View Full Version : Groundspeak Ban



CARoperPhotography
11-08-2010, 04:29 PM
Just an update. Groundspeak upped my ban from 14 days to 30 days and will not give me a specific reason why or carry on a communication with me about it.

:mad:

dufzor
11-08-2010, 10:01 PM
When you are banned, can people still fine and log caches that you are owner of? I'm hoping to be in southern ME and find a couple of your hides next weekend.

brdad
11-08-2010, 10:03 PM
Yes, you can still log caches owned by someone who is banned.

dufzor
11-08-2010, 10:13 PM
TY! Let the quest begin!!!

NativeMainer
11-08-2010, 11:14 PM
Just an update. Groundspeak upped my ban from 14 days to 30 days and will not give me a specific reason why or carry on a communication with me about it.

:mad:


Curiousier and curiousier.

dufzor
11-08-2010, 11:44 PM
Curiousier and curiousier.

where is the national enquirer when u need answers :D:D:D

JustKev
11-09-2010, 06:51 AM
Having spent a number of years in a volunteer position in a help channel on IRC I can tell you that a ban being placed is generally because the person placing said ban either had justification or the perception of justification for their action. Attempts at communication that appear to the person you're trying to communicate with as being badgering, even if that wasn't your intention, can end up extending the ban. I am not arguing right or wrong on Groundspeak's part or yours, Chadd. Just stating the facts as I have seen them unfold when similar actions have been placed. Once they "have their back up", as the saying goes, you might just be better off to ride out the ban.

lexmano
11-09-2010, 01:23 PM
Having spent a number of years in a volunteer position in a help channel on IRC I can tell you that a ban being placed is generally because the person placing said ban either had justification or the perception of justification for their action. Attempts at communication that appear to the person you're trying to communicate with as being badgering, even if that wasn't your intention, can end up extending the ban. I am not arguing right or wrong on Groundspeak's part or yours, Chadd. Just stating the facts as I have seen them unfold when similar actions have been placed. Once they "have their back up", as the saying goes, you might just be better off to ride out the ban.

After the ban was imposed Chadd did make pointed inquiries and forceful comments regarding those he felt had complained to Groundspeak about him. After a couple of days he simply resigned himself to riding this out. However the effects of his initial reaction made their way to TPTB and bingo, now it is thirty days.

After the first couple days of shock and indignation, Chadd really has been a model citizen. It is unfortunate that his initial reaction may have worked to extend his ban.

That is unless they have received recent complaints about him. If they have received them, they probably are not justified. However they will not discuss with him who has complained or when the conduct complained about occurred. So he is really powerless to address the basis of the ban extension, if not based on his initial reaction. If he expresses outrage and frustration it can, in and of itself, justify further suspension in their minds.

So Chadd, Kev (a fellow JarHead) has basically given you good advice. Suck it up and take it, no matter how wrong it is!

team barbieri
11-09-2010, 01:53 PM
If you are a paying member you should have the right to at least know the circumstaces of why the ban is longer. Otherwise it is pointless, How do you correct your behavior if you dont know what it is you did wrong

CARoperPhotography
11-09-2010, 02:59 PM
Oh. I am sucking it up.

Since I am banned currently, I cannot access Geocaching.com which means that I cannot use their tools such as messages to other members or on the forums. However I did recieve a response from Jenn at Groundspeak. It simply said that private messaging via Geocaching.com or Groundspeak Forums were covered by their Terms of Usage.

Considering I cannot USE their website right now, I don't know how they think I could have sent private messages to anyone since the ban began.

My initial reaction to the ban was not even aimed or sent to Geocaching.com, or Groundspeak, as Ed speaks of. It was on facebook and to various friends. It did not use Geocaching.com as a means of conveying my anger. Hence, I do not know how they can sanction me for my expression of opinions not even through them. They can only control and sanction actions through their website.

After talking to another cacher who I am close with, I am starting to believe that this is actually someone setting me up. It isn't hard to fake an e-mail as if it went through the Geocaching website from me, and then send it onto the Powers that Be at Groundspeak. I guess we shall see if in early December, my 30 ban suddenly grows to a 60 or 90 day ban without explanation. If it does, you will see a different reaction than you are right now.... and probably from other cachers as well.

CARoperPhotography
11-09-2010, 03:02 PM
When you are banned, can people still fine and log caches that you are owner of? I'm hoping to be in southern ME and find a couple of your hides next weekend.

I have done significant amounts of cache repair on my caches in the last two weeks here in Southern Maine. Too bad I can't re-activate any of the disabled ones until after the ban lifts! :mad:

NativeMainer
11-09-2010, 11:58 PM
I have done significant amounts of cache repair on my caches in the last two weeks here in Southern Maine. Too bad I can't re-activate any of the disabled ones until after the ban lifts! :mad:

I was able to find one or two that had been disabled last week. I noticed that ProperWaas posted a note on one of your caches (Santa's Workshop) that it had been repaired but could not be reactivated because of the ban, and I was able to find it.

So, Duzfor, if you see one of Chadd's caches that have been temporarily disabled, check to see if a note has been posted about it's repair.

dubord207
11-10-2010, 07:30 AM
In the midst of a recent squabble with another cacher, that cacher received a supposed note from me in the middle of an exchange via geo.com ( one of the "noreply" messages you get when you email through the site) that was NOT from me! I'm am probably one of the least savvy computer operators playing the game so I have no idea how that could have happened but it was unnerving to say the least. Maybe brdad would know or explain how that sort of thing could happen.

So if it happened to me, it could happen to Chadd or anybody else.

Ed ( lexmano ) and myself are somewhat compelled due to our choice of careers to wonder why accusers can't be confronted. While Chadd certainly has his moments when many might conclude he's out of line, he has not done anything in his "public" posts on here and FB that were out of line since his suspension.

brdad
11-10-2010, 08:39 AM
If no one else has your password to geocaching.com, they are pretty hard pressed to be able to send an email through that account.

However, there are ways to "spoof" an email address. A lot of spammers do it, pretending to be a bank, Ebay, Paypal, etc. I'm sure someone willing could make up an email to look like it came from gc.com. I do not think it is real hard to do - I am not sure because I never have had the desire to do that, especially when it comes to cachers, this is just a silly game after all. If this person still has the email, Dan, perhaps gc.com should look at it and determine if it came from your account or was spoofed. They should be able to tell easily. When in doubt, change your password!

Chad's situation is a bit different in that PMs were sent, which I'm guessing would be much harder to spoof. I think the offender would need the password for his account to make that happen. I have another theory that is totally different, but I really don't care to bring it into this thread.

I will back up Dan's statement by saying I have not had to edit or delete any of Chad's posts lately. I hesitated allowing this thread after the last one went downhill so fast, it is good to see the discussion remain calm. Although I still wish all parties continuing to participate in this hoopla would grow up. :(

JustKev
11-10-2010, 08:54 AM
Ed ( lexmano ) and myself are somewhat compelled due to our choice of careers to wonder why accusers can't be confronted.

I'm not going to attempt to justify, clarify or defend either Groundspeak's actions or Chadd's. That is strictly between them.

In a generalized train of thought..... Those of us who believe in democracy and the ideals our country was founded on can have a hard time accepting things of this nature. If you look at the internet as a dictatorship it becomes a little clearer. Entity A developes a site on the internet. Entity A says this is how my site will run, these are my ideas. Along comes Entity B. Entity B wants to join Entity A's site and is allowed to. Suddenly, Entity A removes access to the site for Entity B without saying why. Here's where the dictatorship comes in. The site was founded by Entity A, not by Entities A and B in a joint or democratic venture. It's Entity A's ballgame and he/she makes *ALL* the rules. Our thoughts on what is right or wrong matter very little to Entity A.

With respect to the e-mail issue, the manipulation of e-mails on a "secure" site would fall under the heading of "hacked". As good as the security is on any internet site is, there's a hacker out there who is, at least for a little while, better. It could be Chadd. It could be Dan, who, being the somewhat intelligent person he is, claims to not be computer savvy enough to do so. It could be the Pope, or G.W.B. or ....... If Chadd has been a victim here of that sort of activity, it could very well come out in the wash, eventually. After all, look at the mass logging we experience recently. The internet is, and probably always will be, a magnet to people who use unscrupulous (sp) methods to get their point across or to just get their jollies.

JustKev
11-10-2010, 08:57 AM
Or "spoofed", like brdad says.

brdad
11-10-2010, 09:01 AM
Dan is correct here! It took me 15 minutes at the GSAK event to explain to Dan why he could not put his candy wrappers in the recycle bin on his desktop! :D:D
(Sorry Dan, I was set up!)


It could be Dan, who, being the somewhat intelligent person he is, claims to not be computer savvy enough to do so.

CARoperPhotography
11-10-2010, 04:38 PM
If no one else has your password to geocaching.com, they are pretty hard pressed to be able to send an email through that account.

However, there are ways to "spoof" an email address. A lot of spammers do it, pretending to be a bank, Ebay, Paypal, etc. I'm sure someone willing could make up an email to look like it came from gc.com. I do not think it is real hard to do - I am not sure because I never have had the desire to do that, especially when it comes to cachers, this is just a silly game after all. If this person still has the email, Dan, perhaps gc.com should look at it and determine if it came from your account or was spoofed. They should be able to tell easily. When in doubt, change your password!

Chad's situation is a bit different in that PMs were sent, which I'm guessing would be much harder to spoof. I think the offender would need the password for his account to make that happen. I have another theory that is totally different, but I really don't care to bring it into this thread.

I will back up Dan's statement by saying I have not had to edit or delete any of Chad's posts lately. I hesitated allowing this thread after the last one went downhill so fast, it is good to see the discussion remain calm. Although I still wish all parties continuing to participate in this hoopla would grow up. :(

Yes, they would need my password. However, even with the password, one cannot log into my account right now, or since my ban began on the 27th! So if I cannot log onto it to send PMs, how could anyone else do so?

You wouldn't even have to "hack" to fake a PM. Just a simple cut and paste job of the headers of a previous PM sent through Geocaching.com into a forwarded "e-mail" to Groundspeak could make it appear that I had sent PMs through their site.

brdad
11-10-2010, 04:59 PM
You wouldn't even have to "hack" to fake a PM. Just a simple cut and paste job of the headers of a previous PM sent through Geocaching.com into a forwarded "e-mail" to Groundspeak could make it appear that I had sent PMs through their site.

The thing there is, gc.com can still tell whether that email was originally sent through their servers. They know who was logged in and for how long and what they did while they were there.

CARoperPhotography
11-10-2010, 05:50 PM
I believe you Brdad. I know that. But if someone just just sending them or forwarding them these fake e-mails, who knows if they even BOTHER to check if I as logged in or where the email really came from? They seem to be pre-disposed to just believe without verification.

And as I said before. I cannot log in anyways right now so how would be sending messages through their site? Then again, I havent even tried to log in since the ban began so I guess I really do not know if I can't log in or not! ha ha

dubord207
11-10-2010, 06:02 PM
This thread isn't about me but so there's no doubt: somebody sent an email to a cacher who I was corresponding with via geo.com. The email was smack dab in the middle of an exchange and clearly intended to throw gas on a fire that was already going pretty good. And the subject was Chadd which certainly makes me wonder what or who was involved. Not pointing any fingers but this sort of thing suggests GS could be more forthcoming about what info they relied on in their "sentence."

CARoperPhotography
11-10-2010, 06:13 PM
This thread isn't about me but so there's no doubt: somebody sent an email to a cacher who I was corresponding with via geo.com. The email was smack dab in the middle of an exchange and clearly intended to throw gas on a fire that was already going pretty good. And the subject was Chadd which certainly makes me wonder what or who was involved. Not pointing any fingers but this sort of thing suggests GS could be more forthcoming about what info they relied on in their "sentence."

Looks like I have a very able, court appointed attorney ;-):o

lexmano
11-10-2010, 09:39 PM
Looks like I have a very able, court appointed attorney ;-):o

Much more affordable than money!:D

CARoperPhotography
11-10-2010, 09:45 PM
Yeah, well I have no money.

dubord207
11-11-2010, 07:44 AM
Will work for gin!!!

robt
11-11-2010, 08:40 AM
Dan, If you had the headers for the email that you say you did not send I could probably track it down to and ISP. To go any deeper I would need Dan's help as it would require a court order to get the actual sending location. The only issue with that is that unless the sender was really stupid it would probably not net anything much as I would hope that the person that would do that would not be dumb enough to send from their own home. But then their are alot of people people that think that email and web surfing leave fingerprints on both sides.

we3beans
11-11-2010, 10:58 AM
This thread isn't about me but...."

I thought with lawyers it is all about themselves....
:D

CARoperPhotography
11-11-2010, 01:41 PM
Will work for gin!!!

Sorry Dan. All I have in my cabinet right now is hald a bottle of Absinthe, some Saki (yup, Saki), and some 100% Pure Aguave Tequilla. No Gin :-(

I could use a beer right about now though. Where's Hiram???:D

CARoperPhotography
11-11-2010, 01:44 PM
Dan, If you had the headers for the email that you say you did not send I could probably track it down to and ISP. To go any deeper I would need Dan's help as it would require a court order to get the actual sending location. The only issue with that is that unless the sender was really stupid it would probably not net anything much as I would hope that the person that would do that would not be dumb enough to send from their own home. But then their are alot of people people that think that email and web surfing leave fingerprints on both sides.

That's funny... a court order? Since when did the Government ever need court orders since 9/11? ha ha

robt
11-11-2010, 04:07 PM
That's funny... a court order? Since when did the Government ever need court orders since 9/11? ha ha

But Chad, I am not a member of the government. :D:D:D You have to remember, there are 2 sets of rules, one for the Rulers and one for the rest of us poor schmucks :)

CARoperPhotography
11-11-2010, 04:37 PM
But Chad, I am not a member of the government. :D:D:D You have to remember, there are 2 sets of rules, one for the Rulers and one for the rest of us poor schmucks :)

Oh Rob. I do know that. But I don't consider myself a poor schmuck :-) I am one of the enlightened ones, not part of the blabbering masses.:cool:

Mapachi
11-11-2010, 11:05 PM
Big brother is watching.

robt
11-12-2010, 11:34 PM
Oh Rob. I do know that. But I don't consider myself a poor schmuck :-) I am one of the enlightened ones, not part of the blabbering masses.:cool:


I prefer people to think I am just a member of the blabbering masses, they expect less of me and are surprised or think I got a lucky guess when I slip up and show my true form. :) This way they ignore me and I can go on my merry way behind the scenes and under the radar.

CARoperPhotography
11-24-2010, 09:40 PM
Ban was rescinded this morning at approx. 11 AM EST.

Haffy
11-25-2010, 01:12 AM
You must be proud. Or why else would you post this important information?

brdad
11-25-2010, 09:02 AM
I'm guessing he's glad more than proud. And there is certainly plenty of less important stuff to be read in these forums, and you don't have to look hard. Just do a search for the word beer! :):p:D:D:p:)

WhereRWe?
11-25-2010, 09:10 AM
I'm guessing he's glad more than proud. And there is certainly plenty of less important stuff to be read in these forums, and you don't have to look hard. Just do a search for the word beer! :):p:D:D:p:)

Sheesh! That reminds me to post something in the "beer thread"... :D:D

surfacewarrior
11-25-2010, 07:49 PM
So S.T. what are you giving thanks for this thanksgiving? Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

CARoperPhotography
11-26-2010, 09:08 PM
So S.T. what are you giving thanks for this thanksgiving? Happy Thanksgiving everyone.

My sanity. :p

Mapachi
11-27-2010, 12:35 PM
So S.T. what are you giving thanks for this thanksgiving? Happy Thanksgiving everyone.


My insanity! :cool:

Mapachi
11-27-2010, 12:41 PM
I revel in my own quirkiness. As I relish the quirkiness of my fellow Geocachers.

Quirk on Geo-geeks!! (I love TAT's missing toes code!)

Mapachi
11-27-2010, 12:43 PM
Welcome back Darth Tool!