View Full Version : frustrating...



TeamHorwich
08-08-2010, 07:03 AM
I have recently had someone log about 6 of my caches and write, "too many muggles about to sign the log - TFTC." I noticed they have done this on others caches as well. They have "found" more than 300, but not hidden any. They have been caching since 2005 (from Mass.) Now, I usually don't like to delete logs, but isn't it an essential part of the game to ACTUALLY SIGN THE LOG?!? (OK, I know, people can play the way they want to, but if you are not going to sign the log...don't tell me in your online log!):confused:

brdad
08-08-2010, 07:13 AM
Agreed. It states right in the guidelines the logbook is supposed to be signed and it's the cache owner's responsibility to validate the logs.

I would risk a muggle seeing me log the the cache than claim the find without signing it!

This is where the old virtuals were great for urban caches.

Send an email explaining (nicely) it's part of caching and he either needs to risk being seen or come back when it's not busy, but he's supposed to sign the log.

JustKev
08-08-2010, 07:29 AM
We usually "Write a Note" on the cache log saying we were there but didn't sign the log and that we'll go back to get it later. If we log it at all under those circumstances. We only log caches as a find if we can sign the physical log. We both feel that it's absolutely necessary to sign the log for an FTF.

dubord207
08-08-2010, 08:20 AM
On very rare occassions that I can count on one hand, I have not signed a log. One was a snowshoe hike of a mile, found the cache but the entire thing was frozen in ice in the crotch of a tree and I would have destroyed the cache if I'd take my ski pole to it. I know some would take the dogmatic route and say that's not a find, but I did find it. As is commonly noted, the choice is personal.

But to get back to Jim's post, I think brdad's suggestion to send a PM is fair but the frequency of this cacher's action would warrant a delete in my book.

I'm grappling with a new cacher that has 7 cache finds and 7 ":)" as logs. I sent the cacher a note and suggested a bit more creativity to recognize the efforts of cachers that place caches for others to enjoy and received a terse note back that I shouldn't be "critical" of new caches. I have yet to delete a log on any of my caches, but I've come close a few times.

brdad
08-08-2010, 10:35 AM
I wonder in the case of only logging a smiley - would people rather not have a finder not log online at all or just log the smiley? I have a friend that very rarely logs online. I'm not necessarily happy with short logs on my caches either, but I think I'd rather know the person was there. Of course, I'm not against promoting the concept of writing of a decent log, either!

And that gets me wondering in the case of logging but not signing - perhaps this person has very little interest in the container aspect of caching and instead does it solely for the location aspect, and figures not logging is no big deal. And that does not make it right, there are standard practices that have been in effect since caching started, and signing the log is part of that - but it is just a game.

lexmano
08-08-2010, 11:02 AM
Send an email explaining (nicely) it's part of caching and he either needs to risk being seen or come back when it's not busy, but he's supposed to sign the log.


Maybe you could ask Chadd to help you write the nice note!!:eek:

lions6281
08-08-2010, 03:40 PM
I’m new and part of the fun for us is to sneak the cache. My wife does a very good imitation of James Bond she’s got them before, while I was watching and I didn’t see her get it. As far as writing in the on line cache I think, even though it is a lot of work for the owner, a short comment or TFTC is sufficient.

kayaking loon
08-08-2010, 03:40 PM
And what about when you find nanos (I've found two lately) where the log was damp and full?? And apparently had been full for some time.... I did manage to get an "L" on one (over someone else's log and a "KL" on another but it would be hard to find either.

JustPJ66
08-08-2010, 04:52 PM
I like to know when someone does and doesnt find the cache personally.....if they dont find it that tells me something may be amiss....so many people we have run into since we started caching dont log DNF's....if they only looked at it as a service to the cache owner rather than a personal defeat. That way the cache owner could know if one person didnt find the cache or if 10 people went and couldnt find it....makes a difference to a good cache owner...maybe the cache is missing or perhaps it needs to have the difficulty level bumped up a bit or maybe someone replaced it in the wrong spot.....and I just love a nice log to read on one of our caches...we have gotten some really great ones....even some with a guilt trip attached in the case of the logs my brother leaves..hehe but it is nice to see even the TFTC knowing that someone found and enjoyed it......(but more would be more pleasant to read) hehe

Fins_Up
08-08-2010, 06:45 PM
I only had one cache that I didn't sign and logged as found because it was frozen in place under a tree where the ground heaved up and I couldn't get it out. I went back later and signed it though. It drove me crazy until I could sign it. If there are muggles around and I can't sign the log then I don't log it until I can.

Ekidokai
08-09-2010, 05:39 AM
I too think that I have only not signed one log because it was frozen in the ground and any attempt beyond the obvious pulling and tugging would have destroyed the ceramic figurine that the log was in.

However you may not be so mad as I am at some cachers from out of state. They logged two caches and the next day the caches went missing. These out of state cachers logged that there were a lot of muggles around. I felt like telling them not to come around caching if they can't be more careful.

I know we have to deal with all types, but it may be long past the time to start thinning the heard when you read logs like I didn't even look for the cache because I saw it was disabled but I was there and I'm going to claim it as a find.

Time to thin the heard, really.

brdad
08-09-2010, 07:26 AM
This is where the whole "let everyone play the way they want to play" theory goes right down the tubes. There is no way everyone will ever be happy.

Still before we react to some of these situations we need to assess just what the impact is on the game. I've been known to speak up on many topics, but I try to reserve my major rants for issues which I feel are detrimental to the sport. I may not always be right in my thinking, but I do try and rationalize my actions first.

To me, someone not logging a cache will not result in the end of caching. It's not the way it was intended, but it's not the end of the world. A nice note and a decent percentage of those will understand and improve. Five nasty notes and that person will react and do something to PO other cachers and talk the game and other cachers down.

It's just a game. As soon as we forget that we end up with people deleting each others logs without a valid reason, removal of caches, and other vandalism and unneeded behavior.

JustKev
08-09-2010, 08:58 AM
I agree, Dave. There's a fine line there that would be easy to cross for some people in today's world. There seems to be a more prevalent feeling that if you make me mad it's okay for me to seek revenge in any manner I see fit. I would try very hard to weigh the odds that the person in question would or would not be a spiteful person before I deleted a log. I'd rather have a log online and none in the paper log and still have a viable cache. The same goes for putting a log online that is critical of a hide. JustPJ and I logged one a while back that we really had to stew over for a bit before logging. We ended up getting good feedback from the CO on that one but it could have gone either way. We tried to not sound critical of the CO. We were concerned that cachers with children might not want to take their kids to this particular cache because of the trash around the area.

I'd have to delete a log that was rude or had obscenities in it, I think. That kind of thing does not belong in a game where kids might find it.

firefighterjake
08-09-2010, 10:02 AM
Random Thoughts:

Sign the log = earn a smiley: I am of the "sign the log to claim the find" line of thinking . . . most of the time. If the log is wet, I'll resort to dropping in my own log on paper or birch bark. If there are too many people, I'll wait them out -- or come back another day. If I can't open the container I'll write on the outside (on duct taped pill bottles or mint tins for example.)

I have also been known to send out e-mails to cacher hiders to ask them to please return to physically sign the log when they have said they did not sign the log . . . and while polite . . . I let them know that I can and will delete their names unless there is some compelling reason for them not to have signed the log. And yes . . . while I don't make it a habit, I have and continue to cross check signed entries on line and in the physical log.

That said . . . I can't think of a single time I have deleted an on-line log entry . . . after swapping e-mails I often find myself agreeing with the cacher's reasoning or to be honest I figure it was an honest mistake or sometimes I just figure it's only a game and not worth losing sleep over.


. . . But there are times when even I fail to follow my own rules: Perhaps this past weekend was such a time. For a good laugh check out the Old Beaver Dam (in Washburn) . . . be sure to look at Hollora's pics of Hiram who went wading in waist deep water for a cache. He found it, but the cache was chewed up, leaky and the cacher owner hasn't been involved in the game for more than a year. We claimed the find, but not only didn't drop in a new log, but removed the entire cache.

I honestly wouldn't have any issue if I was at the point where someone found one of my caches and it was either in such a rough shape or to the point where it would be damaged if they attempted to pry it open . . . and the person was able to prove to me with pics or a clear description to indicate that they truly had found my cache.


Inappropriate log entries: I have asked some folks to edit their own log entries . . . but I would be hesitant to delete the entire log entry . . . in some cases I have edited the log entry and informed the person that I had done so . . . and I explain the reasoning . . . but these are far and few between. I can't even think of the last time I did so.

Now as for the :) entries and the TFTC entries and the Number X of Y caches generic postings . . . I hate them . . . and I think it's laziness on the cachers part to record such entries as it cheapens the hide and shows that the person really is just looking at numbers . . . but I would not delete the entry.

Ekidokai
08-09-2010, 03:48 PM
You can play the game the way you want to until your actions impact my game play and cause harm to me or the game.

When the police get involved when a cache is placed without permission. When an organization starts picking up caches on publicly owner property or the land they control and a town starts talking about banning caching completely, or caches start disappearing because of negligent actions, this impacts me and the game in a obvious legal and negative manner.

We should not stand for it.

Like I say all the time, if I am doing something wrong or that irritates you, tell me. If you tell someone in a strong and harsh manner they get the hint. Tell me in a squishy feel good politically correct way and your going to get a stupid response and no corrective action on my part.

If we don't take action now and risk offending a few problem cases we are going to loose this sport, and I have put too much time and effort into this to let it slip through my fingers for fear of hurting someones feelings that will most likely never be a productive participating member.

Now there is a difference in placing a cache with coordinates that are a few feet off, not posting FTF right away, or some of the other petty things and causing a cache and trackables that people have put a ton of time and effort into to be stolen because of your blatant disregard and negligent actions, causing endangerment and or harm because you are ignorant of the game.

Take no action or way to little, and this will ll be a bad memory.

If you can't figure it out I'm here to help. Just ask.

dubord207
08-09-2010, 04:06 PM
" Dan, you don't have to be the 'geocaching police!" Like others that have chimed in here, there's a lot of inconsiderate things that one can do while geocaching and let's face it, there are folks that just don't play nice. A couple of times I have been tempted to delete logs but have yet to do so. When is it appropriate to delete a log? I'm not real sure but I've found that by sending PM's to cachers with bad attitudes that most can be turned around. I continue to have a strong disdain for serial logging but understand that some cachers just don't know how to type, but I think a lot are just counting their own numbers and are too lazy to put a little thought to their logs.

So I bite my tongue a lot and put sincere effort into maintaining my caches and putting out positive logs.

Life's too short to get overly wound up about our game.

Ekidokai
08-09-2010, 05:05 PM
I hang around with the wrong crowd. I know a lot of people that are illiterate and afraid of computers. That's not what makes them bad people though.

I see my share of cereal loggers. Petty interpretations of what people think should be logged in their caches. If the person has no imagination or ability to appreciate their surrounds then a cereal log is all you can expect.

A wise man once said "you can't fix stupid." But a wiser man has said "accidents happen"

TeamHorwich
08-09-2010, 06:22 PM
"cereal" - like Cheerios and Lucky Charms or "Serial" - as in killer?!?

Fins_Up
08-09-2010, 09:09 PM
If I had to pick one cereal and never have another kind it would be Golden Grahams.

firefighterjake
08-09-2010, 09:40 PM
I like strawberry bunches of oats.

Waterski
08-09-2010, 09:43 PM
Save the Frosty Flakes for me. Maybe its time to do a cereal series on all roads with the word milk in them. :-) They could be placed in milk bottles and signed with great thoughts.

Gob-ler
08-09-2010, 09:51 PM
good old oatmeal with some almond slivers and some Cinnamon for me please.

CARoperPhotography
08-10-2010, 08:59 PM
Maybe you could ask Chadd to help you write the nice note!!:eek:

Sure! I am sure I could get a response out of the charlatan!

fins2right
08-15-2010, 01:18 PM
I only have about 25 or so caches out and get about 5 emails a day for finds. The majority are "found with geojohndoe, tftc" Some are just "tftc" and others have a great story involved. To be honest, I didn't realize how many cache owners want a story, and for the first year or so I simply just logged the cache. I now make an effort to include at least a sentence for the owner, when I can. I did receive this log the other day :

[The SeeKPeeKRs have been spending part of their summer vacation for the past 16 or 17 years hanging out at Mrs. SeeKPeeKRs's uncle's camp on North Pond. We started geocaching at the end of 2004. Since then, every year before the SeeKPeeKRs travel north, I check to see what caches are located near North Pond. At first there weren't that many caches. Though, "vacation cache" (GC8573) and "N1SDR's" (GC14A8) have always been there for us to find. http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile.gifThere are many reasons why it has taken 5 years for the SeeKPeeKRs to attempt to find these caches .... one reason was the lack of information about how to access these older caches. It is lucky for us that the past two years have seen an explosion of caches in the area. http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_big.gif The best line in this cache's listing, "After grabbing N1DSR's (GC14A8) I noticed that quite a few people have had problems finding the correct parking area for this cache. I decided to help out." Yes, this cache really did help the SeeKPeeKRs discover the right path to finding both this cache and "N1SDR's." http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_cool.gif
Today, K SeeKPeeKRs, myself, and my mom (2 weeks shy of her 70th birthday) set out to find this cache and "N1SDR's." Using the hint, I was able to quickly find the cache. TFTC!]




Other than the fact that they REALLY like to put their geoname in a log a lot, I thought this was nice. And for those who want to come up to the area, it's an ammo can in the woods!!! As is my latest cache "Lets try this Again" GC2BWMQ Repeating: AMMO CAN IN THE WOODS!!

dubord207
08-15-2010, 05:09 PM
There are plenty of cachers that put effort into their logs and most at least put a "thanks" on their logs. I think Bruce once said that the length of his log is directly proportional to how much he and Teresa liked the cache. I think that's a very accurate statement, but it's also clear that some cachers just can't bring themselves to say anything about the caches they do. For those folks, I guess it is ONLY about the numbers and nothing else. So why don't they just put down the number and leave it at that?

I'll say it again, there are a lot of cachers that don't place caches and if they did they might find just how much fun it is to read enthusiastic logs. Maybe this is why Groundspeak is promoting Nominating logs.

WhereRWe?
08-15-2010, 05:36 PM
There are plenty of cachers that put effort into their logs and most at least put a "thanks" on their logs. I think Bruce once said that the length of his log is directly proportional to how much he and Teresa liked the cache.

Not only that, but the length of our log entries are usually proportional to how much effort the cache owner put into the cache. A 'drive-by GRC" gets "TNLNSL TFTC", while a nicely located, well stocked ammo can might get a paragraph or two. :D:D

If the log is full and/or wet, we probably won't even waste one of our "WhereRWe? and RULost2? found this cache" stickers! LOL!

brdad
08-15-2010, 06:09 PM
I've had this related thought as the last few posts on my mind for a few days. And as a disclaimer this statement is not meant to imply that anyone's hides are of lesser quality.

IMO logs length and content have less to do with cache quality than it does with what the cacher experienced getting the cache. If as a hider you really want to do your best to insure better, longer logs, hide caches which most of the time will force the finder to have a better, longer experience. A unique container, a tricky hide, nice place, nice description, nice spot, more than one thing to see, longer time to complete (short walk, multi, anything to slow the hider down) all contribute to more of an experience. You can hide a cache at a decent location and if the cacher takes less than a minute to get out of the car, log the cache and get back in, how much of an experience can anyone have? Don't rely on the finder to have the experience, force it on him! :D

You may get less finders on hides like this, but if you're looking for better logs, you don't need those in it only for the numbers doing your caches.

TeamHorwich
08-15-2010, 08:43 PM
you mean a nice log like this?

Log Date: 8/15/2010
We are on an 11 night adventure exploring New England states for the first time as a family. After visiting Bath/Brunswick and Camden areas yesterday, today we headed south and stopped at Freeport, ME. Friends of ours told us last year about this fun town and we just had to put it on our list of stops since we were so close. This was our first cache in Freeport, and it took us to a wonderful place! It is great to hear that LL Bean is giving back to the community by creating this park and skating pond for everyone to use. If it was winter, we would have loved to try it out, but today was another beautiful, sunny 80 degree day in the Northeast. CM made a quick find of this, walked away and then made the huckle. One by one we all found it, and DCM was the last to find it on this one as the other three are getting very good at throwing him off track! Thanks for the fun way to start our day in Freeport! malonefamily, Geneseo, NY

brdad
08-16-2010, 05:45 AM
you mean a nice log like this?


Yes, that is a very nice log. I saw several logs by this family on their travels through their state and it looks like they are great loggers - not that your cache was not worthy of a decent log - but they obviously take time to experience and remember the caches they do. Some of their log was focused not so much on the cache but their trip, which I think is fine especially when out of your normal area. I wish I could be half as inspired in my writing. I seem to do enough here in the forums, what's so hard about a cache log? :rolleyes:

cachecrashers4
08-16-2010, 07:51 AM
Confused - What's a huckle?

JustKev
08-16-2010, 10:56 AM
Is anyone else frustrated by heading out of their way to grab an unfound cache (both for the FTF and to give the hider a log on a new cache) only to find that someone signed the physical log yesterday....or even the day before...and then hasn't logged it online? Don't cha just hate that?

:mad:

Mainiac1957
08-16-2010, 04:19 PM
When I started caching way back when it was common thing. It has only been in the last 4 years or so that the FTF race has gotten so prevalent. Folks could be in an area on vacation and not do their logs till they returned home. So it could be a week or so in some cases. No one thought much of it.

dubord207
08-16-2010, 04:19 PM
While I know a lot of cachers don't chase FTF's, some do and I've been known to get a few...119 at last count but who's counting, and I think it's in poor taste to not log a FTF as soon as you can. This avoids having others feigning illness to their secretaries, telling clients the judge just called and wants you in court...now, telling your wife you've been swamped at work but will pick up dinner at Hannaford's on the way home ( the Hannaford's in Bucksport ) or telling an overzealous police officer that an alarm went off near your home and you're just responding at slightly over the posted speed.

These are solid reasons for getting those FTF's logged promptly!:D




Is anyone else frustrated by heading out of their way to grab an unfound cache (both for the FTF and to give the hider a log on a new cache) only to find that someone signed the physical log yesterday....or even the day before...and then hasn't logged it online? Don't cha just hate that?

:mad:

JustPJ66
08-16-2010, 04:40 PM
well we only have 17 or 18 so far....and dont always go out of our way to get them but when a cache has sat for days without anyone going to it ...call me soft hearted but I feel badly for the CO. I know I would just be a wreak if noone came to our caches after a few days...LOL So alot of our FTF's have been some that sat and sat and we just couldnt let that happen for anylonger hehe

JustPJ66
08-16-2010, 04:41 PM
of course then there is a cache like this mornings cache...only a few miles from the house...ya just GOTTA go for those! hehe

WhereRWe?
08-16-2010, 05:13 PM
of course then there is a cache like this mornings cache...only a few miles from the house...ya just GOTTA go for those! hehe

Sheesh! This thread is titled "Frustrating". Do you know what frustrating is? It's when 25 new caches are published within 6 miles of your home, and you are hundreds of miles away on vacation! LOL!

;);)

brdad
08-16-2010, 05:26 PM
I understand the appeal for an FTF, but I find it unsettling that people get upset when they run to find the cache only to find someone has already logged it.

Firstly, if I realized this happened on one of my caches, I would interpret that as "I only did that cache to be FTF, and now somebody else got there first, so it was a wasted cache hunt." I have seen logs posted to cache pages to this effect and I wonder just how the hiders feel to see those logs...

Secondly, Does it really matter what the time frame is if you are second? If the FTFer is leaving the parking lot as you drive in, it's ok, but if he was there 5 hours ago you get upset. Sorry, but I see no logic there. Feel free to try and explain!

The game is not GeoFTFing; FTFs are an added bonus, if you are in it only for FTF and the cache means nothing, you should try another game like drag racing where the intended goal is to be first.

WhereRWe?
08-16-2010, 05:42 PM
I understand the appeal for an FTF, but I find it unsettling that people get upset when they run to find the cache only to find someone has already logged it.


Yeah - I immediately thought of Haffy. LOL! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

JustPJ66
08-16-2010, 05:49 PM
I think you miss what kev is saying brdad. He did make it rather tounge in cheek after all....he isnt mad someone got it before us...only that it had been found a day or two and not logged online.....we are tickled for anyone who gets the chance to get an FTF they are fun.

dubord207
08-16-2010, 06:38 PM
C'mon brdad! There's a reason why Groundspeak has set up a link so geocachers can get phone notifications........because it's FUN to be the First to Find! I posted some tongue in cheek comments, but it really is fun to be the first to sign in on a new cache. Not everybody chases them, and I don't very often anymore, but I have a fond memory of coming up a goat path at about 11:00 PM at night and being amazed to see a set of headlights coming out...yeah, gob-ler who's only comment in passing was " You're too late!" A geocaching moment that I cherish.

So, it's fine if you personally have no competitive urge to chase new caches, but for those that do, have at it and I hope you log a few FTF's.

shuman road searchers
08-16-2010, 06:48 PM
One of the appeals to the FTF for me is stealing them out from other cachers. Sorry Dan!

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 06:55 PM
Is anyone else frustrated by heading out of their way to grab an unfound cache (both for the FTF and to give the hider a log on a new cache) only to find that someone signed the physical log yesterday....or even the day before...and then hasn't logged it online? Don't cha just hate that?

:mad:

It happens to me all the time. And then I get criticized for being critical over the pathetic behavior of the cacher who has no consideration for others. Damn liberal caching pukes.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 07:01 PM
I understand the appeal for an FTF, but I find it unsettling that people get upset when they run to find the cache only to find someone has already logged it.

Firstly, if I realized this happened on one of my caches, I would interpret that as "I only did that cache to be FTF, and now somebody else got there first, so it was a wasted cache hunt." I have seen logs posted to cache pages to this effect and I wonder just how the hiders feel to see those logs...

Secondly, Does it really matter what the time frame is if you are second? If the FTFer is leaving the parking lot as you drive in, it's ok, but if he was there 5 hours ago you get upset. Sorry, but I see no logic there. Feel free to try and explain!

The game is not GeoFTFing; FTFs are an added bonus, if you are in it only for FTF and the cache means nothing, you should try another game like drag racing where the intended goal is to be first.

No Brdad. Don't play dumb on this one. What bothers us FTF hounds is when we see a cache get published, and we cant run to it. So we put it on our watch list and wait all day for 18 hours. No one logs it. So finally when we get out of work, we run for it, only to find it already logged by someone. Then when you e-mail the FTF finder, and subtly inquire as to when they made the find, they non-chalantly tell you that they got it early in the AM but didn't log it for 18 hours. I've seen idiots wait 48 before logging their find, and then come up with dumb excuses.

In this day of age, there are NUMEROUS ways to log your FTF quicker than 48 hours, or even 4 hours. All of us here, and everyone who even knows what FTFs are or have notifications on GC.com for new publications has at least one other friend who is a cacher. Pick up the damn phone and call them and ask them to post a note on the cache listing saying that an FTF has been obtained and they will log it later. Is that too hard to ask for?

Marcipanek, DSKG, Lexmano, TeamHorwich, and I all log our FTFs from the field. And before Marcianek had that ability with his iPhone he used to call me and ask me to post a note. We do that out of respect, courtesy, and plain common sense. Is that too much to ask? Obviously it is. And for you to ignore this part of "the game" shows me what type of CACHER and PERSON you are, sir.

dubord207
08-16-2010, 07:10 PM
I'm with Chadd on this one. (except that last line where Chadd takes a cheap shot) but be real folks. There's lot who chase these things and finding the prize and being cute about it is not cool.. period. If you think keeping the prize "in your pocket" while other look is fun, then don't chase with the rest of us. I agree. Find and log it if you're the first. My secretaries did it for me before I got a Blackberry.

My guess is that those that don't care to chase the new ones could care less about this thread or what the hub-bub is all about, and that's fine. But for those of us that do, the comments here echo what the general fraternity of FTF hounds do, and that's to announce that you have the prize as soon as you can.

If it's not part of the game to you, then leave it to those of us who like this part to fairly sort it out.

WhereRWe?
08-16-2010, 08:02 PM
Find and log it if you're the first. My secretaries did it for me before I got a Blackberry.

What's your secretary's number? :D:D

We're on a 2-week trip. We haven't gotten any FTF's while traveling, but if we had, we sure as heck would not have started looking or the nearest Mickey D's to use their WiFi to log the cache. It can wait until we get to the hotel. Same as when we go on day-trip caching runs from home. If by chance we log a FTF, it can wait until we get home. Don't like that? Deal with it. :p:p

Waterski
08-16-2010, 08:08 PM
It sure seems like there are getting to be alot of assumed rules to this game lately. Lets not assume that everyone is carring a blackberry and has a secretary to call. Some people might cache all day , and even all week on vacation before getting to a computer. It happens. Maybe they are biking or camping or just feel like logging when they get darn good and ready. No rules against that. Lets not get our whatevers in a pucker :-) If the ftf is gone, then be happy for the smilie.

dubord207
08-16-2010, 08:14 PM
Barb and Celeste...we're in the book and they've been with me for over 33 years so they know all the tricks and have geocaching.com icons on their computer screens.

I don't think the criticism is aimed at people that drive all the way to Moxie competing with fellow cachers for FTF's who don't log until they get home. I think that should hit close to home Bruce, right? The comment is about those that clearly have the ability to log the cache but don't just to be cute. It happens and I for one think it's a bit aggravating.

Welcome home, by the way. How's the cat? He didn't go ferral did he?



What's your secretary's number? :D:D

We're on a 2-week trip. We haven't gotten any FTF's while traveling, but if we had, we sure as heck would not have started looking or the nearest Mickey D's to use their WiFi to log the cache. It can wait until we get to the hotel. Same as when we go on day-trip caching runs from home. If by chance we log a FTF, it can wait until we get home. Don't like that? Deal with it. :p:p

brdad
08-16-2010, 08:14 PM
I think you miss what kev is saying brdad. He did make it rather tounge in cheek after all....he isnt mad someone got it before us...only that it had been found a day or two and not logged online.....we are tickled for anyone who gets the chance to get an FTF they are fun.

Sorry, I did not mean to imply he was one of the 2ndTFers I was talking about. It's easy to see that by his post. Although, for me, the same feeling would pertain to being second where I was 2 minutes or two days late.

Dan & Chadd:
My post was not to imply FTFs were not fun or that they should hold no value to cachers. I've done my fair share, and have been second even more times. It's been a while since I have pushed hard for one, but a lot of that is because I have had other more important life issues to deal with. The point I was trying to get across is that if the only aspect of caching is the FTF as many second to find logs make it appear sometimes, perhaps it's not the best game to be playing. And from that line of thinking I say if you are second to find you should be happy to have found the cache anyway and take responsibility for your being second instead of blaming the FTFer for not logging it before you left home.

I'm not ignoring the FTF part of the game, I am suggesting it is not THE game.

Waterski
08-16-2010, 08:18 PM
In response to the 7:01 post.... some cachers may not have any other friends. :-) I would NEVER call another cacher and ask them to go on and log my finds. THAT to me would really make me an idiot. If anyone called me to do it, I would might think they were off their rocker.

brdad
08-16-2010, 08:29 PM
In response to the 7:01 post.... some cachers may not have any other friends. :-) I would NEVER call another cacher and ask them to go on and log my finds. THAT to me would really make me an idiot. If anyone called me to do it, I would might think they were off their rocker.

Oh my, I missed that comment! I'm with you!

brdad
08-16-2010, 09:04 PM
I don't think the criticism is aimed at people that drive all the way to Moxie competing with fellow cachers for FTF's who don't log until they get home. I think that should hit close to home Bruce, right? The comment is about those that clearly have the ability to log the cache but don't just to be cute. It happens and I for one think it's a bit aggravating

Unfortunately I think for some it does not matter the reason. :( For those, they should make their own race, "first to log" as has been done in other places in the past.

I have held off logging an FTF "just to be cute". IIRC it was not found again for 2 days anyway. I'm middle of the road if that is a bad practice or part of the game. And I wonder how one determines when a cacher is doing it on purpose or not. Anyway...

To me half the fun of a potential FTF is the tension you have getting there, wondering if you will be first. One could argue late FTF logs for whatever reason enable more cachers to experience that adrenaline rush.

If you came home with time to cache and saw there was a new cache a few miles away, then realized someone already logged it, would you not bother doing it? I am sure some would not, but I'd think you would go for it. So, if the same cache had not been logged, you would still be second, and would still have enjoyed the cache. The only difference is in one situation you miss out on the adrenaline rush.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 09:16 PM
I'm with Chadd on this one. (except that last line where Chadd takes a cheap shot) but be real folks. There's lot who chase these things and finding the prize and being cute about it is not cool.. period. If you think keeping the prize "in your pocket" while other look is fun, then don't chase with the rest of us. I agree. Find and log it if you're the first. My secretaries did it for me before I got a Blackberry.

My guess is that those that don't care to chase the new ones could care less about this thread or what the hub-bub is all about, and that's fine. But for those of us that do, the comments here echo what the general fraternity of FTF hounds do, and that's to announce that you have the prize as soon as you can.

If it's not part of the game to you, then leave it to those of us who like this part to fairly sort it out.

The cheap shot was very accurate.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 09:18 PM
Unfortunately I think for some it does not matter the reason. :( For those, they should make their own race, "first to log" as has been done in other places in the past.

I have held off logging an FTF "just to be cute". IIRC it was not found again for 2 days anyway. I'm middle of the road if that is a bad practice or part of the game. And I wonder how one determines when a cacher is doing it on purpose or not. Anyway...

To me half the fun of a potential FTF is the tension you have getting there, wondering if you will be first. One could argue late FTF logs for whatever reason enable more cachers to experience that adrenaline rush.

If you came home with time to cache and saw there was a new cache a few miles away, then realized someone already logged it, would you not bother doing it? I am sure some would not, but I'd think you would go for it. So, if the same cache had not been logged, you would still be second, and would still have enjoyed the cache. The only difference is in one situation you miss out on the adrenaline rush.

If I came home and saw a new cache had appeared nearby but had already been logged for an FTF, no I probably wouldn't run out and do it immeadiately. However if it hasn't been logged, yes I would. I am a very busy person. I can always find time in the future to get caches that are not brand new caches up for FTF claims. But when I run for an FTF I am usually attempting it while on time constraints, or do so by putting something else that maybe valuable time wise, on hold.

firefighterjake
08-16-2010, 09:20 PM
My mantra: Geocaching: It's only a game -- not life.

Enjoy life. Don't sweat the small stuff. Life is too short to not live.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 09:21 PM
In response to the 7:01 post.... some cachers may not have any other friends. :-) I would NEVER call another cacher and ask them to go on and log my finds. THAT to me would really make me an idiot. If anyone called me to do it, I would might think they were off their rocker.

Read my post again. I never said that I call or suggest that others call friends to LOG their finds. I suggested that they post a note on the listing that the cache has been found and the finder will log his find later. I see nothing unreasonable about this what soever. I do find your inability to pay attention to detail and what I said though, to be unreasonable.

cano
08-16-2010, 09:48 PM
In the future cache will be able to log itself when found. When you open it, it will log that it has been just found :)

Fins_Up
08-16-2010, 10:02 PM
To each his own. For some the joy is in being first and for others it is a unique hide. I have 4 FTFs and they were fun but it is a good hide that may take me more than 1 trip to find that I remember. I also especially enjoy the times when I might run into another cacher on the trail. I remember these experiences more than who found it before me. Oh yeah, and I like it when Kev and PJ leave special notes in the cache when they find it before me ;-)

Waterski
08-16-2010, 10:14 PM
I am especially happy that " respect, courtesy, and just common sense" are being used by some cachers . That is good to know. It makes up for the numerous slams about the idiots. All in all, the contributions everyone makes on here sure do make it interesting.

JustKev
08-16-2010, 11:04 PM
All this over my question about being *frustrated* by finding it logged a day or more earlier. And just about everything else I wrote was done "tongue in cheek". We might not have gone after the one I wrote about if I had known it was already grabbed but we went out of our intended line of travel because it hadn't been logged and it's frustrating to find it logged the previous day. I'm not upset by this, after all we found a cache and logged it. I won't be going postal and hanging out in Richmond with a high power squirt gun to soak the next FTF grabber that beats me to the cache. :)

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 11:16 PM
I am especially happy that " respect, courtesy, and just common sense" are being used by some cachers . That is good to know. It makes up for the numerous slams about the idiots. All in all, the contributions everyone makes on here sure do make it interesting.

The individuals who deserve to be "slammed" are he only ones who are slammed.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 11:18 PM
What's your secretary's number? :D:D

We're on a 2-week trip. We haven't gotten any FTF's while traveling, but if we had, we sure as heck would not have started looking or the nearest Mickey D's to use their WiFi to log the cache. It can wait until we get to the hotel. Same as when we go on day-trip caching runs from home. If by chance we log a FTF, it can wait until we get home. Don't like that? Deal with it. :p:p

That is because you revel in the joy of seeing others being pissed at you.

CARoperPhotography
08-16-2010, 11:24 PM
Unfortunately I think for some it does not matter the reason. :( For those, they should make their own race, "first to log" as has been done in other places in the past.

I have held off logging an FTF "just to be cute". IIRC it was not found again for 2 days anyway. I'm middle of the road if that is a bad practice or part of the game. And I wonder how one determines when a cacher is doing it on purpose or not. Anyway...

To me half the fun of a potential FTF is the tension you have getting there, wondering if you will be first. One could argue late FTF logs for whatever reason enable more cachers to experience that adrenaline rush.

If you came home with time to cache and saw there was a new cache a few miles away, then realized someone already logged it, would you not bother doing it? I am sure some would not, but I'd think you would go for it. So, if the same cache had not been logged, you would still be second, and would still have enjoyed the cache. The only difference is in one situation you miss out on the adrenaline rush.

Last fall, I ran for a series of FTFs on caches put out by MaineSleddah in Biddeford called the Mini-Stud Run. Marcipanek, H8ter, Fjordriders, and I all got a share of the FTFs. I started at one end and worked my way down until I met up with the rest of them. At the time I did not have an iPhone and the ability to log finds on the fly on site as I do now. Once I had gotten 9 FTFs that morning, Marcipanek and I decided to run up to Yarmouth to attempt Medusa's Challenge which was the last remaining cache , yet to be found left over from the Maine Geo-Rallye 2009.

We got the FTF on Medusa as well at that time. However when I got home there was an e-mail waiting for me from HD asking me what time I had gotten the FTFs on the mini-stud run, because he watched them all day from his home in Windham and finally after not seeing any action of logging on the listings he and his wife drove down to Biddeford to grab them. He was quite upset that we had taken 8 hours to log the FTFs.

After that, I realized the importance of this issue and have never let it happen again.

JustPJ66
08-17-2010, 05:58 AM
We dont have a phone that provides internet all we have is a track phone. And we dont know any cachers who would be putting notes on caches for us if we used valuable minutes from our phone to call them. We dont log our finds till we get home...but it is THAT day that the logs are made and if we are tired and wait till morning the FTF would be logged that night tired or not. I just look at logging an FTF quickly as a courtesy....to the CO and to other cachers.

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:44 AM
And, on a side note, the cache that brought about my comment still only has mine and JustPJ66's logs as being found the MsToastMaster's DNF log. The log in the cache had the date 8/14 for the FTF and we logged it on 8/15. You would think the cacher doesn't have access to the internet while on vacation or something but then the thought pops into your head.....how did they get the cache listing? Maybe they're one of those who logs the physical log and doesn't log online? That would then beg the question, if you're just finding them with no intention of logging them online, why bother to sign the physical log. Once you've touched the container you've found it and need no futher proof if you're not going to log it on the cache listing. Of course, if there's an FTF prize and you take it without signing the physical log that would certainly provide plenty of confusion. I still think it's a courtesy to log the cache online as soon as you can when it's an FTF. Either that or cache with someone who has one of the new Chrysler minivans that is a mobile hotspot so you can log as you go. :)

dubord207
08-17-2010, 10:02 AM
Well stated, Kev, my point exactly. Hope there's enough courtesy in our game to go around!:)

[QUOTE I just look at logging an FTF quickly as a courtesy....to the CO and to other cachers.[/QUOTE]

CARoperPhotography
08-17-2010, 12:21 PM
Well stated, Kev, my point exactly. Hope there's enough courtesy in our game to go around!:)

[QUOTE I just look at logging an FTF quickly as a courtesy....to the CO and to other cachers.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. A courtesy. However when the courtesy is not extended or understood, I see no problem with giving the offender a lesson, Nd being critical. There is a certain point where the timing of logging an FTF goes beyond the explainable and I would hope that cachers who still insist on flaunting the lack of courtesy with their FTF logging will stop.

By the way, I am posting this comment from my Jeep with my iPhone tethered to my Geocaching netbook on the RAM Mount, police style! ;-):cool:

brdad
08-17-2010, 03:52 PM
Why not just make it standard practice for anyone heading out for an FTF that they post a note on the cache page before leaving home. That way no one will waste their time being second to find on the cache. :confused:

I still don't get it. Courtesy or no courtesy, if you're a minute late or two days late for the FTF, you are at least second to find. Knowing someone else got the cache has no bearing on that. If the listing is more than an hour old, assume someone else has gone for it!

Ekidokai
08-17-2010, 06:32 PM
That's ridiculous. FTF is what it is. If you take it upon yourself to go for a FTF then that is totally on you. Makes no difference when it is logged online. I don't go for FTF often and don't think twice about logging it online. Most of the time someone has already loged a second or third to find before I log my find. Obviously if you go out for a FTF it will come first on your list of things to do that day. If I don't get home until later, thats when I will log it.

No where written or implied does it say anything about a time frame for logging. A perceived infraction of nonexistent rules has little importance as does dandruff on a flea.

WhereRWe?
08-17-2010, 06:35 PM
Why not just make it standard practice for anyone heading out for an FTF that they post a note on the cache page before leaving home. That way no one will waste their time being second to find on the cache. :confused:


Sheesh! Once a cache is listed, there could be 4-5 people dashing out to get FTF. Do you really think that a log note saying "I'm going out to get the FTF" is going to deter anyone? LOL!

WhereRWe?
08-17-2010, 06:38 PM
A perceived infraction of nonexistent rules has little importance as does dandruff on a flea.

Maybe it doesn't have any importance to you, but what about the flea??? :confused::confused:

(By the way - WE'RE BACK! Fifteen days and 4500 miles later - and we added Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas to our "states cached" list. (Not that we're counting, or anything... :rolleyes::rolleyes:)

brdad
08-17-2010, 06:46 PM
Sheesh! Once a cache is listed, there could be 4-5 people dashing out to get FTF. Do you really think that a log note saying "I'm going out to get the FTF" is going to deter anyone? LOL!

Of course, we'll declare it common courtesy, the first person who logs the note gets to go find and log the FTF, and everyone else has to sit home and wait for the found log to appear (within 20 seconds of the cache find, of course - common courtesy) before they head out to find the cache. Oh wait, there's the flaw, if they can't be FTF they might as well wait until they have a reason to go get that cache.... :):p:):p:):p:):p

Really, the frustrating and disturbing part of it all is these threads that have few positive points get so much attention when there are much more positive and productive threads to follow. And sorry to say, I've contributed to it as well.


(By the way - WE'RE BACK! Fifteen days and 4500 miles later - and we added Texas, Oklahoma and Arkansas to our "states cached" list. (Not that we're counting, or anything... :rolleyes::rolleyes:)

That's a personal desire for Lee and I as well. I think I have 32 states and Lee has 33. Like FTFs, getting 50 states is a added bonus, not the goal of our caching. We're also hoping to get all USA 2000 caches someday as well!

Fins_Up
08-17-2010, 06:55 PM
I got most of the east coast when we drove down to Disney this spring. I was surprised at how much fun those welcome center caches turned out to be. Most were full size ammo cans!

Sabby
08-17-2010, 07:21 PM
That's a personal desire for Lee and I as well. I think I have 32 states and Lee has 33. Like FTFs, getting 50 states is a added bonus, not the goal of our caching. We're also hoping to get all USA 2000 caches someday as well!

Now if you have a FTF in all 50 states, that would be an accomplishment! :)

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:00 PM
Okay, I'm not frustrated anymore. I'll never be frustrated again. I won't ever post that I am frustrated by anything.

Does anyone else ever get reverse excited when they go out of their way to grab an FTF only to find that someone else found it ...... yesterday ..... and still haven't logged it online the next day?

JustPJ66
08-17-2010, 08:03 PM
forgive him guys he is on pain meds LOL

brdad
08-17-2010, 08:05 PM
Okay, I'm not frustrated anymore. I'll never be frustrated again. I won't ever post that I am frustrated by anything.

Does anyone else ever get reverse excited when they go out of their way to grab an FTF only to find that someone else found it ...... yesterday ..... and still haven't logged it online the next day?

I refuse to comment on your negativity! I'm not gonna say a word! And I was supposed to be FTC (First To Comment). JustPJ66 didn't announce her intention to post, and now I am second! Bad JustPJ66! Bad JustPJ66!

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:17 PM
I read her the post, brdad, and she merely replied, "Nah nah nah nah boo boo!"

Ekidokai
08-17-2010, 08:29 PM
If you are going to assign a level of importance to something, don't expect everyone else to find the same level of importance that you do.

If you find it important to go be first to find on a cache you can not expect everyone else to go along with the rules and implied courtesies that you make up.

The implied courtesies and importance is what you have brought to this subclass of the sport. It might be frustrating for you not to have everyone accept and play by your rules, but you made the rules, you set the level of importance and I did not sign on to play by your rules.

brdad
08-17-2010, 08:31 PM
Oh my, I may have to agree with every word Ekidokai just said. Don't let him know, it'll go to his head...

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:34 PM
If you are going to assign a level of importance to something, don't expect everyone else to find the same level of importance that you do.

If you find it important to go be first to find on a cache you can not expect everyone else to go along with the rules and implied courtesies that you make up.

The implied courtesies and importance is what you have brought to this subclass of the sport. It might be frustrating for you not to have everyone accept and play by your rules, but you made the rules, you set the level of importance and I did not sign on to play by your rules.

....from your previous posts that you don't care much about FTFs. I guess your forte would be being frustrated by kayaks?

:eek:

Sorry, Mike, couldn't resist.

Ekidokai
08-17-2010, 08:36 PM
T$#&^%(*&*** to you!

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:44 PM
I heard that " T$#&^%(*&*** " was what you said on the kayak cache, but with more bubbles.

Gob-ler
08-17-2010, 08:47 PM
I vote that Ekidokai be nominated to place the new Titanic Challenge Cache!

CARoperPhotography
08-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Of course, we'll declare it common courtesy, the first person who logs the note gets to go find and log the FTF, and everyone else has to sit home and wait for the found log to appear (within 20 seconds of the cache find, of course - common courtesy) before they head out to find the cache. Oh wait, there's the flaw, if they can't be FTF they might as well wait until they have a reason to go get that cache.... :):p:):p:):p:):p

Really, the frustrating and disturbing part of it all is these threads that have few positive points get so much attention when there are much more positive and productive threads to follow. And sorry to say, I've contributed to it as well.



That's a personal desire for Lee and I as well. I think I have 32 states and Lee has 33. Like FTFs, getting 50 states is a added bonus, not the goal of our caching. We're also hoping to get all USA 2000 caches someday as well!

Do you not understand that we are talking about people who wait MANY hours, or DAYS to log their FTFs?

JustKev
08-17-2010, 08:52 PM
Speaking of kayaks, did you get any resolution on your attempt to return yours yet?

CARoperPhotography
08-17-2010, 08:53 PM
forgive him guys he is on pain meds LOL

He's entirely correct though.

Ekidokai
08-17-2010, 09:32 PM
Speaking of kayaks, did you get any resolution on your attempt to return yours yet?

Yes I did. Got a new one today from Old Town

Fall Sale
125 Gilman Falls Ave. Old Town

September 18th - 20th

15% off I think

Sat. 7-6 Sun, 10 - 3 Mon 9 - 6

masterson of the universe
08-18-2010, 12:11 AM
Suppose you dont care to log your caches online but you still wanna run for the FTF? That could very well be someone playing the game they wanna play it. It's a valid find if they sign the log but nothing in the rules says you have to log your finds on the site.

brdad
08-18-2010, 06:14 AM
Suppose you dont care to log your caches online but you still wanna run for the FTF? That could very well be someone playing the game they wanna play it. It's a valid find if they sign the log but nothing in the rules says you have to log your finds on the site.

Well, the procedure of logging a find does state logging online, but it's an online business, of course it would. But regardless, you make a good point, there are cachers who do not log online for several reasons, including not getting mixed up in the banter over numbers or FTFs.



Step 4 The Actual Find

Hurray! You found your first geocache. Congratulations! Now what?

1. Take note of the style and method of this hide. Where did this geocache bring you? Enjoy the location.
2. Sign the logbook with your name, the date, and a few words about your experience.
3. If you trade for items, remember to trade for something that is of equal or greater value.
4. Make sure to seal the cache and place it back exactly where and how you found it. If it had some rocks covering it, please replace those.
5. Use the waypoint you created as a helpful guide for your return.
6. When you get home, log your experience online by going back to that cache page and using the links provided. The cache owner is automatically notified of your log and is always happy to know about your adventure, the condition of their cache, and any environmental factors. Upload photos to share your experience visually with other geocachers.

firefighterjake
08-18-2010, 07:29 AM
If you are going to assign a level of importance to something, don't expect everyone else to find the same level of importance that you do.

If you find it important to go be first to find on a cache you can not expect everyone else to go along with the rules and implied courtesies that you make up.

The implied courtesies and importance is what you have brought to this subclass of the sport. It might be frustrating for you not to have everyone accept and play by your rules, but you made the rules, you set the level of importance and I did not sign on to play by your rules.

Maybe it's just me, but you're making a lot more sense than normal Mike. For the record, I agree with you.

JustKev
08-18-2010, 07:38 AM
You guys still don't get it. If it doesn't frustrate you it doesn't pertain to you. JustPJ and I are not assigning any importance or courtesies to any one. We're stating what we do, what we think. It's like getting on the interstate. If you're on the on ramp and there's a car in the right lane and nothing in the left, it's a coutesy to move over so the car getting on can do so. It's not required, it's a courtesy. The car on the on ramp has the yield. I've known people who refuse to leave their lane of travel. I, personally, think it's a courtesy that I'd like returned when I'm on the on ramp so I move over to let them in. End of statement.

cano
08-18-2010, 12:42 PM
You guys still don't get it. If it doesn't frustrate you it doesn't pertain to you. JustPJ and I are not assigning any importance or courtesies to any one. We're stating what we do, what we think. It's like getting on the interstate. If you're on the on ramp and there's a car in the right lane and nothing in the left, it's a coutesy to move over so the car getting on can do so. It's not required, it's a courtesy. The car on the on ramp has the yield. I've known people who refuse to leave their lane of travel. I, personally, think it's a courtesy that I'd like returned when I'm on the on ramp so I move over to let them in. End of statement.

It's not a courtesy, it's a fear that he will not yield and hit me.

CARoperPhotography
08-18-2010, 03:10 PM
Suppose you dont care to log your caches online but you still wanna run for the FTF? That could very well be someone playing the game they wanna play it. It's a valid find if they sign the log but nothing in the rules says you have to log your finds on the site.

However they will soon find themselves ostracised by the rest of the geocaching community.

In the US we all have the right to free speech, as the 1st Amendment to the Constiution states. However, does that mean that when we use certain words in public or in certain groups of people like say the "n" word, or the "c" word, that we should not expect to get criticized?

That being said, why don't you go to Harlem or Baltimore and walk up to an african american and say "what's up my n*****!". It's your legal right to say that. Heck, he says it to his friends. However you will not be pleased with the reaction you get.

What it comes down to is that just because it is your right to Geocache or play the game as you wish, it is also understood that there are some behaviors that just won't be tolerated by the rest of the community. Namely, finding a cache and waiting DAYS before logging the cache as the FTF.

EMSDanel
08-18-2010, 06:11 PM
To those of you who know me, you must wondering what has taken me so long to weigh in on this thread. For one thing, I visit this site with only a fraction of the frequency that I used to and this thread is one of the reasons. I've watched this thread, mostly shaking my head, at the arrogance of some and the utter nastiness of others. But I firmly believe that a very high percentage of the readers see who some of the comments are coming from, see the words being written, and give them no credibility. I learned at a very young age not to pee into the wind because it just comes right back at you and I fully trust that will happen after I post this. But that's OK, I'll know who the urine is, so here goes.

First, I used to be a very big FTF hound - but then I grew up. I realized I was running out of the house, leaving dinner behind, or chores that needed to be done. I was doing it at the detriment of my home life, and that's just plain wrong. I still get a few FTF's but at my own leizure. Today my geocaching is quality and not childish quantity. I don't fish in a barrel then strut around bragging what a good fisherman I am, just like I don't have my phone chime the second a new cache is posted in an attempt to get a jump on other cachers. Some sport that is.....

With all that being said I do, indeed, log the FTF's as soon as I can as a courtesy to others. So I AGREE with the main theme of this thread. Sometimes that does occur hours later or when I get back at the end of the day. Never from the scene....deal with it. Sometimes I chuckle when I see a new cache come up and think about the people who may be right on screech, going through red lights, in an attempt to be FTF. But that's OK, if that's what they choose to do. But I'll get ostracized by the rest of the geocaching community? Maybe by one or two arrogant and immature people, who's opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. Nothing! (they truly believe the way THEY think is the one and only true way). Deal with it. And the way I choose to play the game "won't be tolorated by the rest of the community"? All hail, it appears we've been spoken to by the God of all caching.

If I happen to be in the right spot at the right time and it turns out to be a FTF I'll say "Great!" I'll log it when I get back to the house, whenever that is, I promise. Each and every time. But stop with the drivel about how I should purchase a Blackberry and log from the scene or call a friend to log it for me so that your prescious little feelings don't get hurt. Go ahead, chummy, start your ostracism.

TeamHorwich
08-18-2010, 06:34 PM
ok, ok...this has been interesting but I'm starting to think it has run its course...well, maybe not...no one has brought up beer in this thread yet...

WhereRWe?
08-18-2010, 06:37 PM
Sheesh! Very well stated, Daniel! :D:D


To those of you who know me, you must wondering what has taken me so long to weigh in on this thread. For one thing, I visit this site with only a fraction of the frequency that I used to and this thread is one of the reasons. I've watched this thread, mostly shaking my head, at the arrogance of some and the utter nastiness of others. But I firmly believe that a very high percentage of the readers see who some of the comments are coming from, see the words being written, and give them no credibility. I learned at a very young age not to pee into the wind because it just comes right back at you and I fully trust that will happen after I post this. But that's OK, I'll know who the urine is, so here goes.

First, I used to be a very big FTF hound - but then I grew up. I realized I was running out of the house, leaving dinner behind, or chores that needed to be done. I was doing it at the detriment of my home life, and that's just plain wrong. I still get a few FTF's but at my own leizure. Today my geocaching is quality and not childish quantity. I don't fish in a barrel then strut around bragging what a good fisherman I am, just like I don't have my phone chime the second a new cache is posted in an attempt to get a jump on other cachers. Some sport that is.....

With all that being said I do, indeed, log the FTF's as soon as I can as a courtesy to others. So I AGREE with the main theme of this thread. Sometimes that does occur hours later or when I get back at the end of the day. Never from the scene....deal with it. Sometimes I chuckle when I see a new cache come up and think about the people who may be right on screech, going through red lights, in an attempt to be FTF. But that's OK, if that's what they choose to do. But I'll get ostracized by the rest of the geocaching community? Maybe by one or two arrogant and immature people, who's opinions mean absolutely nothing to me. Nothing! (they truly believe the way THEY think is the one and only true way). Deal with it. And the way I choose to play the game "won't be tolorated by the rest of the community"? All hail, it appears we've been spoken to by the God of all caching.

If I happen to be in the right spot at the right time and it turns out to be a FTF I'll say "Great!" I'll log it when I get back to the house, whenever that is, I promise. Each and every time. But stop with the drivel about how I should purchase a Blackberry and log from the scene or call a friend to log it for me so that your prescious little feelings don't get hurt. Go ahead, chummy, start your ostracism.

team barbieri
08-18-2010, 06:51 PM
First, I used to be a very big FTF hound - but then I grew up. I realized I was running out of the house, leaving dinner behind, or chores that needed to be done. I was doing it at the detriment of my home life, and that's just plain wrong. I still get a few FTF's but at my own leizure. Today my geocaching is quality and not childish quantity.


quality and not childish quantity. I do run for the FTF's in my area whenever its possible for me to do so. I don' think it is childish, in fact it has been a great way for me to meet cachers in my area and to get to know new friends and that has made each one of these FTF runs a quality cache for me, even when I'm not first to find.

I think the point earlier was when they were not logged until the next day or so. I just assume that a new cache has been found within the first hour around here. I do log it by my blackberry or the computer in my truck when I get a FTF, or second, or tenth on new caches just because I know that there are alot of other people in my area that chase them. I dont think that people are saying that everyone should buy a smart phone to do that but if you have the capability to do so, then why not. When chadd said he would call a friend to note the cache I believe he was explaining what he was doing as a courtesy and not trying to enforce it as a rule.

When people on here just try to explain what it is they like, or dislike, it seems that everyone else thinks that they are trying to dictate what everyone should do, but its just they way they like to play this game. So far as a "newbie" I have read a lot of post that I might not agree with but it does not change how I play, nor has it scared me away. My wife and I have started in feb of this year and including the online forums and the people we have met out caching I have not met or talked or chatted with anyone that I dislike, even if I dont agree. Your opinion is Yours and may be different than mine, but we cann still be friends.:)

WhereRWe?
08-18-2010, 07:30 PM
ok, ok...this has been interesting but I'm starting to think it has run its course...well, maybe not...no one has brought up beer in this thread yet...

Sheesh! I'm like a dog on a rabbit when it comes to beer, but I don't think there has been much mention of beer outside the "Official GeocachingMaine.org Beer Thread (http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?t=1275&page=25&highlight=beer+thread)!" LOL!

tat
08-18-2010, 08:11 PM
I love to be FTF too:

http://coord.info/GC1CN77
http://coord.info/GCK5H6

Waterski
08-18-2010, 09:20 PM
Tat, these don't look like the FTF's that you leave dinner on the stove and rush out to do. Good for you!! Sounds like a great adventure.

EMSDanel
08-18-2010, 10:20 PM
To Team Barbieri..... Nice post.....very nicely said

CARoperPhotography
08-18-2010, 10:57 PM
ok, ok...this has been interesting but I'm starting to think it has run its course...well, maybe not...no one has brought up beer in this thread yet...

When you get back from Serbia, you and I are hitting Novre' Res and then IMAX showing of Inception! BEER!

CARoperPhotography
08-18-2010, 10:59 PM
I love to be FTF too:

http://coord.info/GC1CN77
http://coord.info/GCK5H6

If I ever see an FTF logged by TAT on one of my caches published in MAINE, I will have to give FTF credit to the STF finder ;-) ha ha ha :D

CARoperPhotography
08-18-2010, 11:08 PM
quality and not childish quantity. I do run for the FTF's in my area whenever its possible for me to do so. I don' think it is childish, in fact it has been a great way for me to meet cachers in my area and to get to know new friends and that has made each one of these FTF runs a quality cache for me, even when I'm not first to find.

I think the point earlier was when they were not logged until the next day or so. I just assume that a new cache has been found within the first hour around here. I do log it by my blackberry or the computer in my truck when I get a FTF, or second, or tenth on new caches just because I know that there are alot of other people in my area that chase them. I dont think that people are saying that everyone should buy a smart phone to do that but if you have the capability to do so, then why not. When chadd said he would call a friend to note the cache I believe he was explaining what he was doing as a courtesy and not trying to enforce it as a rule.

When people on here just try to explain what it is they like, or dislike, it seems that everyone else thinks that they are trying to dictate what everyone should do, but its just they way they like to play this game. So far as a "newbie" I have read a lot of post that I might not agree with but it does not change how I play, nor has it scared me away. My wife and I have started in feb of this year and including the online forums and the people we have met out caching I have not met or talked or chatted with anyone that I dislike, even if I dont agree. Your opinion is Yours and may be different than mine, but we cann still be friends.:)

TeamBarbieri, you have proven to be the farthest thing from a "newbie" in the past months, and I mean that as a strong compliment. I am sure that many of the dinosaur cachers on this forum would still label ME as a newbie only because they just don't care for me....

Anyone who calls cachers who care about numbers, to be childish are insulting MANY great cachers. Do I dare to name names (and by doing so, actually compliment the great cachers amongst us?).....

I would contend that cachers who choose to cache as if it is 1875 and log their FTFs via PONY express are the childish ones, not the cachers who utilize contemporary HIGH TECH logging methods, with this HIGH TECH treasure hunt game.

Its funny how cachers who own hundreds of dollar GPS devices and use the internet on a minute by minute basis to comment on this thread, use their lack of a "smart phone" as an excuse to log FTFs, hours, days, or WEEKS after the find, as a slam against us courteous FTF runners.

Enough said.

I think TeamHorwich is correct. This thread has run it's course. I can see from all the answers where everyone stands, and unfortunately many of the self proclaimed "great" and "experienced" cachers in the State of Maine, seem to agree that all of us numbers cachers and FTF runners, are in fact second, or third class individuals.

Thank you all for only proving my points when it comes to the hypocrisy within our wonderful caching community.

Ekidokai
08-19-2010, 12:36 AM
I can see from all the answers where everyone stands, and unfortunately many of the self proclaimed "great" and "experienced" cachers in the State of Maine, seem to agree that all of us numbers cachers and FTF runners, are in fact second, or third class individuals.

You maybe classifying yourselves a bit high there and not just the Mainers.

Tried for a first FTF today but since the person didn't care enough to immediately log it I lost out. Good going.

EMSDanel
08-19-2010, 01:27 AM
Last entry for tonight and probably the last (by me) for this thread:

"self proclaimed" great and experienced cachers? Who does that? You just couldn't resist another cheap shot? I know of no other cacher who toots his own horn more than you do.

Secondly, most of your points are never "proved" by anyone, except in your own mind.

But here comes the olive branch: You mention "our wonderful caching community" and I really do agree with you on that. This thread was intended to encourage cachers to log their FTF's in a timely fashion so that others will not do crazy things in an attempt to get a FTF that has already been found.....and I concur with that as well.

GeocachingMaine.org has (for the most part, and unlike some other forums) remained positive and free of nasty/mean spirited remarks and references. It's time for a reminder to everyone about that. A couple of people would do well to take a Prozak and count to ten before posting such mean-spirited entries.

And you know what? Despite all of the differences of opinion, we're all geocachers. I made note of the fact a couple of years ago that if my car battery died out in the middle of the woods I hope that a geocacher comes along. WhereRWe, Waterski, Ekidokai, Dubord, Team Barbieri, TeamHorwich, brdad, firefighterjake, TAT and all of the others resonding in this thread would, most likely, stop and lend a hand. And I'll bet you would too.

pm28570
08-19-2010, 08:29 AM
Goodbye GeocachingMaine.org

This will be my last post on this forum. I hope my $10.00 donation is well spent. Personally, it was the worst decision concerning $10.00 I have ever made. I have had it with the hypocrisy, whining, thin skin, and plain backstabbing here.

See you on the trails....:cool:

~Chadd (SeriousTool)

Childish or not childish?

Waterski
08-19-2010, 08:31 AM
Well, if you were on your way to a ftf out in those woods, I would probably have to continue on and help you on my way back out. ha ha Just kidding of course.
Good points made EMS. People from away won't want to cache in Maine if all this negativity keeps occuring on our site here. If the FTF police called or pmed me to find out why I had not logged in their time frame, I would probably say bad things to them or give up the game. No one cacher in entitled to try to make rules and tell the rest of us how to cache. If it becomes too frustrating just don't cache. No one will rule the masses, there are just too many of us and no one really wants to be told what to do. I have gone to many caches to find it already signed. So be it. That is the nature of the game. If it is a hardship to go and expect that might happen, why go? Cache on everyone, and enjoy the trip and try to have a fun and positive experience. Maine cachers are a wonderful group of people. Thank you all for your contributions to the game. Stop slamming your fellow geocachers.

pm28570
08-19-2010, 08:47 AM
Good points made EMS. People from away won't want to cache in Maine if all this negativity keeps occuring on our site here.

I have to disagree. Maine offers such a variety of caching experiences for all levels that it follows the iconic line from the movie "Field of Dreams"....if you build it, they will come. For the nature lovers, there are the Bradbury Mountain State Parks; for paddlers there is Vic's and Lacy's kayak series; for power run types, there is the SMR and York county runs as well as the innovative Power Rangers run; for the science-minded there is Northwoods Explorer's Earthcaches (absolutely the best as far as I'm concerned); for puzzle lovers, there is Cano's, Brdad's and the list goes on and on. If you don't like power runs, go kayaking. Don't like GRC's? Go do Battleship. I think you get the picture. Apologies if I've left anyone out in the above descriptions, but Maine has it all. What's not to like?

Mapachi
08-19-2010, 09:49 AM
I only have about 25 or so caches out and get about 5 emails a day for finds. The majority are "found with geojohndoe, tftc" Some are just "tftc" and others have a great story involved. To be honest, I didn't realize how many cache owners want a story, and for the first year or so I simply just logged the cache. I now make an effort to include at least a sentence for the owner, when I can. I did receive this log the other day :

[The SeeKPeeKRs have been spending part of their summer vacation for the past 16 or 17 years hanging out at Mrs. SeeKPeeKRs's uncle's camp on North Pond. We started geocaching at the end of 2004. Since then, every year before the SeeKPeeKRs travel north, I check to see what caches are located near North Pond. At first there weren't that many caches. Though, "vacation cache" (GC8573) and "N1SDR's" (GC14A8) have always been there for us to find. http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile.gifThere are many reasons why it has taken 5 years for the SeeKPeeKRs to attempt to find these caches .... one reason was the lack of information about how to access these older caches. It is lucky for us that the past two years have seen an explosion of caches in the area. http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_big.gif The best line in this cache's listing, "After grabbing N1DSR's (GC14A8) I noticed that quite a few people have had problems finding the correct parking area for this cache. I decided to help out." Yes, this cache really did help the SeeKPeeKRs discover the right path to finding both this cache and "N1SDR's." http://www.geocaching.com/images/icons/icon_smile_cool.gif
Today, K SeeKPeeKRs, myself, and my mom (2 weeks shy of her 70th birthday) set out to find this cache and "N1SDR's." Using the hint, I was able to quickly find the cache. TFTC!]




Other than the fact that they REALLY like to put their geoname in a log a lot, I thought this was nice. And for those who want to come up to the area, it's an ammo can in the woods!!! As is my latest cache "Lets try this Again" GC2BWMQ Repeating: AMMO CAN IN THE WOODS!!


This is a cut and paste! I got the exact same log on one of my caches!

Mapachi
08-19-2010, 10:03 AM
In response to the 7:01 post.... some cachers may not have any other friends. :-) I would NEVER call another cacher and ask them to go on and log my finds. THAT to me would really make me an idiot. If anyone called me to do it, I would might think they were off their rocker.

So what is wrong with logging a cache for another cacher if he has no access to a computer? I have done it. It could keep an ugly bastard from complaining about not getting a FTF!:eek::eek:

JustKev
08-19-2010, 10:13 AM
So what is wrong with logging a cache for another cacher if he has no access to a computer? I have done it. It could keep an ugly bastard from complaining about not getting a FTF!:eek::eek:

Who you callin "ugly"?

:eek:

Mapachi
08-19-2010, 10:33 AM
GOOD GAWD MAUDE! I haven't been on Geocaching Maine for about three weeks. I have 495 unread posts, and I choose "Frustrating" as the first to read!!! It took me 45 minutes to read the whole thread! I added a couple of blurbs before I read the whole thing..It dosen't change anything I wrote..
This was a fun read and I want to thank all who have added to my entertainment by leaving your comments on this thread! The dialogue was as good as a Quentin Tarantino movie!

WOW! IT'S ONLY A GAME FOLKS!!

CACHE LONG AND PROSPER

pm28570
08-19-2010, 01:35 PM
I have recently had someone log about 6 of my caches and write, "too many muggles about to sign the log - TFTC." I noticed they have done this on others caches as well. They have "found" more than 300, but not hidden any. They have been caching since 2005 (from Mass.) Now, I usually don't like to delete logs, but isn't it an essential part of the game to ACTUALLY SIGN THE LOG?!? (OK, I know, people can play the way they want to, but if you are not going to sign the log...don't tell me in your online log!):confused:

To get back to the origins of this thread.....uh....yeah, outta' be signing it to count it.

Hiram357
08-19-2010, 02:37 PM
Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words.

This has been a PSA of Hiram's viewpoint... :D

brdad
08-19-2010, 02:46 PM
So what is wrong with logging a cache for another cacher if he has no access to a computer? I have done it. It could keep an ugly bastard from complaining about not getting a FTF!:eek::eek:

I have a hard job asking anyone for help. If I fell off a cliff while caching and ended up in a body cast, I probably would not even ask my wife to log my finds for the day - not even a note - FTF or not - I'd more likely wait until I could do so myself.

The real question is - would I let her continue on to the cache and crawl back to the car myself..... :D

pm28570
08-19-2010, 04:08 PM
Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words.

This has been a PSA of Hiram's viewpoint... :D

Anti ale, are we? :D

Hiram357
08-19-2010, 05:10 PM
Anti ale, are we? :D

your post is too long for my attention to keep up... please use less words... :rolleyes::rolleyes::p

Sudonim
08-19-2010, 06:10 PM
Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words. Words!!!!! caching.... words words beer, words, and caching. Words, words words beer??? CACHING!!!! Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words; words beer words caching words words. Words words words beer words caching words words beer words caching beer beer words.

This has been a PSA of Hiram's viewpoint... :D

Except for some of EMS Daniels words, I think this was one best reads of this entire thread :)

WhereRWe?
08-19-2010, 06:32 PM
Except for some of EMS Daniels words, I think this was one best reads of this entire thread :)

I liked it, too! :D:D

pm28570
08-19-2010, 09:07 PM
Except for some of EMS Daniels words, I think this was one best reads of this entire thread :)

Agreed. :)

JustKev
08-20-2010, 07:30 AM
Except for some of EMS Daniels words, I think this was one best reads of this entire thread :)

....after all, you have to hunt through all those "words" to find the "beer".


:D

Hiram357
08-20-2010, 01:11 PM
I say the most with the fewest words... Hiram for president 2011!!!!!! :D:D:D:D:D:D

CARoperPhotography
08-20-2010, 06:37 PM
I have a hard job asking anyone for help. If I fell off a cliff while caching and ended up in a body cast, I probably would not even ask my wife to log my finds for the day - not even a note - FTF or not - I'd more likely wait until I could do so myself.

The real question is - would I let her continue on to the cache and crawl back to the car myself..... :D

If you fell off a cliff.... hmmm. Entertaining thought! Now I am smiling :D

WhereRWe?
08-20-2010, 06:50 PM
If you fell off a cliff.... hmmm. Entertaining thought! Now I am smiling :D

You hope Brdad falls off a cliff? Sheesh! :mad::confused::confused:

EvilHomer
08-20-2010, 08:20 PM
You hope Brdad falls off a cliff? Sheesh! :mad::confused::confused:

Maybe Brdad will take "Serious Tool Chadd" with him. :) :p:p:p

JFamilySebec
08-20-2010, 08:57 PM
If you fell off a cliff.... hmmm. Entertaining thought! Now I am smiling :D


Wow, that's harsh.

brdad
08-20-2010, 09:00 PM
Maybe Brdad will take "Serious Tool Chadd" with him. :) :p:p:p

No thanks, I don't want to risk dieing with the last words I hear being how I wasn't falling by his rules.:p

EMSDanel
08-20-2010, 09:37 PM
This thread's entry #124....you can't make this stuff up....had me truly/literally laughing out loud when I noticed the author's avitar. The name, and the words "the voice of reason" right next to the t-shirt that says "Your Cache Sucks". Why am I not surprised? And to brdad I'll just say this: if your two bodies were found at the bottom of the cliff......I'd be 100% certain you were the person who fell. The other would have been shoved. Have a wonderful weekend everyone!!!

Mapachi
08-20-2010, 09:52 PM
Personally, I prefer Bla to words. Bla is quicker to type as is ale.
Lets have an example shall we?
Bla, bla, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, bla, bla, ale, ale, ale, bla, bla, nano, bla, bla, ale, nano, ale, ale, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, bla, TB, bla, nano, tb, ale, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, gesundheit, bla, bla, nano, bla bla, bla!!!

JFamilySebec
08-20-2010, 10:05 PM
Personally, I prefer Bla to words. Bla is quicker to type as is ale.
Lets have an example shall we?
Bla, bla, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, bla, bla, ale, ale, ale, bla, bla, nano, bla, bla, ale, nano, ale, ale, bla, bla, ale, bla, bla, bla, TB, bla, nano, tb, ale, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, gesundheit, bla, bla, nano, bla bla, bla!!!


Haha! Love it -

dubord207
08-21-2010, 06:55 AM
Jim, Team Horowitz, please exercise your option to close this thread as the topic has long since run its course and the comments are as nasty as any I've ever seen on the site. Thank you.

Mapachi
08-21-2010, 07:32 AM
jim, team horowitz, please exercise your option to close this thread as the topic has long since run its course and the comments are as nasty as any i've ever seen on the site. Thank you.


bla, bla, bla, bla, nano, bla, bla, bla, bla, lawyer, bla, bla, bla, martini, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, more ice, bla, bla, micro, bla, bla, bla, bushwhack, bla, bla, bla, tick, bla, bla, bla, bla, bla, he, he, he, ha, ha, ha, ho, ho, ho, merry christmas!!

Mapachi
08-21-2010, 07:35 AM
No Bees were killed, while making the prior post!

Ekidokai
08-21-2010, 10:44 AM
Stick those nanos up your nose!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!