My first post to Geocaching Maine....I noticed the latest comment by repteotab43 (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/profile/?guid=51d541db-eb79-4148-a249-4b2ddaf43f07) on Maines oldest cache at The Fort Williams Cache (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=deced6dc-e2a2-4c54-beec-e002a350f42c) and found it very disturbing having just recently visited this cache to leave a TB and seeing the many prior log books from the many years this cache has been in place. After reading the entry I looked at this individuals other entries and found another disturbing entry for Hanging Above the Stones (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=94fbbbeb-1c25-432e-8a5b-71ab3a19617d) I'm not sure if this is just a bad joke or actually has happened but thought maybe fellow cachers should be aware that this cacher is not on the up and up and am wondering what could be done if anything to protect our caches?

Looks terrible. I hope it isn't the case. It would be too bad to see everyone flock to gc.com to make their caches Premium Member only caches.

I hope this is this persons idea of a sick joke.....

Maybe someone who is down in that area and who has already found the caches will duck out and check them.

I'll stop by Fort Williams this afternoon to check on it.

I'll stop by Fort Williams this afternoon to check on it.

Glad someone is close enough for a quick run by.

The Fort Williams cache has been found since, so at least claims that is was taken may be untrue.

Hopefully this person just has an odd sense of humor.

. . . or maybe they didn't realize it wasn't an actual treasure hunt and they're supposed to leave the cache in place and were informed of the "rules" of the game and returned the cache.

With only three finds I think the whole thing is Newb related.

With only three finds I think the whole thing is Newb related.

And the "cacher" mentions being with "his father", so I also think youth is involved... :(:(

Non of those links worked for me. The Fort Williams Cache (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=deced6dc-e2a2-4c54-beec-e002a350f42c) GC128.

I have been afraid of this as the media has done several stories on our sport of late and that is bound to attract unsavory characters.

I have been afraid of this as the media has done several stories on our sport of late and that is bound to attract unsavory characters.

This is not the first time I've heard of something like this happening. Or of someone purposely vandalizing a cache. I'll play the odds and give people in this game/sport the benefit of the doubt. I refuse to have my good time or my good nature spoiled by some malcontent, whom seem to be few and far between (thankfully).

Hopefully kayakerinme will shed some light on the situation. It does happen - sad but true - but NativeMainer seems to have what I like as an idea.

Ekidokai has a good point which I have considered even when I was interviewed the first time back in 2003.

The more exposure the sport gets, the more accessible it is to the small percentage who would have more fun vandalizing than caching. More diverse members theoretically creates a larger quantity of more unique caches but it also gets the sport noticed and an easier target.

I don't believe that is the intent of this new cacher, but one could guess he has done little or no research on the sport before heading out.

The Fort Williams Cache is in fine shape - one rusty ammo can just where it ought to be, and no signature from that individual. :eek:

The Fort Williams Cache is in fine shape - one rusty ammo can just where it ought to be, and no signature from that individual. :eek:

Well, that could be a newbie mistake as well.... Would be interesting to check out the other caches. Is there a rock beside it he could have lifted up? I forget...

I sent the little punk a PM via his geoname. I would encourage others to do so as well.

Has anyone reported him to G.C. com? Maybe they should be aware of what he/she has posted in the online logs and has not signed the caches log book. The cahce owners might want to delete those logs also.

Sticky wickets for sure in many areas. I say this............

THANK YOU Kayakerinme for checking on this one and assuring it is in place and in tact.!

MY Thoughts - Don't bother the gruel - as to do so may activate him to REALLY do something.........if he can find the container. JMHO

I sent the little punk a PM via his geoname. I would encourage others to do so as well.

Assuming if you are calling him a punk your message was less than friendly, where is the good that can come from this? If the person does have ill-content, he is most likely is looking for attention, so you're giving him what he wants. If the person is just making some newbie mistakes or is just not mature enough to understand what he is saying, 100 emails bashing him for his actions is not the best welcome!

If your message was friendly, then it might be a good thing, provided he is just making newbie mistakes.

It seems to me the best approach in these situations is to first be sure who we are dealing with. If it is a vandal, by all means find a quiet way to identify him and confront him or his parents. If it turns out he is making honest mistakes the let's welcome him and educate him.

We had someone a few years back vandalizing caches. Within a few days he was exposed, we had his address, phone number, web site, pictures. He was soon banned and didn't have a problem since.

My message was that his logs were not funny and to suggest that he'd taken caches away was not the way the game was played. I also suggested that if he was caching with his dad as he indicated, that he should ask his father about such things.

I didn't receive a response but hope he's just a newbie or a very young man that doesn't get it. I can't hazard a guess if this will help or not or if he even knows how to open the message, but it can't hurt.

I also agree with the suggestion that the log be deleted. I would like to think his father would intervene and stop this from happening again, but who knows.

I would like to think his father would intervene and stop this from happening again, but who knows.


We live in hope.

Maybe I just like in a Pollyanna world where everything is sunshine, rainbows and ponies frolicking in fields of candy canes with gum drop fences . . . but in reading the logs my first thought was not that someone was messing with the caches, but rather that an inexperienced (and young) cacher might not have read all the "rules" of the game and thought you were supposed to bring home the cache as if it was actual treasure . . . moreover I would not put a lot of stock in the fact that he didn't sign the log since a person who wouldn't know the rules of the game might not realize he/she is supposed to sign the physical log.

If someone wanted to really mess with a cache there is a lot more they could do than simply go on-line and write some logs about taking the cache home . . . leaving bodily fluids/deposits behind in the cache, destroying the cache, moving the cache, leaving profanity-laden logs . . . all these are far more likely to occur with someone bent on messing with a cache.

And if someone was intent only on "messing" with a cache with their on-line log I think they could come up with something a lot more provocative than what they wrote . . .

Again, maybe I'm just a Pollyanna, but I'm wondering if this was a newbie who brought the cache home and then was told or learned that the cache was supposed to stay in place and it was returned. . . .

As for the media stories creating more problems . . .

Guess I'm not that paranoid or worried . . . sure there is a possibility that someone who is so bored with their life will rush out and buy a $100+ GPSr and go tromping in the woods just for the sole purpose of messing with caches after they see a story on TV . . . but I'm thinking that the type of folks who would do so are not typically the type of folks to watch the local news or read a newspaper (yeah, I'm biased here -- call it experience based bias).

Nah . . . publicity is good in my opinion . . . far more good is done with publicity since it may get more people into the sport . . . and if nothing else it lets folks know why that strange guy is poking around that guardrail down the road from their home.

Again, maybe I'm just not paranoid enough . . . then again I also don't worry too much about being murdered or having my home broke into . . . I play the odds . . . odds are I will not be shot . . . odds are my home will not be broken into . . . and odds are that even with more publicity the chances of the added publicity resulting in more vandalized caches is pretty slim.

I agree with the fact that as more people learn about caching, there will be a select few who find ways to disrespect the game. However, I also believe that it is a small percentage. Most people will either like the game, or not care either way.

Assuming if you are calling him a punk your message was less than friendly, where is the good that can come from this? If the person does have ill-content, he is most likely is looking for attention, so you're giving him what he wants. If the person is just making some newbie mistakes or is just not mature enough to understand what he is saying, 100 emails bashing him for his actions is not the best welcome!

If your message was friendly, then it might be a good thing, provided he is just making newbie mistakes.

It seems to me the best approach in these situations is to first be sure who we are dealing with. If it is a vandal, by all means find a quiet way to identify him and confront him or his parents. If it turns out he is making honest mistakes the let's welcome him and educate him.

We had someone a few years back vandalizing caches. Within a few days he was exposed, we had his address, phone number, web site, pictures. He was soon banned and didn't have a problem since.

As much as I hate to say it I agree with Brdad. To a point.

An absolute ignoring of this person is the only action that will work. Newbie or not. I know starting out on many of my adventures I had no idea what I was doing. I just stumbled along. Making mistakes as I went. If someone had jumped on me for some minor infraction of some unwritten rule or something of that nature there would be trouble of epic proportions. Think Stud Mill in reverse. Think taking people out on a regular basis to show them geocaching in reverse. It wouldn't have been the first time. Luckily I use my powers for good now not evil.

On the other hand if it is a newbie, Maybe a friendly come on out with me and I can help you with some caching secrets. I do that because I would have loved that when I started out. We just need to wait and see what is going on with him.

As for the media stories creating more problems . . .

Guess I'm not that paranoid or worried . . . sure there is a possibility that someone who is so bored with their life will rush out and buy a $100+ GPSr and go tromping in the woods just for the sole purpose of messing with caches after they see a story on TV . . . but I'm thinking that the type of folks who would do so are not typically the type of folks to watch the local news or read a newspaper (yeah, I'm biased here -- call it experience based bias).

Nah . . . publicity is good in my opinion . . . far more good is done with publicity since it may get more people into the sport . . . and if nothing else it lets folks know why that strange guy is poking around that guardrail down the road from their home.

Again, maybe I'm just not paranoid enough . . . then again I also don't worry too much about being murdered or having my home broke into . . . I play the odds . . . odds are I will not be shot . . . odds are my home will not be broken into . . . and odds are that even with more publicity the chances of the added publicity resulting in more vandalized caches is pretty slim.

Kids noadays have more money than brains and are just looking for trouble to make.

Kids noadays have more money than brains and are just looking for trouble to make.

I dunno about this . . . in my line of work I see a number of kids and I would say the majority of them have far more important things to do than make trouble . . . like wondering if Sue wants to go out with them . . . or picking up the newest Warcraft game . . . or hooking up with their good friend Joe to hang out at the State Fair.

As much as I hate to say it I agree with Brdad. To a point.

An absolute ignoring of this person is the only action that will work. Newbie or not. I know starting out on many of my adventures I had no idea what I was doing. I just stumbled along. Making mistakes as I went. If someone had jumped on me for some minor infraction of some unwritten rule or something of that nature there would be trouble of epic proportions. Think Stud Mill in reverse. Think taking people out on a regular basis to show them geocaching in reverse. It wouldn't have been the first time. Luckily I use my powers for good now not evil.

On the other hand if it is a newbie, Maybe a friendly come on out with me and I can help you with some caching secrets. I do that because I would have loved that when I started out. We just need to wait and see what is going on with him.

Going to disagree on this . . . sometimes a friendly, gentle nudge worded the right way works wonders . . . now a note written in harsh, condemning tones I would agree with you . . . a person could get quite irate and may either leave the game for good or be a bit malicious.

I would respectfully suggest however that taking a cache home would not be a "minor" issue and in fact the rules as to how to geocache (i.e. not taking the cache home with you) are written and pretty clear.

I also agree that having someone step up to offer to take this guy out (uh, not take him out that way) . . . and go caching . . . could be beneficial.

We live in hope.

And all this time I thought we lived in Belgrade.

Go figure.

Just down the street.

Assuming if you are calling him a punk your message was less than friendly, where is the good that can come from this? If the person does have ill-content, he is most likely is looking for attention, so you're giving him what he wants. If the person is just making some newbie mistakes or is just not mature enough to understand what he is saying, 100 emails bashing him for his actions is not the best welcome!

If your message was friendly, then it might be a good thing, provided he is just making newbie mistakes.

It seems to me the best approach in these situations is to first be sure who we are dealing with. If it is a vandal, by all means find a quiet way to identify him and confront him or his parents. If it turns out he is making honest mistakes the let's welcome him and educate him.

We had someone a few years back vandalizing caches. Within a few days he was exposed, we had his address, phone number, web site, pictures. He was soon banned and didn't have a problem since.

Brdad, are you going to scold Dubord207 for calling this cacher a punk in your public forum? Apparently as usual, rules apply differently do different cachers and different subjects. Thank you for proving your double standard, in a separate thread from the one concerning Groundspeak Banning cachers!

dubord207, I scold thee.

Yikes, does this mean I have to take a "time out?" Hey, if I'm going to receive critical comments for taking somebody to task for for what I consider a serious breach of the very basic rules of our game, so be it. brdad's comments are fine. Like me, he occassionally finds himself acting as the "geo-police." There are lots of folks on this site that are outspoken and that includes me.

Checked to see if the "offender" (sounds better then punk) has cached again or even visited geo.com and he has not so he may not have seen my comment. My guess is that he's gone from the game and we'll never hear from again.

Yikes, does this mean I have to take a "time out?"

In the corner, five minutes.:D

In the corner, five minutes.:D

and NO martini's!

No Martini's? That's the final straw. I want to be banned from the site!:D








and NO martini's!

No Martini's? That's the final straw. I want to be banned from the site!:D

Well all you have to do is ask!

http://www.searchcowboys.com/images/upload/banned.jpg

That's not my picture, that's my half-brother, Numbnuts!




Well all you have to do is ask!

http://www.searchcowboys.com/images/upload/banned.jpg

Kids noadays have more money than brains and are just looking for trouble to make.

I couldn't let this comment roll by without saying something, even though it's "off topic".

Bologna. Bullsh*t. Evidently Mike you don't know very many kids "noadays". Sure, there are a few who look for trouble, but in reality it's NO different than it's always been. I'm a mom of four--12, 17, 19, and 20. My 20 year old daughter is currently at Defense Information School for the US Marine Corp. My 19 year old son is a full time student at UMPI, with a full-time job, AND a member of the Maine Army Nat'l Guard. My 17 year old will be a senior in high school this year, and has spent her summer working at Moosehorn--and working damn hard-- for the Youth Conservation Corps. My 12 year old plays every sport going and goes out "fishing" on a boat out of Eastport a few times a week-- baiting, hauling traps, banding lobster. If you've ever worked on a boat you know it's not easy and can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Interestingly enough, these kids aren't exceptions, they're the norm. It's simply that they don't get the press that the few troubled ones do. ;)

I couldn't let this comment roll by without saying something, even though it's "off topic".

Bologna. Bullsh*t. Evidently Mike you don't know very many kids "noadays". Sure, there are a few who look for trouble, but in reality it's NO different than it's always been. I'm a mom of four--12, 17, 19, and 20. My 20 year old daughter is currently at Defense Information School for the US Marine Corp. My 19 year old son is a full time student at UMPI, with a full-time job, AND a member of the Maine Army Nat'l Guard. My 17 year old will be a senior in high school this year, and has spent her summer working at Moosehorn--and working damn hard-- for the Youth Conservation Corps. My 12 year old plays every sport going and goes out "fishing" on a boat out of Eastport a few times a week-- baiting, hauling traps, banding lobster. If you've ever worked on a boat you know it's not easy and can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Interestingly enough, these kids aren't exceptions, they're the norm. It's simply that they don't get the press that the few troubled ones do. ;)

Sounds like you have some great kids, the result (I feel) of having some great parents. We're very proud of the accomplishments our 2 boys (aged 29 and 30) as well.

But I would bet that the percentage of "failure" in our youth today is a lot higher than 20-30 years ago.

:D:D

It is getting off-topic (but not the first time for this thread), but I am not sure the percentages are much higher. The numbers are higher and the accessibility of information for thugs of any age is much higher. Technology is great, but it unfortunately works for both sides.

It is getting off-topic (but not the first time for this thread)

Actually, not too far off topic, since a great part of this thread is about the behavior of kids (or at least one in particular...) :D:D

I couldn't let this comment roll by without saying something, even though it's "off topic".

Bologna. Bullsh*t. Evidently Mike you don't know very many kids "noadays". Sure, there are a few who look for trouble, but in reality it's NO different than it's always been. I'm a mom of four--12, 17, 19, and 20. My 20 year old daughter is currently at Defense Information School for the US Marine Corp. My 19 year old son is a full time student at UMPI, with a full-time job, AND a member of the Maine Army Nat'l Guard. My 17 year old will be a senior in high school this year, and has spent her summer working at Moosehorn--and working damn hard-- for the Youth Conservation Corps. My 12 year old plays every sport going and goes out "fishing" on a boat out of Eastport a few times a week-- baiting, hauling traps, banding lobster. If you've ever worked on a boat you know it's not easy and can be dangerous if you don't know what you're doing. Interestingly enough, these kids aren't exceptions, they're the norm. It's simply that they don't get the press that the few troubled ones do. ;)

;)Yea Mary!:D

The cacher/newbie with the Fort Williams cache sent me a PM and now understands the error of his ways, although he says his dad didn't see a problem.

His log has been edited and he sounds to me like he won't pull this crap again.

So, brdad, want to scold me again?

The cacher/newbie with the Fort Williams cache sent me a PM and now understands the error of his ways, although he says his dad didn't see a problem.

His log has been edited and he sounds to me like he won't pull this crap again.

So, brdad, want to scold me again?

Of course, you know I live for scolding! :p

Glad it worked out and it is just a mistake. Despite my interpreted tone of your post, your note must have just been just nice enough. Either that, or you mentioned Joe Bornstein! ;););)

Good work.

The cacher/newbie with the Fort Williams cache sent me a PM and now understands the error of his ways, although he says his dad didn't see a problem.

His log has been edited and he sounds to me like he won't pull this crap again.

So, brdad, want to scold me again?

Your results are appreciated Honorable Dubord! As for Dad not seeing a problem - so be parents today............but not me..........I just can't condone this stuff...............

Hello, did you see me passing you on the sidewalk with your cell phone glued to you ear??? Hello, did you see that truck which almost hit your butt? (So sad the loss of life recently near one of my cache sites - a child on a bike) Dad doesn't see a problem - of course not - no reprecussions.

Hello - there is a World, life, environment, people and things going on around you that is out there. If folks would de-connect from the I-Pod and Cell-Phone, they might connect with a real World which is living and breathing around them! Real people, real voices, real encounters and perhaps a chance to interact face to face. Put all this into the mix of consideration for Geocaching and you would scare a lot ot them away.

Put these items into the goals a parent emparts to their child and you have empowered children with a life skiil. Communication with community and a chance to feel a part. JMHO

Cache on - cache happy!

PS - nice event today - many thanks!

I did follow up with the young man yesterday with a note offering some "positive reinforcement" as they say.

As for today's kids, I'm with those that feel there is a dramatic difference in modern attitudes, some good, a lot bad and a family "disconnect" in many instances. It doesn't take a sociologist to see this. How many of the folks on this site didn't have a job during summer months while in high school? Very few I guess but what about today's kids? Just one simple example.

I'm glad I grew up when I did and had parents that took the time to point me in right direction (especially when I preferred the wrong direction most of the time!):)

I did follow up with the young man yesterday with a note offering some "positive reinforcement" as they say.

As for today's kids, I'm with those that feel there is a dramatic difference in modern attitudes, some good, a lot bad and a family "disconnect" in many instances. It doesn't take a sociologist to see this. How many of the folks on this site didn't have a job during summer months while in high school? Very few I guess but what about today's kids? Just one simple example.

I'm glad I grew up when I did and had parents that took the time to point me in right direction (especially when I preferred the wrong direction most of the time!):)


I agree! I have been trying hard to help my 14 year old find a summer job. I called the blueberry companies and was told that they no longer hire kids to rake because they did not show up and those that did were not willing to workhttp://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon8.gif. Even the farmers have stooped hiring teens to help with hay. I find it sad that when I was a kid I had to turn work down because I had to much offered to me and today I can not find any for my sonhttp://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/images/icons/icon9.gif

When I was a teen I made up flyers saying I would do anything from mow lawn to babysit to weed gardens or any other chore you could think of. I got alot of work that summer and other summers for my effort. Before we moved in to help care for my mom she couldnt even find an area teen willing to mow her lawn much less any other jobs around here.

Reminds me of a couple of summertime jobs I had which I hated. One was I picked cucumbers for a company who made them into pickles so they couldn't be any larger than about 3 inches long. Took me over 6 hours to pick 1 bushel and made a total of 50 cents for all that work...LOL. Also picked eggs 1 time at my friends farm and made a total of a dollar for about 4 or 5 hours work. That wasn't too bad but you had to get by that horrible ammonia smell and watch out for all the rats!!!! The Good Ole Days....LOL

Well, it's been said that we here in Washington County are "behind the times"--even hubby says the move up here from southern Maine was a step back in time! But, this time it would appear that it's a good thing for our kids. Most teens I know have jobs, and I'm in a position to be in touch with the teens in our area. One young man in particular I know started mowing lawns at the age of 12--turned it into quite a business. He bought his first truck with cash, and had quite a savings account going, in the thousands of dollars. He sold his business last summer when he graduated from high school. There are very few barrens around here that still rake, most farmers have turned to mechanical harvesting for blueberries. Kids here aren't looking for raking jobs because they've usually had their "summer job", or in most cases have continued their part-time school year job into the summer, and raking isn't something they can count on now. Most parents I know push their kids, without doing things for them. Maybe that's the difference, I don't know. I don't see what you are seeing. I guess maybe we're just a little more old-fashioned here, and that works for us.

There is a world of difference being "downeast" as opposed to more citified areas....the hubby is from there and we go there as often as possible to visit family still there. The kids are not at all like what we see here in central maine. Count your blessings that at least this time being "behind the times" is a wonderful thing.

I'm not sure is all the kids fault either. I've had kids as well as grown ups approach me and ask to mow the lawn or other chores. But who would dare hire just anyone when the liability system is the way it is? When I was a kid if I got hurt working for someone else I went home and my parents fixed me up or took me to the ER (Must have gotten rusty nails in my feet ten times from working around barns!). Now for fear of being sued I'm more likely to do it myself or hire a professional unless I really know and trust the family of the kid I'm hiring.

I have just read ALL the logs on this posting...........So what did the log on the Fort Williams Cache say anyway?! It's been edited!
Good Gawd; What on earth could a poor defenceless little child have said to incur such wrath? ! And from such respected icons of the geocaching community!

I have just read ALL the logs on this posting...........So what did the log on the Fort Williams Cache say anyway?! It's been edited!
Good Gawd; What on earth could a poor defenceless little child have said to incur such wrath? ! And from such respected icons of the geocaching community!

Anything a child says is cause for wrath.

I have just read ALL the logs on this posting...........So what did the log on the Fort Williams Cache say anyway?! It's been edited!
Good Gawd; What on earth could a poor defenceless little child have said to incur such wrath? ! And from such respected icons of the geocaching community!

He said he couldn't open it, so he took it home and opened it with a screwdriver. What a terrible thing!

He said he couldn't open it, so he took it home and opened it with a screwdriver. What a terrible thing!

Hmmmm, maybe that's a good idea. I always have trouble opening rusted ammo cans...:eek:

The screwdriver was the other cache he logged. The Fort Williams one he just said he took home and threw out all the trash in it.

Pat, you need to stay current. This cacher now has his wits back and I've started adoption proceedings so he'll soon be living here. We do what we have to do!:D Turns out he was the secret love child of Olympia and Paul Lepage! He can't decide if he's filthy rich or living in a storage trailer behind Marden's in Waterville. All the caches he's placed so far smell like they were in a fire!

Pat, you need to stay current. This cacher now has his wits back and I've started adoption proceedings so he'll soon be living here. We do what we have to do!:D Turns out he was the secret love child of Olympia and Paul Lepage! He can't decide if he's filthy rich or living in a storage trailer behind Marden's in Waterville. All the caches he's placed so far smell like they were in a fire!


Olympia and Paul? brrrrrr. Now to get back on a different topic.... Teens. That's my life now. I work full time as an officer in a high school and get all of my departments juvenile cases plopped on my desk during the summer. The overall verdict? They are awesome. As for the 20% to 30%, Trust me, it's not that high. My school has roughly 820 kids (4 years ago we were over 900). I deal with the same 30 kids over and over. Heck, there are kids that are so good that I don't even know their names until graduation. The tech aspect is very true, they would rather text than talk, their lives are devoted to the internet, and this generation definetely expects a reward for everything (this comes from years of being told that 5th place is as good as 1st as not to hurt anyone's feelings). But they are smart, witty, motivated and constantly doing bigger and better things. Are the different? Oh yes. But let me ask you guys. If you were a WWII vet, worked hard and raised a kid born around 1950 who was living like a hippy, tuning in, turning on and dropping out and listening to (gasp!) the Beatles or the Stones, what would you think of that whole generation? I'm not convinced that Gen "Y" kids are much worse that the Baby Boomer Generation was at their age. I am convinced that the Boomers produced much, much, much better music. It must have been the mushrooms. Of course this comes from a "Gen X'er" and we didn't get the benefit of the Beatles or of cool cell phones. We were stuck with big hair and a Flock of Seagulls. I think we got ripped off. :D:D:D

Olympia and Paul? brrrrrr. Now to get back on a different topic.... Teens. That's my life now. I work full time as an officer in a high school and get all of my departments juvenile cases plopped on my desk during the summer. The overall verdict? They are awesome. As for the 20% to 30%, Trust me, it's not that high. My school has roughly 820 kids (4 years ago we were over 900). I deal with the same 30 kids over and over. Heck, there are kids that are so good that I don't even know their names until graduation. The tech aspect is very true, they would rather text than talk, their lives are devoted to the internet, and this generation definetely expects a reward for everything (this comes from years of being told that 5th place is as good as 1st as not to hurt anyone's feelings). But they are smart, witty, motivated and constantly doing bigger and better things. Are the different? Oh yes. But let me ask you guys. If you were a WWII vet, worked hard and raised a kid born around 1950 who was living like a hippy, tuning in, turning on and dropping out and listening to (gasp!) the Beatles or the Stones, what would you think of that whole generation? I'm not convinced that Gen "Y" kids are much worse that the Baby Boomer Generation was at their age. I am convinced that the Boomers produced much, much, much better music. It must have been the mushrooms. Of course this comes from a "Gen X'er" and we didn't get the benefit of the Beatles or of cool cell phones. We were stuck with big hair and a Flock of Seagulls. I think we got ripped off. :D:D:D

You wrote what I was thinking . . . every generation can say that kids these days aren't like they were when they were kids and every generation tends to think back and think they had it much harder, were better, more motivated, etc.

As I said earlier . . . the kids I meet in school are generally pretty decent, motivated kids . . . in some ways I think they're better then the kids of my generation as they seem more acceptable and tolerant of folks who are different from them.

Well said.

You wrote what I was thinking . . . every generation can say that kids these days aren't like they were when they were kids and every generation tends to think back and think they had it much harder, were better, more motivated, etc.

As I said earlier . . . the kids I meet in school are generally pretty decent, motivated kids . . . in some ways I think they're better then the kids of my generation as they seem more acceptable and tolerant of folks who are different from them.

Well said.

....because you're different.

Actually, I see lots of kids where I work. Some are very well behaved. Others, not so much. It's a pleasure to work with a parent who at least pays attention to what their child is doing. Some parents don't even watch their kids when they are right under foot and getting into things that might be harmful to the child. It's NOT the kid's fault.