View Full Version : Closed Threads



pm28570
02-02-2010, 09:24 AM
http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/image.php?u=6&dateline=1178553071 (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/member.php?u=6) brdad (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/member.php?u=6) http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/statusicon/user_offline.gif
Hands off my peavey!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bangor, ME
GC Name: brdad (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=brdad) Posts: 3,479


http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
This is not the venue for this type of conversation and IMO posting against the Geocaching Maine User Agreement (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/../index.php?page=agreement).

Thread Closed


Dave, I was disappointed to see the thread closed. I agree it is in violation of the user agreement, I cannot agree with Chadd's position and my opinion is that the original post should not have occurred. That said, I believe I had something to say that would contribute to the issue and perhaps enable the poster to see things in a different light.

I must also say, the volunteer moderators, at times, have to make a decision that serves the common good and you made that decision. I certainly cannot fault that. Being responsible often ticks off people!:)

brdad
02-02-2010, 09:30 AM
I hear you. I did what I did based on fear that either Chad, Tom, or the owner of the cache posted would be overly criticized.

Anyone is welcome to start a new thread discussing any of the issues if they can just restrain from singling out people or caches. I understand his feeling on the cache first mentioned, I have been annoyed by similar caches in the past as well. But there is a better way to discuss it.

If you feel you cannot generalize and need to address the particular incident, you can do so personally by PM.

TRF
02-02-2010, 09:51 AM
I hear you. I did what I did based on fear that either ... ... ... would be overly criticized.


You could also justify closing most threads based on that same "POTENTIAL."

Didn't Ben Franklin say that, Giving up ones liberties thinking you are gaining security is a sure way to lose your freedom.

Seems that providing censorship in the guise of potentially protecting people is a sure way to lose our rights to say what we wish.

Yours is a hard decision for sure, Dave.

my 2 cents

pm28570
02-02-2010, 10:17 AM
I can't agree that this being "censored". It's a private site that provides guidelines for posting and I am here by choice. Pretty straightforward. While I disagree with Dave's actions, I respect his decision and hope that he's uses the same good judgment in the future.

cano
02-02-2010, 10:37 AM
I'm not sure what other option Chadd has had since cache owner, publisher or groundspeak did not care to resolve this issue at all, but I'm sure with one thing, soon a new geocaching web sites without any censorship or any other restrictive practises will emerge.

brdad
02-02-2010, 10:40 AM
You could also justify closing most threads based on that same "POTENTIAL."

To solely close it based on what is feared to happen would be wrong, but as I stated in the thread the post was also against the Geocaching Maine User Agreement.

And again, anyone can start a new thread discussing about what to do about caches that are listed incorrectly or how many have been wronged by an approver, just don't single out those individuals or caches.


I'm not sure what other option Chadd has had since cache owner, publisher or groundspeak did not care to resolve this issue at all, but I'm sure with one thing, soon a new geocaching web sites without any censorship or any other restrictive practises will emerge.

Be sure to check out the new anythinggoescaching.com site, where there are no restrictive practices or censorship. Hiders are now allowed to place caches on bridges, bury them in cemeteries, and there is no distance restriction, they can be placed on top of each other. You are allowed to booby trap your caches with flying knives and adult oriented trade items are encouraged, as is food. You are allowed to log any cache as often as you like, even if you don't find it. Oh yes, that sounds much better than the dictatorship known as gc.com. :rolleyes::p:rolleyes:

TRF
02-02-2010, 10:50 AM
I can't agree that this being "censored". It's a private site that provides guidelines for posting and I am here by choice. Pretty straightforward. While I disagree with Dave's actions, I respect his decision and hope that he's uses the same good judgment in the future.

Private site or not doesn't change the definition of censorship (http://gilc.org/speech/osistudy/censorship/). The guidelines being referred to were not being specifically violated any more than the post for a person to visit a certain business. The word "fear" could be substituted for "potential" in the context it was used.

I agree that I am here by choice and IF GeocachingMaine.org wishes to take an official stance on an issue will determine IF I wish to visit or not.

My point wasn't a criticism as much as trying to determine where the "fine line" is actually being drawn. As pointed out, the moderator(s) do have a tough job in figuring out where that line is. I don't envy them.

Remember, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

pm28570
02-02-2010, 11:09 AM
This just points out that I was wrong as a teenager......I will need to know Latin as an adult.

TRF, lets agree to disagree on the finer points. :)


Remember, Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

TRF
02-02-2010, 11:12 AM
This just points out that I was wrong as a teenager......I will need to know Latin as an adult.

TRF, lets agree to disagree on the finer points. :)

Fair enough.:)

Cache On!!

CARoperPhotography
02-02-2010, 11:17 AM
I considered posting a thread regarding the censorship imposed by brdad on my original thread, but thought I would wait.... so thank you TRF for posting this thread regardless of your personal opinion regarding the issue that my original thread was about.

I would have liked to have responded to the comments on that thread, but apparently some cachers, and Geocachinginmaine.org members have more pull than others, which allows them to get in what they have to say and then cut off all other postings afterwards.

I am not going to continue to argue my original point here, as I see it is pointless and I am outnumbered. However if any of you want to make specific comments, I will respond to them.

Hypocrisy and inconsistency seems to be at an all time high right now.

cano
02-02-2010, 11:34 AM
To solely close it based on what is feared to happen would be wrong, but as I stated in the thread the post was also against the Geocaching Maine User Agreement.

And again, anyone can start a new thread discussing about what to do about caches that are listed incorrectly or how many have been wronged by an approver, just don't single out those individuals or caches.



Be sure to check out the new anythinggoescaching.com site, where there are no restrictive practices or censorship. Hiders are now allowed to place caches on bridges, bury them in cemeteries, and there is no distance restriction, they can be placed on top of each other. You are allowed to booby trap your caches with flying knives and adult oriented trade items are encouraged, as is food. You are allowed to log any cache as often as you like, even if you don't find it. Oh yes, that sounds much better than the dictatorship known as gc.com. :rolleyes::p:rolleyes:

Why do you think people will start behaving like this? If you had the option to booby trap you cache with knives would you do it? I have no problem with caches on bridges I found some. I welcome buried caches, it would be a nice twist to use metal detectors and shovels, however it should be mentioned in cache description. Don't be ridiculous with booby traps. I welcome adult material in caches :) , kid unfriendly attribute already exists. Food in caches, no problem for me, if your cache will be eaten by wild animals you will not do it again. Do you need to take a **** into my cache? No problem I already put a toilet paper in one (TB2A9XY). Do you need to log your find hundred times? No problem with me, feel free to log any of my caches as many times as you wish even if you don't find it. Caches stuck on each other? It would be funny I hope I will find one day something like this. Don't get me wrong I'm not against guidelines I'm against enforcing them. Regulations will kill the progress. If you have a bad idea about placing a cache, this idea will die with your cache itself after time.

oneday
02-02-2010, 02:24 PM
Be sure to check out the new anythinggoescaching.com site, where there are no restrictive practices or censorship. Hiders are now allowed to place caches on bridges, bury them in cemeteries, and there is no distance restriction, they can be placed on top of each other. You are allowed to booby trap your caches with flying knives and adult oriented trade items are encouraged, as is food. You are allowed to log any cache as often as you like, even if you don't find it. Oh yes, that sounds much better than the dictatorship known as gc.com. :rolleyes::p:rolleyes:


brdad....are you sure that is the site....I went but no luck. :confused:

Was looking forward to booby traps! :D

dubord207
02-02-2010, 03:17 PM
Like others, I was surprised to see the thread closed so quickly but I could see a potential for things to "get personal", something I have learned not to do (but not without my moments). That said, I hope there aren't any ACLU people lurking on this site!

Most members on this site have not placed a single cache so they really don't understand both the "highs" and the "lows" of cache ownership. The highs are easy, just reading logs of fellow cachers who write positive notes about their experience while finding your cache, or perhaps the chuckle Laughing Terry gets from a lawyer who needed 4 hints to find the 2 Cent Bridge Cache or the head-scratching some of the puzzle caches cause. But it's all fun and the smiley's of your fellow cachers make your effort worthwhile.

Then there's the lows....lost or damaged caches, negative posts (rare, but they will happen), ignored caches and even the dismissive note from the Maine Reviewer indicating an issue with one of your new placements. These are why cache owners react both positively and negatively to commentary about their hides. If you haven't walked a mile in Chadd's shoes or been the part of "discussions" cache placers have with Tom when the placement doesn't fit the guidelines, then you probably don't apppreciate what all the hub-bub is about.

While I wouldn't have pulled the plug so quickly as the few posts made weren't nasty at all, I did suggest and continue to suggest that these type of "disagreements" are best resolved in private. There's a lot of great writers here who offer some well-thought out and persuasive posts, but if it starts down "personality row" then I say take it outside the site.

And one last comment. I don't know how, but apparently PM's can be saved and later posted as an attachment. If you do resort to Private e-mails, then I think they should stay that way. That's my 2 cents worth. Hope Chadd continues placing caches all over the place and again, we all have to tip or hats to Tom's efforts for reviewing them all.

cano
02-02-2010, 03:27 PM
While I wouldn't have pulled the plug so quickly as the few posts made weren't nasty at all, I did suggest and continue to suggest that these type of "disagreements" are best resolved in private.


The problem is it couldn't be solved privately, that's why that thread started at first place.

brdad
02-02-2010, 04:13 PM
The problem is it couldn't be solved privately, that's why that thread started at first place.

There is no way members of this site are going to solve it anyway, short of petitioning gc.com.

However, the discussion could have been made less personal and still valued as a discussion:

Possible thread #1:
I have come across a few caches which in my opinion are not listed correctly. These caches are listed as traditional but the posted coordinates only take you to the parking area or other starting point. From there, you must follow directions to make your way to the cache itself. Some may even have a clue or coordinates at the starting point as a multi would have. Does anyone else feel these caches are not listed correctly, and what is the best way to address the issue?

Possible thread #2:
I recently submitted a cache at the posted location of an archived cache only to find out that the original one is eventually going to be replaced with a multi. So my cache has been denied. I even sent an email to TPTB and they are still denying my hide. I can't help but think I am being singled out. Has anyone else experienced this in their cache placements? And what could be my next course of action?

Eventually caches and owners may get mentioned, but the focus should be on the topic and not on the individuals involved.

Regarding Dan's comment - My decision was based on the opening post, not on any of the replies, which were in good form.

WhereRWe?
02-02-2010, 04:21 PM
... but apparently some cachers, and Geocachinginmaine.org members have more pull than others, which allows them to get in what they have to say and then cut off all other postings afterwards.


This is a private web site, and as such, it subject to the whims of the site owner (Attroll). I would say that he rightly has "more pull than others".

The site owner (Attroll) and Brdad are both elected members of the GeocachingMaine.org Advisory Board, and are both administrators on this web site. I would say that this also gives them "more pull than others".

Attroll and Brdad are among the most respected members of the Maine geocahing community. I would certainly respect their judgement on all matters concerning this web site.

:D:D

Ekidokai
02-02-2010, 05:01 PM
I feel as I should comment on his issue for several reasons. I am also a board member. I feel if I do not comment it would be like cowering in the corner.

I really like Tat. I have meet him several times and we have talked about all kinds of different things. I also like Chadd. We have talked several times about various things. Groudspeak is OK too I guess. BRdad, well thats another story. ;)

All that being said I support Brdads action. I might have been one of the first people to read the thread and felt the same way, this might be a little over the edge. I almost alerted the board, but I wanted to see how this would play out.

In my other endeavors I have learned there are different perspectives to what is going on around us. Luckily I have been able to keep my mind open and look at these things from different angles. It is amazing how different things look when you try and see things from a different perspective.

I understand Chadd's situation. I have been in his position, and with a little push I was able to open up my perception and get a different look at things. I was still mad but could understand the issue better.

I hope Chadd will read this and give this issue some time before taking action.

TRF
02-02-2010, 05:11 PM
This is a private web site, and as such, it subject to the whims of the site owner (Attroll). I would say that he rightly has "more pull than others".

The site owner (Attroll) and Brdad are both elected members of the GeocachingMaine.org Advisory Board, and are both administrators on this web site. I would say that this also gives them "more pull than others".

Attroll and Brdad are among the most respected members of the Maine geocahing community. I would certainly respect their judgement on all matters concerning this web site.

:D:D

The intent with this post is lost on me. Attroll and Brdad ARE respected members as ALL members should be and are by me. More pull on this website should only mean that its members have placed greater responsibility on them to make harder decisions, i.e. BrDads decision to close a thread. I may disagree with that decision but I respect him for it. I may disagree with CARoper... but I respect him for his post too. So, again, I'm lost on the intent of this post. :confused::confused:

brdad
02-02-2010, 05:28 PM
I agree "more pull" is perhaps a bad choice or words - except in Ricks case, where he does and have should have more pull in the internal working of the web site. No one should have more pull regarding what is posted. If I post something against the terms it should be addressed the same as it would for any other member.

That being said, we have a good group here and generally it is self moderating. I have only deleted a couple threads which were inappropriate and discussed with the board deleting one more which was of a commercial nature - that topic's appeal dwindled fast so it was left alone. Many posts including my own push the edge at times. But when a post breaks multiple points in the agreement, it is a different story.

Now if anyone's issue is with the agreement itself, that is another subject.

WhereRWe?
02-02-2010, 06:50 PM
The intent with this post is lost on me.

I'm not surprised...

:D:D

CARoperPhotography
02-02-2010, 07:33 PM
Everyone,

The reason the thread was started in the first place was, as Cano said the issue could not be solved privately. I had attempted to solve the issue "privately" for the better part of my entire caching career (since early Summer 2009) yet it only got worse with no replies from any of the parties to my inquiries.

Yes, this is a "private" site. This means that the moderators can end threads and censor topics. Is this ok? Yes. Is it good for the sport of Geocaching and for the Maine Geocaching Community? No it is not.

I would think that this site's intention and goal would be, to provide an open place for Geocachers to discuss OPENLY caches, and issues within the esoteric Geocaching society. Where else are we to discuss issues such as the one that I am currently attempting to resolve? We aren't supposed to post comments on actual cache listings on GC.com, and I have been told by Groundspeak not to EVER contact KEDS again regarding this issue. So, that rules out attempting to deal with the issue privately. So, Groundspeak has effectively neutered my ability to solve this issue, through diplomacy (which mind you, when I attempted over and over before, resulted in no dialogue since the parties involved refused to even respond to my messages).

Since I have begun Geocaching, I have been the one who has gotten dumped on ANONYMOUSLY by other cachers when one of my hides has pissed them off in some way shape or form. I highly dislike anonymous tattle tale activities. And so, I decided that since other cachers seem not to have the common decency to confront me personally and privately regarding an issue with my cache, I neither shall either. I shall do it publicly so ALL cachers will know of the issue with their cache.

I am not a spineless twit who will back down at the slightest perception of someone with "authority" in the 'Maine Geocaching Community' confronting me. Nor do I or will I lay down when confronted with inconsistencies with cache placements.

Let me give an example. Brdad, you mentioned in your post about the fictional anythinggoescaching.com site, that caches would now be allowed on bridges. Well, that would imply that caches are not allowed to be placed on bridges with GC.com's Guidelines. As I understand it, the guidelines are in place for that senario due to hightened homeland security and the possibility of increased or suspicious activity on a bridge which can lead to possible criminal issues. However, I know of MANY caches that are on bridges, some placed by very good friends of mine. Now, those caches were placed before the Groundspeak guidelines changed and made bridge cache placements 'illiegal'. However, as I understand it, those caches placed before the change of guidelines are 'grandfathered' and not subject to said guideline. Why is this? If it is a homeland security issue, and could involve law enforcement, then looking at the safety and security issue, I would think it would take precedent and force these 'grandfathered' caches to be removed. Yet, they are still in place. Should I start complaining to Groundspeak about this?

How about railroad tracks? I tried to place a cache in Thomaston, ME at the old Maine State Prison site over the summer and it was denied because it was under 150 feet in distance to an active railroad. I pleaded with the reviewer and finally had to drive to Thomaston and move my cache. No reasoning, privately and diplomatically would pull the reviewer out of his trench on this. However, since then I have come across NUMEROUS caches that have been published SINCE that issue that are WELL under the 150ft distance to an active railroad. Heck, two are even located on a trail system in Portland which require you to follow a trail across the railroad tracks, and you can see the tracks only 80 feet away from the cache site. I have taken note of all these caches but have not said a word to Groundspeak or the reviewer.

I think the problem with me, and my caching is that I am a person whom uses REASON to guide me in life, and unfortunately, rules, regulations, Guidelines, and people of authority are not based on REASON.

I am not going to back down on this issue. I could truly see my GC membership being cancelled by Groundspeak in the near future because I am putting up such a stink. I could also see myself being forcibly removed from geocachinginmaine.org due to this. I wouldn't put it past the 'respected members' of the Maine Geocaching Community who run this site to do so.

That being said, I want to thank brdad for allowing THIS thread to continue because it has in essence allowed my original thread to live another day.

I apologize that this posting is long and covers many topics, but I am not able to log onto the site throughout my work day and keep updated on the newest comment thread.

WhereRWe?
02-02-2010, 07:42 PM
I could also see myself being forcibly removed from geocachinginmaine.org due to this. I wouldn't put it past the 'respected members' of the Maine Geocaching Community who run this site to do so.


Then you really don't know the "respected members" of the Maine Geocaching Community who administer this site, or you would know that they would not do this. Your sneering remarks do them a disservice.

Sheesh! I've been here for almost 6 years, and they haven't gotten rid of me! LOL!

:D:D

CARoperPhotography
02-02-2010, 07:49 PM
That's fine. I have had enough "sneering" remarks from them, in my short time using this site in regards to my own caches, others, and certain series' of caches, and have seen plenty from them in other regard to other threads as well.

As far as doing them a "disservice", I'd like to archive all my caches and see who the "disservice" effects. Not them, because they have no desire to find them. But it will effect the enjoyment of the 'game' to many many other cachers who travel from miles around to hit many of my caches.

Remember, respect is gained. And if this means that I have lost respect from other cachers over this, then I must not have had their respect in the first place.

CARoperPhotography
02-02-2010, 08:01 PM
I find it interesting that no one here has even attempted to challenge me on the substantial issue that my original thread was about. I laid out a detailed synopsis here and in the original thread yet all anyone who does disgree with me can say is just that; they disagree.

brdad
02-02-2010, 08:36 PM
Let me give an example. Brdad...

My comment about bridges was referring to those bridges which are currently off limits by gc.com. Outside of that, I do not know why existing caches in areas which are determined to be sensitive are allowed to stay. I don't know how gc.com determines which bridges are sensitive. I also don't know why they discontinued virtuals which the hider was required to provide good reason why a cache should be allowed there and replaced it with allowing urban caches to be placed nearly anywhere without and good cause whatsoever. I also don't know how they know which RR tracks are ok to be near and which are not (After all, I have a cache which is 15 feet from active RR tracks). I don't know why gc.com does half of what they do. If I ran it, it'd be different - some rules would be lessened, some would be tightened. I think most of us would make adjustments if we were at the helm. But we're not.

What I do know (or at least believe) is gc.com is making an effort to make the sport safe and enjoyable to as many people as they can (which makes sense to be profitable). Cache approvers do not visit cache sites so they make their decisions based on the information they have available to them. They are human and do make mistakes.

My advice would only be to consider your odds of being questioned about your hides as well. You have hidden 290 caches in less than a year. That is a lot of caches. I am guessing (correct me if I am wrong) that many of these are urban or at least in more populated neighborhoods. Those two factors alone are going to subject you as a cache hider to questioning much more than the average cache hider. I have hidden 6 caches in 7 years and have been questioned on one of them. One sixth of your hides is 48 caches, and that is not taking into account 4 of my hides are away from civilization. Factor that in with how much research (land ownership, nearby caches, permission) you have done before placing your caches and adjust your odds accordingly. Only you know the answer to that.

brdad
02-02-2010, 08:46 PM
I find it interesting that no one here has even attempted to challenge me on the substantial issue that my original thread was about. I laid out a detailed synopsis here and in the original thread yet all anyone who does disgree with me can say is just that; they disagree.

Regarding the original part of your post, the improperly labeled cache - I have run into caches like that and it has annoyed me. Most of them I made a comment in my log about it and left it at that. I did not threaten to have it archived nor did I send multiple emails to the cache owner. Sometimes it is a mistake, sometimes they are grandfathered. You've seen me get excited about some issues regarding caches, but IMO a small number of improperly marked caches are not an issue which will degrade the sport.

Regarding approvers that single out cache hiders - they are people too and I am sure it has and does happen on occasion. But I think if an approver behaved this way continually eventually enough people would speak up and a replacement would be made. I really think this is a rare occurrence, especially in lower density areas like Maine.

rcwhit
02-02-2010, 09:05 PM
I find it interesting that no one here has even attempted to challenge me on the substantial issue that my original thread was about. I laid out a detailed synopsis here and in the original thread yet all anyone who does disgree with me can say is just that; they disagree.

Why should we CHALLENGE you on anything. This is just a hobby. If someone is not acting the way you think they should, just ignore them. Why get so worked up over 1 cache by 1 person. If I have an issue with a cache, I ignore it and go to the next one. Life is too short to get this worked up over something like that, so I guess I will not be CHALLENGING you on this, I'll just be moving on to the next therad. :D

lexmano
02-02-2010, 09:06 PM
http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/statusicon/post_old.gif Today, 07:12 AM
http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/image.php?u=6&dateline=1178553071 (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/member.php?u=6) brdad (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/member.php?u=6) http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/statusicon/user_online.gif
Hands off my peavey!
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Bangor, ME
GC Name: brdad (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/?u=brdad) Posts: 3,488


http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon1.gif
This is not the venue for this type of conversation and IMO posting against the Geocaching Maine User Agreement (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/../index.php?page=agreement).

Thread Closed
__________________


If so why was Bruce allowed to enter a comment at 7:59AM? It would seem we should all get a chance to post once more to the closed thread. I had seen the original posting and a couple of the responses and was considering a reply. When I went back I saw the thread closed, so I was considering posting a thread about the closure, when Paul beat me to it.

Then later I logged on and found activity on the thread. Seems like a Chadd is correct in his fears of insiders controlling the boards. The thread is closed to the commoners, yet not to the insiders.:eek:

vicbiker
02-02-2010, 09:27 PM
Chadd, I think you need to remember this is a game...something that most of us do for enjoyment...if I don't like a cache or the way it is done...guess what! I don't do it...that's way GSAK put that filter on the top of the page. Or put it on your ignore list...problem solved. There are always many more great caches down the road....like some of those fun ones I've done in the Massabeesic Forest...4x4ing through the ice and snow doing some of your caches...that's the kind of stuff I do for enjoyment.



A game is a structured activity (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/activity), usually undertaken for enjoyment (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enjoyment) and sometimes used as an educational (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education) tool. Games are distinct from work (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manual_labour), which is usually carried out for remuneration (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/remuneration), and from art (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Art), which is more concerned with the expression of ideas. However, the distinction is not clear-cut, and many games are also considered to be work (such as professional players of spectator sports/games) or art (such as jigsaw puzzles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jigsaw_puzzle) or games involving an artistic layout such as Mahjong (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahjong) solitaire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solitaire)).
Key components of games are goals, rules (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/rule), challenge (http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/challenge), and interaction (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interaction). Games generally involve mental or physical stimulation, and often both. Many games help develop practical skills (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skills), serve as a form of exercise (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exercise), or otherwise perform an educational (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education), simulational (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulation) or psychological (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychology) role. According to Chris Crawford (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chris_Crawford_%28game_designer%29), the requirement for player interaction puts activities such as jigsaw puzzles and solitaire "games" into the category of puzzles (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Puzzle) rather than games.[1] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game#cite_note-craw-0)

brdad
02-02-2010, 09:57 PM
If so why was Bruce allowed to enter a comment at 7:59AM?

It wasn't so much that he was allowed, it's more that since he is moderating new accounts, he also has the ability to post to closed threads. I imagine (and hope) that this was an overlook on his part. I have made similar mistakes in the past and have apologized to the affected parties and learned from the experience.

CARoperPhotography
02-03-2010, 12:23 AM
Vic, thank you for totally disproving your argument that "this is only a game" with your posted definition of a game!

CARoperPhotography
02-03-2010, 09:02 PM
I always get a good laugh when cachers tell me to "Relax, it's only a game". Especially when they follow that remark with a definition of a game and it clearly includes RULES.

To anyone who thinks games are something which do not or should not bring about frustration with the authorities who apply and decide rules, I ask is football, or baseball just a game? That are just games. Yet we all get worked up by referee's calls, coaching moves, bad plays, etc. If we used the logic "it's only a game", ESPN and all the sports talk radio shows wouldn't exist because no one would care to watch them since we aren't to take "games" seriously.

Regardless of what any of you think, there are some serious inconsistencies with how the rules have been applied to my cache hides, vs. other's cache hides. Glaring inconsistencies which have been backed up by Groundspeak, which is terrible. There is no accountability.

Regardless of whether I have 290 cache hides, or 1, the rules should be applied across the boards equally from one cacher to another, and from one hide to another.

And as far as bridge caches go, Brdad, yes, interstate bridges are expressly off limits, yet when I tried to place a cache on a cool back roads bridge in Buxton, Maine in the village of Moderation over the Saco River, it was denied using Groundspeaks bridge and security guideline, yet I know of two caches in the Portland area which are placed much closer to urbanized areas and more highly traveled roads which are still in happy existence.

Gob-ler
02-03-2010, 11:11 PM
Chadd when you post and post again with out others posting it looks like your talking to yourself.

Anyways, Relax and don't sweat the small stuff! (And remember, it is all small stuff!)

I have had a cache or two denied over the years and can fondly remember feeling a little like you do, but rather than making a mountain out of a molehill I moved on. There are plenty of places out there to hide caches.

My great great grandmother used to point here gnarly finger at me and utter words of wisdom at appropriate times. One of her favorites (at least I thought it was her favorite) was "remember that when you point your finger at someone else you have several pointing back at you."

Even with all your accomplishments in the realm of Geocaching, you are still relatively new at it. The perspective you have right now about some things will change with time. Some of it may not, but the fact is we all see things through our own set of filters.

Your bull in the china closet type of attitude and the whole I am going to hold everyone publicly accountable statement is duly noted. As I said to you privately, there are several sides to these issues and the truth is undoubtedly somewhere in the middle of all of it.

I wish you well with your efforts regarding what you so obviously feel so strongly about. You have made your points loud and clear for all to read. What is continuing to pound on them is going to gain you?

firefighterjake
02-04-2010, 09:49 AM
. . .My great great grandmother used to point here gnarly finger at me and utter words of wisdom at appropriate times. One of her favorites (at least I thought it was her favorite) was "remember that when you point your finger at someone else you have several pointing back at you."
. . .

I've heard the same . . . well almost the same . . . I think it was "When you point your finger at someone else you have three pointing back to you. . ."

Which is true in most places except for Waldo County . . . here you may have none pointing back to you due to that hay baler acccident all those years ago . . . or conversely you have seven pointing back to you thanks to all of the genetic inbreeding. ;) :) And yes, fellow Waldo Countyites I am just kidding . . . I mean I love my sister-cousin-aunt and in truth it was not a hay baler that did me in . . . it was the fact that I was trying to get the snow and ice chunks out of the running snowblower! ;) :)

TRF
02-04-2010, 09:59 AM
Seems everytime I point a finger at someone, that someone looks at me and points toward the sky, or maybe they are just showing me their ring. I'm not sure. :)

Cache On!!!

JustKev
02-04-2010, 12:22 PM
Seems everytime I point a finger at someone, that someone looks at me and points toward the sky, or maybe they are just showing me their ring. I'm not sure. :)

Cache On!!!

I thought that was the original "digital communication"?

dubord207
02-04-2010, 04:01 PM
Winters are VERY long in Waldo County. The plows sometimes don't get out far enough for a lot of people so they don't come to town in winter. The expression "Who's your daddy?" originated in East Burnham.:D

Hiram357
02-04-2010, 06:25 PM
Seems everytime I point a finger at someone, that someone looks at me and points toward the sky, or maybe they are just showing me their ring. I'm not sure. :)

Cache On!!!

I prefer to think that people are trying to tell me that I'm #1 :D

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 07:08 PM
I take the bull in a china shop as a back handed compliment. Much better to be a bull than a lamb being led to the slaughter quietly....

And as far as finger pointing, I wait until I have the facts on my side before I point, and the difference between myself and others is that I can handle criticism, and either deflect it, defend against it, or accept it depending on it's validity.

Regarding Waldo County, I can name 10 worse areas of Maine involved in the breeding of blood relatives. I see it on a daily basis working in Sanford. Yes, we have plenty of idiots in York county as well :-)

Anyhow, I don't foresee my involvement in this "forum" of Geocaching discussion much longer. I think my odds are about even, that I will be banned from it, or decide to voluntarily cancel my membership in the near future, which I am sure would please the vast majority of you all.

WhereRWe?
02-04-2010, 07:23 PM
Anyhow, I don't foresee my involvement in this "forum" of Geocaching discussion much longer. I think my odds are about even, that I will be banned from it, or decide to voluntarily cancel my membership in the near future, which I am sure would please the vast majority of you all.

I've been a very active member of this website for almost 6 years (and I'd bet that I'm pretty close to having the most number of posts in the forums), and to my knowledge, NOT ONE MEMBER has been banned from the site because of what they've said in the forums (actual spammers excepted).

And I'd be willing to bet good money that you won't be the first.

:D:D

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 07:40 PM
Thank you for your words of reassurance on that! A little birdie did tell me that they have tried numerous times to get you kicked out ;-) ha ha

WhereRWe?
02-04-2010, 08:22 PM
Thank you for your words of reassurance on that! A little birdie did tell me that they have tried numerous times to get you kicked out ;-) ha ha

Nobody gets kicked out for expressing their opinion. The fact that someone doesn't agree with you (or me) is not a factor.

Gob-ler
02-04-2010, 09:03 PM
As bad as I once was even I did not get banned! I even stuck around and made a few friends. OK, a lot of friends!

vicbiker
02-04-2010, 09:06 PM
Chadd, if it wasn't for your posts I'd have to go back to watching T.V.

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 09:14 PM
I don't have cable and I work six days a week, so I enjoy posting things so you guys won't go back to your TV :-)

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 09:19 PM
By the way, I just paid my $10.00 donation so now I can hold that $10.00 nucks over their heads when and if I get banned :-) see.... I have that cool green tag under my photos that says "Donating Member". Now can I be an anointed one? Please??

brdad
02-04-2010, 10:00 PM
As someone who has been banned from a geocaching web site, you're nowhere near there yet. And I wouldn't have banned me then, either.

But that doesn't mean you have to try. :p

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 10:01 PM
I think what comes naturally to me, may seem like I am trying, to you.

Mapachi
02-04-2010, 10:13 PM
Kobiyashi Maru (Star Trek)........When the rules are against you......Change them to suit you.

This works for all who dislike authority or rules.

Hey man! Tune in and tune out!

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 10:17 PM
It's not that I dislike authority or rules, I dislike when the persons in authoritative positions do not apply the rules consistently, or evenly, and reinterpret them to their advantage when it suits them. This is my prime beef with the Government.

Mapachi
02-04-2010, 10:21 PM
It's not that I dislike authority or rules, I dislike when the persons in authoritative positions do not apply the rules consistently, or evenly, and reinterpret them to their advantage when it suits them. This is my prime beef with the Government.


OH MAN! You weren't in the Army, were you!

hollora
02-04-2010, 10:22 PM
OH MAN! You weren't in the Army, were you!

My guess is Marines! ;)

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 10:23 PM
Wow hollara, you know me too well.

Semper Fi, Do or Die

hollora
02-04-2010, 10:25 PM
And - did you know - Davidson7's daugher is a Recruit at Paris Island as we communicate here. She turns 20 next week. That is a gal with GUTS!

;-)

CARoperPhotography
02-04-2010, 10:33 PM
Oooooo.... it's sand flea season right now on Parris Island. Ouch! I went to basic during this time of the year right after I graduated in Dec. at UMaine.... ahhh, what great memories.

JustKev
02-05-2010, 08:57 AM
I graduated from bootcamp 23 December 1974. Sand fleas bothered us from October through December. They can't beat blackflies for numbers but they compete with them for which is more annoying.

firefighterjake
02-05-2010, 09:06 AM
Winters are VERY long in Waldo County. The plows sometimes don't get out far enough for a lot of people so they don't come to town in winter. The expression "Who's your daddy?" originated in East Burnham.:D

East Burnham . . . don't you mean Unity?;):D

Hiram357
02-05-2010, 02:00 PM
Chadd, if it wasn't for your posts I'd have to go back to watching T.V.

Haha, somes of the posts need a "like" button, like on facebook :D

CARoperPhotography
02-05-2010, 02:06 PM
Or a dislike button.

I have a cache with an Easy Button that the sell at Staples in it. It's a 5 stage multi that runs through my local Jeep Playground down here in Kennebunk requiring a 4x4 of good capability. I have an easy button in my Jeep too :-)

brdad
02-05-2010, 02:31 PM
Haha, somes of the posts need a "like" button, like on facebook :D

Sheesh!!!!!! :rolleyes:

You people just jump on the forums and never look around, never read the terms of use, never look through all the menus, and then you come up with suggestions for making it better without knowing they might already be there! :D:D:D

At the top of every thread is a "Rate Thread" Menu, where you can rate any individual thread. I know, it's not every post, but it's a rating nonetheless.

If an individual post is real bad, there is the option of reporting it - just check the http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/buttons/report.gif icon on the top right of any post. It would help if you looked through the User Agreement (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/index.php?page=agreement) to make sure any terms have been violated.

If you dislike the posts by an individual poster, you can ignore all posts by that person. UserCP menu - Scroll down to the Edit Ignore List menu.

CARoperPhotography
02-05-2010, 03:08 PM
Yeah, so pretty much report every post I make so the thread can be closed!

robt
02-05-2010, 03:11 PM
Yeah, so pretty much report every post I make so the thread can be closed!

But if that were done reading would not be nearly as much fun :D:D:D:D

CARoperPhotography
02-05-2010, 03:13 PM
In that case, I hope everyone rates this thread and my others highly!

Hiram357
02-05-2010, 06:16 PM
Sheesh!!!!!! :rolleyes:

You people just jump on the forums and never look around, never read the terms of use, never look through all the menus, and then you come up with suggestions for making it better without knowing they might already be there! :D:D:D

At the top of every thread is a "Rate Thread" Menu, where you can rate any individual thread. I know, it's not every post, but it's a rating nonetheless.

If an individual post is real bad, there is the option of reporting it - just check the http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/buttons/report.gif icon on the top right of any post. It would help if you looked through the User Agreement (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/index.php?page=agreement) to make sure any terms have been violated.

If you dislike the posts by an individual poster, you can ignore all posts by that person. UserCP menu - Scroll down to the Edit Ignore List menu.

yeah, but that's not like facebook... facebook is much cooler..... :rolleyes::rolleyes:;):p:D

CARoperPhotography
02-05-2010, 07:29 PM
Facebook! Everyone can go add me and then you can see me opine on all other facets of the world besides Geocaching controversy!!

JustKev
02-05-2010, 09:54 PM
"If you dislike the posts by an individual poster, you can ignore all posts by that person. UserCP menu - Scroll down to the Edit Ignore List menu."

Has anyone seen brdad post anything in the last few days? I can't seem to find him.

Ekidokai
02-05-2010, 10:06 PM
I have an alibi.

brdad
02-05-2010, 10:25 PM
"If you dislike the posts by an individual poster, you can ignore all posts by that person. UserCP menu - Scroll down to the Edit Ignore List menu."

Has anyone seen brdad post anything in the last few days? I can't seem to find him.

Ha! I saw that coming! But they always unignore me long enough to ask questions when something doesn't work!

I'm guessing it wouldn't be right for me to ignore anyone if I am helping with moderating. Of course, for the right price I might be inclined... :rolleyes:

Haffy
02-06-2010, 02:27 AM
wished I would have known there was a price when I was moderating...lol

rcwhit
02-06-2010, 03:16 PM
I have an alibi.

Forget it, I'm not going to lie for you! :D

CARoperPhotography
02-06-2010, 04:02 PM
What are the statistics on stupidity?

CARoperPhotography
02-06-2010, 06:23 PM
I wonder how many users have me on their ignore list?

WhereRWe?
02-06-2010, 06:35 PM
I wonder how many users have me on their ignore list?

Sheesh! I remember that my Grandmother used to have this sing-song thing:

"Nobody loves me, everybody hates me, I'm gonna go eat worms..."

:D:D

(In answer to your question, I don't...) :p:p

Oh - and it appears you've gotten my PM in answer to your question about how to change your "user title". Your welcome.

CARoperPhotography
02-06-2010, 07:59 PM
Belated thank you! Guess I can cross you off my list of potential members who have me on their ignore list ha ha!

By the way I am respecting beer right now !!!!

WhereRWe?
02-06-2010, 08:12 PM
By the way I am respecting beer right now !!!!

Harpoon IPA, here. We plan on touring the Sam Adams (http://www.samueladams.com/verification/?nocookie) brewery in Boston on Tuesday, and also the Boston Harpoon brewery (http://www.harpoonbrewery.com/). We've already toured the Windsor, Vermont Harpoon brewery. Love those samples! (And you can get brews that are not commercially available outside a VERY limited distribution area.)

CARoperPhotography
02-06-2010, 09:55 PM
Have you tried Sam Adam's new NOBLE PILS? Had it last night on tap.... wow!

WhereRWe?
02-07-2010, 07:13 AM
Have you tried Sam Adam's new NOBLE PILS? Had it last night on tap.... wow!

No... Stuff like that is usually long gone before it gets this far north. :D:D

CARoperPhotography
03-04-2010, 11:40 PM
Just a quick update..... Groundspeak and MainePublisher finally gave in and admitted that I was in the right and ended up reviewing and publishing my cache. Sometimes you need to keep hounding them. Groundspeak even apologized....

Ekidokai
03-05-2010, 03:28 AM
Just a quick update..... Groundspeak and MainePublisher finally gave in and admitted that I was in the right and ended up reviewing and publishing my cache. Sometimes you need to keep hounding them. Groundspeak even apologized....

Get out of here? Now that is something. Holy crap!

dubord207
03-05-2010, 07:09 AM
Just a quick update..... Groundspeak and MainePublisher finally gave in and admitted that I was in the right and ended up reviewing and publishing my cache. Sometimes you need to keep hounding them. Groundspeak even apologized....


What'd you do, tell them you know Joe Bornstein?:D

lexmano
03-05-2010, 09:25 AM
Just a quick update..... Groundspeak and MainePublisher finally gave in and admitted that I was in the right and ended up reviewing and publishing my cache. Sometimes you need to keep hounding them. Groundspeak even apologized....

Seriously, I think publicly posting this only increases the likelihood of further issues. My advice would have been to accept the result and share it on a more limited basis.

No one likes having an adversary gloat.

Hmmmm?

Probably, I should have chastised you in private, but this is more fun! :D

Hmmmm?

Maybe you were right all along!:eek:

Opalsns
03-05-2010, 03:27 PM
Good For You !!!
I'm Pleased to hear this
and Groundspeak appologized, Very cool!!!

Opalsns

CARoperPhotography
03-05-2010, 10:02 PM
Chastise me in private? HA! You are right, it is more fun in public.....

If there are further issues, then so be it. Heck, there were bound to be the possibility of further issues due to me publicly posting the story in the first place.

I thought by letting you all know the outcome of it all, you may have hope for any issues that may come up. Frankly, if a cache follows Groundspeak's placement guidelines as mine did, there should be no issues period. I have had enough issues with people going behind my back privately to try to screw me over. I am a fully "transparent" Geocacher, to utitlize a term used by our President.... I'd rather do things publicly when it comes to this sport than privately so as to protect myself. When everyone knows, there is no "secrecy" for anyone to hide behind. And mind you, there have been issues recently which I have gone about in private that none of you know about, but I will be happy to post here in the coming weeks if there is no solution to the situation!