View Full Version : SeriousTool hits 200. Hides, that is.



NativeMainer
12-17-2009, 11:10 PM
Well, he's gone and done it. 200 hides. A bunch of alerts went off this morning, pushing Chadd over the 200 hide mark. I do believe that's the most in the state, at the present moment.

lexmano
12-18-2009, 02:13 PM
Team Horwich as of 12/19/09 has 235, Serious Tool is at 228.:)

Stay Tuned, a changing of the guard is imminent.:rolleyes:

Northwoods Explorer has 199, Ekidokai has 186

Great time to be a cacher in Maine!:D

vicbiker
12-18-2009, 11:22 PM
I knew it...will need to make another trip to the West Kennebunk area

NativeMainer
12-18-2009, 11:23 PM
When did that happen? I knew TeamHorwich was up there, but I didn't think they had cracked 200 yet. Oh, well. :o

brdad
12-19-2009, 08:12 AM
TearHorwich hid their 200th a little over a year ago, including some which have been archived and some nice older caches which they adopted. While I am not a proponent of large numbers of hides, it seems they keep up with all the maintenance and have placed many memorable caches as well. Kudos to them for that.

NativeMainer
12-19-2009, 09:45 AM
Well, as of this morning, Chadd has had some more caches published, pushing his number of hides up to 239. And as I wrote this, I checked on TeamHorwich, and his count's up to 246.

dubord207
12-19-2009, 09:50 AM
Brdad is absolutely right about the effort Jim Horowitz puts in with cache maintenance. On a couple I found ( or couldn't find) that had issues, he immediately archived and had them fixed within a day. Ed and Dave, lexmano and DSKG are the same way. Lots of caches means a lot of responsibility! Congrats and thanks to Chad for all the new caches and good luck and thanks for keeping them all ready to find.:)

CARoperPhotography
12-19-2009, 11:35 PM
Once the Star Wars Tribute is finished at about 100-120 caches total, I will be stepping back from placing caches, and concentrating on maintaining all of mine, and making some of my early hides more permanent and better! I have been influenced by several Maine cachers in style of hides, from Ekidokai's SMR run, to the Historical hides of Horwich, to the geographically influenced park and grabs of Lex, to the sneaky and devious hides of HD and DSKG! A big thank you is needed for all of these guys for the effort they have put into this sport, and the inspiration each of them has given to me!

firefighterjake
12-21-2009, 09:22 AM
. . . and then you get folks with over 1,000 finds and not a single hide to their name. I still can't figure that one out . . . with all of the time to find caches and they can't find one place to even hide a micro? Sorry, it's Monday and I'm feeling cranky again. ;)

brdad
12-21-2009, 12:07 PM
. . . and then you get folks with over 1,000 finds and not a single hide to their name. I still can't figure that one out . . . with all of the time to find caches and they can't find one place to even hide a micro? Sorry, it's Monday and I'm feeling cranky again. ;)

I'll side with a person who hesitates to hide a cache long before I will one who haphazardly places one or 50 or just puts one out to give back to the community. A perfect example is Lee - She was concerned with hiding a quality cache at proper location and a cache that she felt she could maintain. She also was concerned people may not have a fun time finding it. She was not going to settle for a micro, she wanted to do something that was more unique to the area.

Not to mention, in today's cache density, 1000 finds could be a month or less. I suppose you could use the time a person has been caching as a criteria, but there are many cachers who only go caching a few days year or while on vacation.

I don't believe every cacher has to place caches to "give back" to the community. We have more than enough power hiders to make up for it. There are also some people who should just not place caches either because they have time or geographical restraints, and some who don't or won't pay attention to safe and quality hiding practices (primarily by reading gc.coms Cache Listing Requirements and Guidelines as well as their TOU) which make a positive impact on the activity. And then there are those who won't maintain their caches.

Haffy
12-21-2009, 03:40 PM
[QUOTE=brdad;60816]
I don't believe every cacher has to place caches to "give back" to the community. We have more than enough power hiders to make up for it. QUOTE]

I tend to think the same way myself. Before I left to move down here to SC I had about 800 or so finds and only had about 6 or so hides but I think they were quality hides and that's the way I wanted them to be. I don't have any hides down here yet and to be quite honest it seems all the "quality places" have already been taken in my area. I'm not one to hide a micro and there are plenty of those around to appease those who like that type of hide anyway. If I do find that 'special place' I'll make sure it is as special to me and the cache finder as well. JMHO

firefighterjake
12-22-2009, 09:09 AM
I still maintain that anyone who finds over 1,000 hides should be able to find at least one quality place to hide a cache . . .

CARoperPhotography
12-22-2009, 11:50 PM
Right now, I am preparing containers and logs all ready to go for when I need them for maintaining caches. I am trying to stock up on ready to go replacement caches. As soon as I get a few DNFs, I am all over the cache. I even have performed repair and replacement on other's caches.

cano
12-24-2009, 11:04 AM
Well, he's gone and done it. 200 hides. A bunch of alerts went off this morning, pushing Chadd over the 200 hide mark. I do believe that's the most in the state, at the present moment.

From http://mgs.cano.sk/

SeriousTool (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=2288857)239TeamHorwich (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=66924)209Ekidokai (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=1790176)178Mapachi (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=1383108)158Northwoods Explorer (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=381878)120lexmano (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=527100)109law1646 (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=1440428)100Katadin Goddess (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=23677)94MARTES (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=255742)80LaughingTerry (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=310400)73EMSDanel (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=864112)70kayaking loon (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=679392)68iampaw (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=707225)67shuman road searchers (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=1438968)55hoamdezinahs (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?id=362472)52

lexmano
12-24-2009, 12:22 PM
We need to measure the body of work over time, so counting archived caches and events, TH is at 248 and the Serious Tool is at 252. A changing of the guard has occurred.:p

TeamHorwich
12-24-2009, 01:37 PM
congrats to the SeriousFool...I mean Tool ; )

CARoperPhotography
12-24-2009, 03:17 PM
Thanks everyone! Now.... to begin retrofitting my earliest hides and maintaining them all! I have a feeling Horwich will be back at it again and the counts will go back and forth between us for the coming months.

Was happy to see that TH and DSKG had some FTFs this morning (3 of them involving S-Ray as well!)....

Mapachi
12-25-2009, 05:44 PM
I'm just starting! Look out behind you, I still have my power run to put out!

shuman road searchers
12-25-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm just starting! Look out behind you, I still have my power run to put out!

:D Keep it close by Pat!:D

Ekidokai
12-27-2009, 12:16 AM
I think a power run would be fun to do.

hollora
12-27-2009, 08:46 AM
Ah, and in conjunction with the WWWWWWWWW event perhaps? Should someone rent a bus? :D Anyone know where to find a 4 x 4 bus? :D LOL ;)

WhereRWe?
12-27-2009, 01:45 PM
Ah, and in conjunction with the WWWWWWWWW event perhaps? Should someone rent a bus? :D Anyone know where to find a 4 x 4 bus? :D LOL ;)

WWWWWW 6 will be Saturday, Feb 20th. Just got email back from Gerry at "Big G's", so will be posting the event in the next couple of days.

:D:D

CARoperPhotography
12-27-2009, 06:32 PM
I know the perfect place to do a power run..... besides SMR which is THE PERFECT power run :-)

brdad
12-28-2009, 10:39 AM
If we're all doing a power run, why waste time at the event? We can order our sandwiches, sign the event logbook while we wait for our order and head out and eat on the way! :rolleyes:

Hopefully Lee and I can make the WWWWW event this year. Even if that's the only log we sign all day.

TRF
12-28-2009, 12:56 PM
I know the perfect place to do a power run..... besides SMR which is THE PERFECT power run :-)

Excellent!! Are you planning the Kennebec County Centum? :D The Somerset County Centum? the Penobscot County Centum? :D I'll be sure to set aside days to do them!! I got the York County Centum (Not the actual cache but all the Star Wars themed caches plus enough others for a total of 102 caches in York County) out of the way now. Thanks you for your effort and the good time we (SRS and myself) had. Lots of laughs while we were "offroading" in the deceptively "offroadish" Nissan Sentra.

"If not for Geocaching I would not have known of these areas!" Thanks Chad/CARoperPhotography/SeriousTool for placing these caches. Looking forward to seeing more of the State of Maine.

Cache On!!

shuman road searchers
12-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Excellent!! Are you planning the Kennebec County Centum? :D The Somerset County Centum? the Penobscot County Centum? :D I'll be sure to set aside days to do them!! I got the York County Centum (Not the actual cache but all the Star Wars themed caches plus enough others for a total of 102 caches in York County) out of the way now. Thanks you for your effort and the good time we (SRS and myself) had. Lots of laughs while we were "offroading" in the deceptively "offroadish" Nissan Sentra.

"If not for Geocaching I would not have known of these areas!" Thanks Chad/CARoperPhotography/SeriousTool for placing these caches. Looking forward to seeing more of the State of Maine.

Cache On!!

http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon14.gif What a great idea! A centum run in each of the 16 counties! Al we would need then is a 16 county centum cache that you can only sign once you have done the centum in each of the 16 counties in Maine. Sounds like Patrick,Chad and Mike need to get busy!http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon7.gif

Ekidokai
12-28-2009, 04:12 PM
I'm out. I give up. Brdad is right.

brdad
12-28-2009, 04:42 PM
Why stop at counties? Especially the larger ones. It seems to me no one should have to drive more than 20 minutes to find 100 caches in a day. If we could get 52 hiders together, they could each hide a centum series on a different week of the year, and after it was out for a year, they would archive and re-submit the series, so people could find them over and over every year! Every week there would be a new centum to do!

I was about to suggest 365 centum series for the centum a day challenge, but that would just be silly, wouldn't it?

shuman road searchers
12-28-2009, 05:15 PM
Why stop at counties? Especially the larger ones. It seems to me no one should have to drive more than 20 minutes to find 100 caches in a day. If we could get 52 hiders together, they could each hide a centum series on a different week of the year, and after it was out for a year, they would archive and re-submit the series, so people could find them over and over every year! Every week there would be a new centum to do!

I was about to suggest 365 centum series for the centum a day challenge, but that would just be silly, wouldn't it?

BRDAD, it is nice to see you come over to the dark side!

dubord207
12-28-2009, 05:20 PM
Actually Dave's suggestion about archiving a whole pile of caches after a year so and placing new ones is being done in other places. Di and I were in the Jonathan Dickinson State Park in Jupiter Florida in mid August this year. This park is a cacher's paradise with well over 400 caches placed, none like SMR, just a huge variety in every type of terrain imaginable.

To avoid geo-trails and keep the interest high, they were planning on archiving almost all of these caches on September 22 will new placements and caches to be placed during October. So the idea isn't all that far fetched and does make sense in an area that is largely urban.;)

TRF
12-28-2009, 10:05 PM
Why stop at counties? Especially the larger ones. It seems to me no one should have to drive more than 20 minutes to find 100 caches in a day. If we could get 52 hiders together, they could each hide a centum series on a different week of the year, and after it was out for a year, they would archive and re-submit the series, so people could find them over and over every year! Every week there would be a new centum to do!

I was about to suggest 365 centum series for the centum a day challenge, but that would just be silly, wouldn't it?

Why would it be silly? If someone with the time and desire wanted to hide them and another find them, so what? There effort should have no bearing on your participation in geocaching.

I see sailboats and motorboat and jet skis all on the same body of water. Some are fishing some are water skiing and some are just zooming about enjoying themselves. Understanding that all folks involved are following the prescribed guidelines. The only people complaining and whining are the folks who THINK they own the lake. Always coming up with some lame reason the boaters shouldn't be doing it but none of them genuinely valid.

Regarding geocaching, I think it silly to discourage new ideas and new twist on a fun sport that can encompass everyones ideas of what caching should be. I think it silly to put prerequisites on people who want to place a hide. I think it silly to condemn a certain type of cache when the person doing the condemning is under no obligation to find that type of hide. I think it is silly to condescend to folks who find 100 caches in a day simply because you don't like the idea of it. I think it is silly to patronize a "newbie" because they place a hide that was approved by a "Publisher" but you may not like it.

brdad
12-28-2009, 10:40 PM
Forgive me, I was making a joke. Clearly it is not silly, I am predicting it's happening.

And I have no problem with who legally rides what boat in what lake, but if there are 1000 powerboats in that lake, it will probably have an effect of my enjoyment of kayaking in the same lake.

JustKev
12-29-2009, 04:23 AM
1000 powerboats and 1 kayak. Is that a new twist on dodge ball?

CARoperPhotography
12-30-2009, 09:08 PM
Coming up..... an archiving of The Star Wars Tribute series, with a James Bond Tribute series to replace it! I'll just leave the caches in place and get them all published again :-)

Ha! Seriously though.... my series is complete and I am stepping back from placements and concentrating on maintaining everything and going back to my early hides from the summer when I first started and changing them, and making them more permanent. That, and finding caches. I wanted to end 2009, my first year of caching (Started at the end of April 2009) and the end of the decade, with a good solid even number of finds. So I hit TeamHorwich's(GeoAcer hides originally) Back Cove Bonanza today after meeting up with TH himself, and grabbed 14 more to get myself past 600.

I am enjoying everyone's logs from the Star Wars series, and am very surprised at how much attention it gets from cachers!

NativeMainer
12-31-2009, 01:02 AM
600 in less than a year? And Petr hit 800 in less than a year. It took me five years to hit 100! But then again, becoming a father of twins puts a damper on any free time. Now that they're older, they can help Daddy find some caches.

Congrats, you two.

Mainiac1957
12-31-2009, 07:36 AM
After doing 2 centums this year. First in Tennessee at Geowoodstock 7 and later on the Stud Mill Rd I ended up with 1221 caches for 2009. Up from 900 that I did in 2008. I have a feeling that 2010 will be a bit quieter in terms of numbers. I really need to get back to the hike and paddle caches that I so enjoy. Only time will tell I suppose.

lexmano
12-31-2009, 09:28 AM
I enjoy this site. I noticed that Teamsnook, who swept through Maine in September has just claimed the #2 spot.

http://www.zinnware.com/HighAdv/Geocaching/most_caches_found.php?OrderBy=finds&Ordering=DESC&Limit=3000

As he asks, I have written to Zinn twice to add Serious Tool and Ekidokai to the list as both have more than 100 hides. I had many months ago written to him regarding myself and Team Horwich and we were added promptly. It is holiday season, so I suspect they will appear shortly.

When they do, Serious Tool will be close to the top 100 hiders in the game. will he be able to resist hiding a few more to get there?:D

dubord207
12-31-2009, 01:42 PM
Over the past 30 days I did 6 caches, an all time low. My office was crazy. Usually Celeste and Barbara, my two secretaries who have worked with me for over 33 years, can get most everything done without me, but our computers crashed, the back ups failed so December was "hell month" and I didn't cache at all.

But in my first year of caching, 10/31/2007 to 10/30/2008 I logged 1500, all that and reamining gainfully employed. Like Brad, I've calmed down a bit since the first year's binge!:)

Gob-ler
12-31-2009, 01:55 PM
Hum, 1726 in 2009, 1687 in 2008, I guess I am slowing down. I did get FTF number 805 the other day.

Actually you have to keep it all in perspective. Just about anyone can get big numbers quickly anymore. It's what you do in the long run that counts, and how you do it. Make no mistake, it is a numbers game or sorts, but it is more than the numbers.

Cache on!

dubord207
12-31-2009, 03:45 PM
Great to hear from Dick, as always. PA must know who you are by now. Hope all is well with you and Kathy and Happy New Year to you, you caching fiend and legend!:D:D




Hum, 1726 in 2009, 1687 in 2008, I guess I am slowing down. I did get FTF number 805 the other day.

Actually you have to keep it all in perspective. Just about anyone can get big numbers quickly anymore. It's what you do in the long run that counts, and how you do it. Make no mistake, it is a numbers game or sorts, but it is more than the numbers.

Cache on!

Mainiac1957
12-31-2009, 04:36 PM
Like Brad, I've calmed down a bit since the first year's binge!:)

Dan... My first year of caching I only found 35:eek: Of course that was 2003

pjpreb
12-31-2009, 06:50 PM
After doing 2 centums this year. First in Tennessee at Geowoodstock 7 and later on the Stud Mill Rd I ended up with 1221 caches for 2009. Up from 900 that I did in 2008. I have a feeling that 2010 will be a bit quieter in terms of numbers. I really need to get back to the hike and paddle caches that I so enjoy. Only time will tell I suppose.

Hey I know of a pretty cool paddle series in the Trenton area that you might enjoy.....;)

Mainiac1957
12-31-2009, 08:37 PM
That one will be on my list if I can ever get a rack for my Jeep.

hollora
12-31-2009, 10:38 PM
That one will be on my list if I can ever get a rack for my Jeep.

Or we could take the 4 Runner - :D

pjpreb
01-01-2010, 05:44 PM
Or we could take the 4 Runner - :D

If you haven't done it yet, "Get Marooned" is fun too. Harbor seals followed us out and back to Alley Island :)

CARoperPhotography
01-01-2010, 11:04 PM
My New Years Resolution to some "concerned" muggle friends and family, to not place any new caches (but to maintain and repair existing hides) is about to be broken. Not all at once with a series or a continuation of Star Wars, but with some good hides and ideas that have come to me, and I just can't resist, especially since I am so close to 300 hides!

So, it is 10:05 PM on Jan. 1st, 2010 and I am declaring that my resolution is officially renounced!

CARoperPhotography
01-04-2010, 12:11 AM
Okay..... I was perusing the Maine Caching Stats section of this site this evening, and was shocked that I am only listed as having 87 hides total. TeamHorwich was listed as having 82 hides total. These stats were updated on 12/29/09.

After looking at the stats more closely and reading the page in it's entirety, I realized that micro caches are excluded from the stats.

I am rather curious as to why this is. Can anyone answer this?

CARoperPhotography
01-10-2010, 09:31 AM
I just want to share something with all of your naysayers in regards to series of easily found highly concentrated micros like Stud Mill Rd. and The Star Wars Tribute here in Maine. I received this log this morning for one of the caches. You should read it and consider that this kind of cache density means far more than just numbers.... :

Location: Maine, United States
ponil found Star Wars Tribute: Han Solo (Traditional Cache) at 1/10/2010

Log Date: 1/10/2010
Where should I begin? I turned 50 this past week and wanted no part of any kind of party, well..... I was surprised when I expected a quiet evening at home, having a few drinks, and having some friends over. Well, they showed up and handed me a piece of paper stating that I had 10 minutes to get ready to go caching! They decided that we would cache all night and cache all night we did! We left the house a few minutes after 8pm, and picked up 2 other cachers! The crew included myself, Preferida, Team Salford, KBallsy and 76-CJ7 (who also turns 50 this week and I attended his party...). The goal was to do 50 caches over night, but of course I had to wear an astronaut costume complete with helmet and visor, as they had chosen all the Star Wars caches up in Maine! We arrived at our exit and we decided to get some coffee, and then start caching! It was a beautiful and very cold night, Team salford drove and announced the temperature everytime it dropped another degree with a low of 1 degree, we were in and out of the car all night long! I wore the astronaut costume complete with helmet and visor for the first 50 caches, the pictures I am sure will be posted. We finished early in the morning and went to a local 24 hour Diner near home for break feast. I arrived home at 7:20AM, with over 130(plus) caches done! I had a great time with great friends and a memory that will last for another 50 years. Thank you my friends for this fun surprise and thank you cache placers for making this possible! This cache was one we found along the way! TFTC, ponil

Visit this log entry at the below address:
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.a...e-bb0a7da09131 (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/log.aspx?LUID=5d8744da-7617-46bb-9c2e-bb0a7da09131)

NativeMainer
01-10-2010, 06:12 PM
You created some memories for these folks that they'll never forget. I can't think of a higher compliment than that.

Ponil's log is making me think about how I want to celebrate my 50th. I've got about 2 1/2 years to think about that one, though. :D

hollora
01-10-2010, 06:20 PM
For my 60th & my best friends - we took our husbands to Alaska on a cruise. What did we do in each port? Geocache of course!

WhereRWe?
01-10-2010, 06:25 PM
I checked a couple of log entries, and note that apparently all members of the group resorted to the 'cut-and-paste" method of making online log entries. (That's another thread.) One also has to wonder if all members of the group signed the paper log or, as I have seen, one member of the group signs the log for all. (Sure makes it easier to get 130 caches in one trip!)

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

dubord207
01-10-2010, 06:58 PM
There's a whole lot of precedent for groups of cachers doing these so called "power runs" or Centum challenges to sign in under a group name. It saves time, doesn't waste space on the logs and certainly seems to be in the spirit of the game, at least to me, the non-purist, I guess.

But there will be those that say, "no log, no find." Damn, it's tough to figure out if I'm doing it right, but by golly, I'm having a ball actually getting outside and doing an occassional cache or two!:D

rcwhit
01-10-2010, 07:12 PM
But there will be those that say, "no log, no find." Damn,

I don't think that anyone checkes the logs to see if everyone that loged a find was REALLY there do they. I'm sure there are some that just log a find to up their totals with out ever going out to find the cache. If that's how they want to play, that's up to them. To me they are missing the whole idea of Geocaching, it's not the numbers, it's the exersice getting there and the fun of trying to find it when you do get there. At least that's why we do it! :p

WhereRWe?
01-10-2010, 08:04 PM
There's a whole lot of precedent for groups of cachers doing these so called "power runs" or Centum challenges to sign in under a group name. It saves time, doesn't waste space on the logs and certainly seems to be in the spirit of the game, at least to me, the non-purist, I guess.


Sheesh. Precedent. Because everyone else is doing it, it makes it OK. How long will it be before it's OK to log a cache that you've just driven by? After all, it saves time, doesn't waste space on the logs, and certainly saves gas...

Bulls**t.

I'm glad I'm a "senior citizen" - not much longer to go...

And sheesh - don't spam the thread with "we'll be glad when you go"...

dubord207
01-10-2010, 08:22 PM
Sheesh, I'm not going to drive by caches and call it a log. I go out and find them. I have a whole more lot caches then posts here and with the exception of a 15 hour centum day in New Hampshire where 5 of us chose a team name, I've signed each and every log of every cache I've found. I sense that most cachers do as well, but I do appreciate your sense of humor. And that's not bulls***!

I have an AARP card too, but I'm still receptive to new ideas, new ways to do things and new adventures to experience. I still take a lot from the seniors and how they've done it (precedent) but I like the continous injection of new blood that Bruce kindly welcomes to the game every day. Hope they don't come away with the impression that they will be criticized if they play the game in a new and unique manner.

The best cure for cabin fever and an inclination to post negatively is to go out and find a few caches.:)

brdad
01-10-2010, 09:16 PM
I am a proponent of the opinion that a find is between the cacher and the cache owner. But I also think all or nearly all of us have opinions of what is in the spirit of the game. I would never log as a team, but Lee often does sign for me, though I am always there and have touched the cache at minimal. Sometimes I do the signing for both of us, but my writing is barely legible.

I do believe as humans we often continually slack off in life, and I can see where logging caches without opening them and possibly not even stopping for them becoming more commonplace in the future. And this will happen even quicker if we don't support some sort of 'typical' caching techniques. And no, I don't know what typical is, I only have my personal idea of what I think it is.

CARoperPhotography
01-10-2010, 10:03 PM
Wow.... a lot of naysayers here! I'd hate to have to sign a log of a cache put out by Brdad or WhereRWe.... they may bring in the FBI to do handwriting sample comparison to prove if it was really me who signed the log!

CARoperPhotography
01-10-2010, 10:05 PM
By the way, they have some photos on logs that prove they were there. And if you REALLY want me to, I'll go out and do a random check of physical cache logs to see if they all signed the log.

I really don't want to, but if we are all going to criticize them for ho they chose to have fun caching, I need to check the logs to support them.

NativeMainer
01-10-2010, 11:57 PM
I want to see the picture of the guy in the astronaut outfit finding a cache. I'm also a little surprised that Kennebunk PD didn't stop them. Maybe they deftly avoided them?

brdad
01-11-2010, 08:28 AM
Wow.... a lot of naysayers here! I'd hate to have to sign a log of a cache put out by Brdad or WhereRWe.... they may bring in the FBI to do handwriting sample comparison to prove if it was really me who signed the log!

As I said, it's your cache, you are in charge of validating the logs. It's even in the gc.com guidelines (http://www.geocaching.com/about/guidelines.aspx#maint), it is not some standard created by myself, Bruce, or any other so-called naysayers:


The responsibility of your listing includes quality control of posts to the cache page. Delete any logs that appear to be bogus, counterfeit, off topic, or not within the stated requirements.

Now, as rcwhit suggested not many cachers validate each and every find. I don't either. If someone logged one of my caches as a group, I probably would not delete the log, at least not before doing a little research and felt that all the people logging were really present. Some "teams" split up and each cacher logs for the entire team with none of them actually visiting all the caches. This is poor form IMO. If someone just posted "I was at 0 feet and there was no cache so I am logging a find anyway", then I would delete that log after sending an email to the logger. If someone brought my cache to an event for everyone to log (which has been done), I would most likely delete those too.

Your hide is yours to determine what is and is not a find. If it's ok with you, let people just drive by and claim it as a find. However, I am still free to express that allowing that is, in my opinion, not a great way to portray geocaching.

WhereRWe?
01-11-2010, 03:56 PM
Wow.... a lot of naysayers here! I'd hate to have to sign a log of a cache put out by Brdad or WhereRWe.... they may bring in the FBI to do handwriting sample comparison to prove if it was really me who signed the log!

I have been known to check actual log entries...

The integrity of some cachers has been discussed here in the past.

:(:(

dubord207
01-11-2010, 04:41 PM
Some "teams" split up and each cacher logs for the entire team with none of them actually visiting all the caches. This is poor form IMO. If someone just posted "I was at 0 feet and there was no cache so I am logging a find anyway", then I would delete that log after sending an email to the logger. If someone brought my cache to an event for everyone to log (which has been done), I would most likely delete those too.

I agree 100% with all of the above. If I find people doing that to my caches, I WILL delete the log. It happened once, I emailed the cacher and suggested he delete his find. He didn't. I DID! The pissed off factor was rather high when I finally heard from him. And then, thankfully, he just stopped caching.

I'm not hearing about a lot of "cheating" or the type of bad caching described in this thread. I think that the newbies and the "lurkers" reading these discussions should be able to come away from here with a good idea about what is and what is not ethical caching. Our discussion about the type of caches and cache series is a philosophical issue and try as we may, we're not going to presuade or dissuade folks from their strongly held opinions on that issue. Like brdad says, as long as the discussion is civil, and it is most of the time, then it doesn't hurt the game or this site.

But bogus logging when you haven't found the cache, that's just wrong and we owe it to each other discourage what I call "cheating." Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't the problem is widespread.

pm28570
01-11-2010, 06:07 PM
Would certainly agree with you. I have my own opinions, happy to share when someone is interested in hearing them, but overall, I feel no need to beat this dead horse. That said, no matter your style or preferences, in the end one should be a responsible cacher and cache owner. Now....should we continue the discussion of what constitutes "responsible"? :rolleyes::D





Some "teams" split up and each cacher logs for the entire team with none of them actually visiting all the caches. This is poor form IMO. If someone just posted "I was at 0 feet and there was no cache so I am logging a find anyway", then I would delete that log after sending an email to the logger. If someone brought my cache to an event for everyone to log (which has been done), I would most likely delete those too.

I agree 100% with all of the above. If I find people doing that to my caches, I WILL delete the log. It happened once, I emailed the cacher and suggested he delete his find. He didn't. I DID! The pissed off factor was rather high when I finally heard from him. And then, thankfully, he just stopped caching.

I'm not hearing about a lot of "cheating" or the type of bad caching described in this thread. I think that the newbies and the "lurkers" reading these discussions should be able to come away from here with a good idea about what is and what is not ethical caching. Our discussion about the type of caches and cache series is a philosophical issue and try as we may, we're not going to presuade or dissuade folks from their strongly held opinions on that issue. Like brdad says, as long as the discussion is civil, and it is most of the time, then it doesn't hurt the game or this site.

But bogus logging when you haven't found the cache, that's just wrong and we owe it to each other discourage what I call "cheating." Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't the problem is widespread.

brdad
01-11-2010, 07:30 PM
But bogus logging when you haven't found the cache, that's just wrong and we owe it to each other discourage what I call "cheating." Maybe I'm being naive, but I don't the problem is widespread.

I don't think it is locally, either, but I think the sport would slowly move toward that level if some effort was not taken to counter it. Again, I am not for making new rules, I am for promoting practices that keep the game respected by cachers and non-cachers.

PS: If either of the past two posters would like their quoted text fixed, give me the ok and I'll fix it.

WhereRWe?
01-11-2010, 07:35 PM
PS: If either of the past two posters would like their quoted text fixed, give me the ok and I'll fix it.

Sheesh! Time for another tutorial! LOL!

brdad
01-11-2010, 07:41 PM
Sheesh! Time for another tutorial! LOL!

The tutorial is simple. When you only want to quote a portion of someone's post, make sure you don't cut out the [/QUOTE] at the end! :D

Pm28570's only mistake was quoting a poorly quoted post! ;)

dubord207
01-11-2010, 10:31 PM
Woops! Sorry about screwing up the quote box. Feel free to fix it. Hey, Dave, can you direct me to the tutorial you did on getting the site name on caches we publish? I added it to all my caches a while back and want to add it to the new caches I recently put out. Thanks!:)

masterson of the universe
01-11-2010, 10:34 PM
I can understand signing with a team name in certain situations where time and prizes may be at stake...lol. When doing GeoRallye III, we signed the caches we found as our team name, Team #10, but logged each cache individually on the site with our own names. When doing as many as the SMR series though, each log was signed individually. When going up to Eagle Eye Stash, we had a decent size group but everyone signed the log individually. The Rallye type events, I can understand using a team name but if you have a large group of friends doing the SMR, whats the big deal with taking the time to write your own name? You're there for the experience, so experience what its like to sign your name 150 times...If you were by yourself you'd take the time to sign, why wouldn't you want to leave your mark just the same with friends?

CARoperPhotography
01-11-2010, 11:05 PM
If bogus logging of caches was widespread, I'd have 900,000 finds already. I don't think it is as widespread and as big of a problem as we think.

However I do think that the logging of caches as teams, especially two person teams is. When two people share a Geocaching user name and only one of those two finds a cache, but both get credit for finding them... does this allow the both members of the team to claim that they have made the find? It doesnt and SO.... I think that everyone should have their own count of finds they actually made. This should make any bragging about numbers at event caches much more reasonable for teams of cachers.

Am I being sarcastic? Yes. Am I going to go check logs? No. Do I think people have been bogusly logging my caches? No. And if they are, they are only cheating themselves.

CARoperPhotography
01-11-2010, 11:07 PM
Oh, and Dubord, I know how sneaky you are and as such don't believe you really found ANY of the Star Wars series this past weekend and am going to delete your logs :-)

cano
01-12-2010, 12:27 AM
What about kids caching with parents?

brdad
01-12-2010, 03:47 AM
Woops! Sorry about screwing up the quote box. Feel free to fix it. Hey, Dave, can you direct me to the tutorial you did on getting the site name on caches we publish? I added it to all my caches a while back and want to add it to the new caches I recently put out. Thanks!:)

I make that mistake off and on myself, it's just unfortunate everyone can't correct their own anymore. :(

The tutorial can "easily" be found in the new Article menu of the main page in the Web Site Help section, subheading Promoting GcMaine on Your Cache Page (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4295). Or, just click the link I just provided. :)

I think it's great more and more people are adding this to all their web pages.

brdad
01-12-2010, 04:01 AM
What about kids caching with parents?

If the kid(s) are caching under the parent's user name or family team in some cases, then there really is no problem. The only problem I would see then is if the kids were old enough to go find some alone in one place and the parents found some in another place, and each logged as the team. It's not really a big deal, personally I don't think it is in the spirit of the game and it is another example that you can't compare one cacher's numbers to another cacher's.

Many husbands and wives share the same account as well, but generally it is assumed that only one of the spouses finds all of the caches logged. My account originally indicated both myself and my son, though he very rarely goes now. But all of the finds claimed under the account have been visited by me. If he was to someday start caching on his own, I would not let him log under my account, I would have him create his own and I think most cache hiders would allow him to log the caches we could honestly say he visited with me. This happens quite often actually. Any that we were unsure of or the hider would not allow, he could revisit for the find.

I think it'd be a good idea for a lot of kids to have their own account and be responsible for logging their finds, reflecting on their find in their own words.

Lee and I cache as two separate cachers, and intend to keep it that way. She has her finds, and I have mine. We very rarely cache apart now, but we are still our own entity in that regard.

JustKev
01-12-2010, 04:27 AM
JustPJ66 (Pam) and I cache together. We have a rubber stamp to use on the log in the cache, one stamp both names. We will log our finds seperately on GC.com and if we were to cache alone, probably wouldn't use the rubber stamp. In those caches with log books large enough to invite a log as well as a signature, we'll play those by ear and use the stamp on some, physically sign others. One thing we won't be doing is logging caches we haven't been to. If I were to go alone, Pam wouldn't log my finds as hers and vice versa.

brdad
01-12-2010, 04:44 AM
If bogus logging of caches was widespread, I'd have 900,000 finds already. I don't think it is as widespread and as big of a problem as we think.

As I stated before, I don't think it is as much of an issue locally, but it may be more of a problem than you think and without education new cachers have no idea. It all depends on what you call "not in the spirit" or "cheating", and how much you think it degrades the game for the rest of us.

There was an event just last weekend out of state. Only 40 people were allowed to attend because of allowed space at the campground. I counted 14 different accounts logged to the event, and between those there are 319 attended logs. Many logged multiple times for each temporary event cache. One newer cacher had 90 cache finds before the event and 152 finds after - 62 logs on one event! It's hard to call these people cheaters - they obviously consider this the norm, but it sure makes the rest of us cachers look like a bunch of idiots nor is it in the spirit of the game in my opinion.

I could give you a ton of links that are questionable about being in the spirit of the game, and another list of those that most would consider cheating to some degree. Very few locally. But give it time, it will come.

And for those that do cheat by creating bogus logs, I don't agree that they are only cheating themselves. Just like when a sports player or other public figure gets caught cheating it really degrades the sport or venue that person is involved in.

dubord207
01-12-2010, 07:37 AM
Thanks Dave, and I hope when I hit the button this post comes out correctly! What the heck were you doing up at 03:44?:)


I make that mistake off and on myself, it's just unfortunate everyone can't correct their own anymore. :(

The tutorial can "easily" be found in the new Article menu of the main page in the Web Site Help section, subheading Promoting GcMaine on Your Cache Page (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4295). Or, just click the link I just provided. :)

I think it's great more and more people are adding this to all their web pages.

brdad
01-12-2010, 08:55 AM
Thanks Dave, and I hope when I hit the button this post comes out correctly! What the heck were you doing up at 03:44?:)

I have problems shutting my mind off some nights, other nights I have problems shutting my plumbing off. Last night was a little of both! ;) I guess it was the combination of having time to ponder what to build next and drinking a few gallons of water/soda on the way back from NH yesterday. I'm also pondering presenting something to the caching community...

pm28570
01-12-2010, 09:29 AM
I thought I had this quote thing down pat......go ahead Dave, and thanks.



PS: If either of the past two posters would like their quoted text fixed, give me the ok and I'll fix it.

TRF
01-12-2010, 12:40 PM
... ... I guess it was the combination of having time to ponder what to build next and drinking a few gallons of water/soda on the way back from NH yesterday. I'm also pondering presenting something to the caching community...

Oh no, not a formal request for geo-police?:eek: ;)

brdad
01-12-2010, 12:57 PM
Oh no, not a formal request for geo-police?:eek: ;)

Not quite, but if I don't word it right it may come across that way. :o

Sudonim
01-12-2010, 01:17 PM
As I stated before, I don't think it is as much of an issue locally, but it may be more of a problem than you think and without education new cachers have no idea. It all depends on what you call "not in the spirit" or "cheating", and how much you think it degrades the game for the rest of us.

There was an event just last weekend out of state. Only 40 people were allowed to attend because of allowed space at the campground. I counted 14 different accounts logged to the event, and between those there are 319 attended logs. Many logged multiple times for each temporary event cache. One newer cacher had 90 cache finds before the event and 152 finds after - 62 logs on one event! It's hard to call these people cheaters - they obviously consider this the norm, but it sure makes the rest of us cachers look like a bunch of idiots nor is it in the spirit of the game in my opinion.

I could give you a ton of links that are questionable about being in the spirit of the game, and another list of those that most would consider cheating to some degree. Very few locally. But give it time, it will come.

And for those that do cheat by creating bogus logs, I don't agree that they are only cheating themselves. Just like when a sports player or other public figure gets caught cheating it really degrades the sport or venue that person is involved in.

An event like this is why this thread (IMO) is valuable to new cachers. When I was at one of my first events, there were "pocket caches" that people were logging. "Cool" I thought, I can get 5 or 6 logs at one spot. A couple of days after I multiple-logged the event, I read a post from another attendee of the same event and why they weren't going to log the event more than once. I agreed with their thoughts and retracted all but one of my logs. I just didn't know better at the time.
It's like golf, you play the way you want to play, kicking the ball to improve your lie is fine for some, not for others. This is a solo sport (sometimes played with others) and your interpretation of the rules dictate how you play (and more importantly, enjoy yourself).

lexmano
01-12-2010, 02:24 PM
Oh no, not a formal request for geo-police?:eek: ;)

Dave, please sleep at night and stop troubling yourself with the quality of our geocaching experiences!

Complete agreement will never be attained, so "Why Worry, Be Happy":)

brdad
01-12-2010, 03:14 PM
Dave, please sleep at night and stop troubling yourself with the quality of our geocaching experiences!

Complete agreement will never be attained, so "Why Worry, Be Happy":)

That's like saying everyone will never agree with what the gov't is doing, so let them do what they like!

Don't worry, I'm not going to post it unless I think it's good for everyone.

JustKev
01-12-2010, 04:16 PM
Geo-phuzz :)

dubord207
01-12-2010, 05:49 PM
I have to laugh at some of the things cachers do "by mistake" and apparently other things that most here would agree just aren't right.

So I confess to a newbie mistake very early in my caching career and that was logging a find on a cache that I placed!! I got a gentle "nudge" from maniac1957 politely advising that most cachers don't log finds on their own caches...saw the logic in that and deleted the log!

I would think that anybody reading this thread would be walking the "straight and narrow" when they post finds!;)

WhereRWe?
01-12-2010, 05:51 PM
I have to laugh at some of the things cachers do "by mistake" and apparently other things that most here would agree just aren't right.


Sheesh! Don't get me started on dogs that "place caches" that their owners then log... :mad::mad:

dubord207
01-12-2010, 05:56 PM
Has that really happened? I suppose it could, but c'mon! I did have a client many years ago that got himself in a lot of trouble with the IRS. He had a Great Dane with a lot of health issues so he added the dog as a dependent on his tax returns. The kicker was when the dog died and he tried to deduct "burial and estate" expenses! Uncle didn't buy my offering that the whole thing was just "an honest mistake.";) He had a 45 day period where he was unable to cache, go to work, play golf or sleep in his own bed!:)

brdad
01-12-2010, 06:16 PM
Has that really happened?

Yes it has, the dog has his own account, nearly 3 times the number of finds you have and the owners of the dog have logged finds on his hides. The only reason outside of the acquisition of numbers I have heard is they probably log them to get them off their nearest caches list.

WhereRWe?
01-12-2010, 06:35 PM
The only reason outside of the acquisition of numbers I have heard is they probably log them to get them off their nearest caches list.

Sheesh! I don't think so...

brdad
01-12-2010, 06:52 PM
And this is a perfect example where most would not really call this cheating - there is no effort to deceive (at least IMO), but it certainly seems to be not in the spirit of the game in most people's minds, and makes a mockery of the game (IMO). Can you imagine watching a TV spot on geocaching where a reporter takes a family and their cat out to the nearest lamp post, they place the cache under the cats name, and then go back out and find the cache. That certainly would not have enticed me to start caching!

This is also the reason I have no interest in comparing any cacher's numbers against any others. I won't deny anyone their finds, but we each put different effort into any cache. I alone know what effort I put into my finds, you know what effort you put into yours. And the dog knows what effort he put into his. :o

JustKev
01-12-2010, 07:07 PM
I would think that comparing finds would be something that would be between two or more cachers who all want to compare. They would be free to decide amongst themselves what the "guidelines" would be for the comparison. I wouldn't compare my finds against someone who was in a position to go at will and I have to find time when I am not working and don't have other things I need to do. My sole reason for getting into geocaching was to have another thing my wife and I can do together. We're interested in finding caches at our leisure, in places that may be a little more accessible than others this time of year because we're not set up to trudge through snow of any depth. That may come in time but we're not going to this year. I do have to say, the only caches my dog leaves are the ones you don't want to step in.

Sudonim
01-12-2010, 07:28 PM
I have to laugh at some of the things cachers do "by mistake" and apparently other things that most here would agree just aren't right.

So I confess to a newbie mistake very early in my caching career and that was logging a find on a cache that I placed!! I got a gentle "nudge" from maniac1957 politely advising that most cachers don't log finds on their own caches...saw the logic in that and deleted the log!

I would think that anybody reading this thread would be walking the "straight and narrow" when they post finds!;)

I've seen quite a few people do that. The newbies usually say oops, didn't know, but there are a few with 1000's under their belts that know what they are doing. Again, you are only playing against yourself.

Ekidokai
01-12-2010, 08:00 PM
One easy way to keep the "mistakes" and "violations" down, stuff the offenders in nanos and bury them in a national park.

WhereRWe?
01-12-2010, 08:25 PM
One easy way to keep the "mistakes" and "violations" down, stuff the offenders in nanos and bury them in a national park.

Or on the Appalachian Trail...

Ekidokai
01-13-2010, 07:03 AM
There you go.