http://www.legalaffairs.org/issues/May-June-2005/review_koerner_mayjun05.msp) that bsically backs up my position. :D:D

But having said that, it's never stopped me so far... LOL! :eek::eek:

Would be nice to know clear-cut what the actual rules are: I stumbled across this article (http://www.netstumbler.com/2006/06/28/wifi-freeloader-arrested-in-washington/) on the "Netstumbler" website. :)

Would be nice to know clear-cut what the actual rules are: I stumbled across this article (http://www.netstumbler.com/2006/06/28/wifi-freeloader-arrested-in-washington/) on the "Netstumbler" website. :)

I used to use NetStumbler, but the wireless cards in today's laptops are so sensitive that all you have to do is keep checking for wireless networks on your computer and they'll be there. No special program needed to find them.

(Of course, like older GPS receivers, you have the "yo-yo" effect: by the time your receiver/computer has picked up the signal, you're beyond the cache/WiFi hotspot. So you have to back up! LOL!)

We vacation in Canada a lot, and have found that the personnel in local libraries - which almost always have public internet access (sometime you have to pay a nominal fee) - are VERY helpful to tourists looking to "get connected". :D:D

So, if the coffee shop in Vassalboro offers free WIFI and free peeks, where's the downside?

So, if the coffee shop in Vassalboro offers free WIFI and free peeks, where's the downside?

The downside comes when you get HOME!!! LOL

The downside comes when you get HOME!!! LOL

Oh, no, I wasn't speaking for myself. I'd never gaze upon any portion of a woman's anatomy that I wasn't supposed to look at. I was speaking for others........

I used to use NetStumbler, but the wireless cards in today's laptops are so sensitive that all you have to do is keep checking for wireless networks on your computer and they'll be there. No special program needed to find them.

(Of course, like older GPS receivers, you have the "yo-yo" effect: by the time your receiver/computer has picked up the signal, you're beyond the cache/WiFi hotspot. So you have to back up! LOL!)


Netstumbler allows you to connect GPS and record coordinates of found access points, since both GPS and WiFi discovery is delayed you will get pretty good accuracy :)

Sheesh! This is a project that has been brewing for almost 5 years. But lets get real! WiFi hotspots are everywhere these days. Every McDonalds now has free WiFi.

So the "wifi listing project" dies. Anyway, I never received more than a couple of dozen USEABLE (in the requested database format) listings, so we didn't really have that many anyway.

Five years ago, a location where you could get internet access while caching was a rarity - as was a laptop with wireless internet capability - and a WiFi listing made sense. No longer.

I invite comments. :D:D

Yep, just something else that makes caching easier than it used to be! :p

Of course, I could opt not to use it - but I won't!

Guess I'll never find any of these hotspots. We bought our first laptop about 4 months ago and had only used it a couple times. We took it up to the new "automobile" series a couple weekends ago and I left it behind the front seat on the floor. I had my wife drive for awhile and she put the seat forward. When I got in to drive I put the seat back and crack! That was a fast wasted $600. I won't be buying another.

Oh man that it a shame. I find the smaller ones more versatile, cheaper and easier to hide than the regular ones.

What is broken and where did you get it? It might be able to be fixed or replaced?

There are two small gouges in the top (back of the screen) from the power seat. You can barely make out a crack in the screen. When the computer is on, nothing shows up on the screen. My father broke his in a similar way and was told by a computer store that it can't be fixed, at least for less than a new one, so I just assume it is a lost cause.

Guess I'll never find any of these hotspots. We bought our first laptop about 4 months ago and had only used it a couple times. We took it up to the new "automobile" series a couple weekends ago and I left it behind the front seat on the floor. I had my wife drive for awhile and she put the seat forward. When I got in to drive I put the seat back and crack! That was a fast wasted $600. I won't be buying another.

Sheesh! You can get a good netbook for under $300. They're much smaller, easy to hold on your lap, and they'll slide right under the seat if you need to push the seat back. :D:D