View Full Version : Hypothetically speaking....

02-10-2011, 10:56 PM
So..... before I start on the topic of which I am starting this thread for, I must say that I have found the antics on the forum (which I have heard much of second hand) over the last week to be highly entertaining. Frankly I could care less about who is or isn't on the board, or if there is a board or not. Banning me really had no effect on my life other than provide me with a decent amount of commiseration material with my fellow Geocaching friends down here in Southern Maine (you know, that part of Maine that the current board feels should be rightfully excluded from being on the board?) And I have been very busy with work, a relationship, and setting up my new Apple OSX Snow Leopard Server at my home, which I may or may not use for hosting a true open Maine Geocaching Forum (Heck that sounds good, I may just go to tonight and purchase that domain,

Enough said though, so on to my "hypothetical" post.

What would YOU, a Geocacher do if your local volunteer reviewer was showing malicious bias against you, by refusing to even review or initiate a review, let alone publish a cache that you had put a considerable amount of time, effort, thought, and money into placing?

How would YOU react if when you approached or contacted your local volunteer reviewer about this perceived bias, in a reasonable and cordial manner, your local volunteer reviewer fed you nonsensical doggie poo poo and told you that you must "contact Groundspeak to develop a review process"?

How would you feel if you waited and waited for your listing to appear as a newly published cache for 6 days, all the while watching other caches get published by said local volunteer reviewer, and still not hear a peep out of the reviewer. No note as to why he/she was not going to publish your cache. No e-mail regarding why or how your cache may violate current Groundspeak Cache Placement Guidelines. No answers to your questions.

So, let's here your views on this hypothetical but pertinent question.

And I thank you in advance for your posts.

farmer and wife and "G"
02-11-2011, 05:09 PM
First of all we don't know you or anyone else for that matter. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that knows us or has seen us caching or anywhere else for that matter. We are anti-social and lay low. I don't think that makes us bad people. I like to come here to read about what people are doing, caching or anything else. I guess I don't understand what problems with groundspeak has anything to do with this site. If I am wrong please explain it to me as I am always willing to learn. I hope you start your own site, and I am not saying that because I want you out of here. If you do I would sign up for it if you would have me. I can see where your site and this one will be very different and there are days I may want to read one or the other or both. I hope I would be welcomed at both sites. I don't think the 2 sites would ever mix but that is not a bad thing either. Where ever you go there is always a difference of opinion and I would rather go to a different site than rile people up. So I will continue to come here if I am welcome and I would join yours if I would be welcome there. Have a greart day everyone, spring caching is just around the corner!

02-11-2011, 05:39 PM
First of all we don't know you or anyone else for that matter. You'll be hard pressed to find anyone that knows us or has seen us caching or anywhere else for that matter.

I ran into you as we were going into a cache and you were coming out on Feb 20th last year.

02-11-2011, 05:44 PM
What does this site have to do with Groundspeak? Nothing officially however this site is for discussion of Geocaching in Maine and the hypothetical issue I raised is in Maine and is a Geocaching issue. So I would ask you in return, what is your point? Do you have anything constructive to add to my thread or are you attempting to hijack it?

02-11-2011, 06:20 PM
after reading your hypothetical post, I think that some people would think that this was not right and that some sort of communication would have been warranted. However, is this the whole story or is there more than is written in your post. If on the other hand there had been a history of bad placements, lack of maintenance or even poor communications, ( none of which I am suggesting has ever happened, this IS hypothetical ), than some might conclude otherwise.

There have and always will be 2 sides to every story and several ways to interpret them.

02-11-2011, 07:03 PM
Yes there is alwas two sides to every story. And no there is nothing else to add. Maybe if the hypothetical reviewer was to actually communicate with me, I could offer more. Would you like me to be brutally honest with it all or bite my tounge so as not to offense the sensibilities of the CURRENT board here?

02-11-2011, 07:08 PM
I have to agree with Team2Hunt; not enough information. What you present, if taken at face value, would definitely anger me if it happened the way you described.

farmer and wife and "G"
02-11-2011, 07:41 PM
I find it hard to believe this is hypothetical if you are as upset as you sound. If this happened to me I would fight it for all I was worth if I thought I was in the right. No I am not trying to hijack this thread. I have not posted much here so I may not know the proper way to do things but I did not think I had to start a new thread to express interest in you starting a new site seeing as you mentioned it in this very thread. I guess if i have nothing constructive to say it is time for me to bow out and let others try to say something you will be happy with.

farmer and wife and "G"
02-11-2011, 07:48 PM
To Maniac1957, (sorry I don't know how to add your comment here) yes you are one of the (lucky?) few. Also Haffy, Silverfox, and TRF. Wow sounds like my laying low needs swome work.

02-11-2011, 08:04 PM
To Maniac1957, (sorry I don't know how to add your comment here) yes you are one of the (lucky?) few. Also Haffy, Silverfox, and TRF. Wow sounds like my laying low needs swome work.

Sheesh! SilverFox? That name is familiar - I have an older couple with a dog in mind - but I can't find a "SilverFox" in the member list. I used to kid them about their dog - seems like they were training it to find caches. LOL!

farmer and wife and "G"
02-11-2011, 08:54 PM
We met a gentleman called Silverfox and his dog while we were talking to Haffy. Very nice people they both are. We learned a lot from them. That was in 9/05 at a cache that is now archived,time does fly.

02-11-2011, 11:35 PM
Yes, silverfox039 to be exact, and you met at the Shawmut Fishin Hole ( (GCQMPY) by Mapachi ( cache. He does not use his caching name on this site, he goes by the name of mgraves. He doesn't post much, but visited the site as recently as yesterday.

Any now back to your regularly scheduled hypothetical discussion.

02-12-2011, 12:55 PM
Picked up several of the signature items of Farmer and Wife and G. Be antisocial all you want. We will find you. There are game cameras you know.

02-12-2011, 01:56 PM
What I'm about to say may come across as obnoxious and very unlike me... but since we're being hypothetical it doesn't really matter :)

If, hypothetically, I was upsetting, annoying, irritating, etc. the people around me so much that Groundspeak got involved... I would wonder why.

If, hypothetically, it was a reviewer who had shown fairness (as far as I know) to every other cacher in the state except me... I would wonder why.

Then maybe I'd try to decide whether everyone around me is REALLY that bad, or if I am just a narcissistic fool.

Since we're being hypothetical, suppose I decided that it really is them and I'm practically perfect in every way. I would probably go find somewhere else to play. I hear is supposed to be the next big thing. When the site becomes outrageously popular I will have been vindicated.

That might not change whether or not my caches get posted. Logically (I'm not sure if I am very logical in this hypothetical situation, but suppose I am) I would follow my local reviewer's instructions and get Groundspeak involved.

If I decide that the local reviewer really is out to get me and has somehow gotten Goundspeak to participate in this egregious discrimination, I hear there are lots of other caching sites that may welcome me...

That's just what I would do if, hypothetically, I felt the way you hypothetically feel.

farmer and wife and "G"
02-12-2011, 05:31 PM
Well Ekidokai we did go wild and took our picture twice with cache cameras. Not saying which ones but haven't seen either one posted. That might be a good thing. (oops, I am hijacking now. Sorry).

02-12-2011, 05:52 PM
I searched Google images for farmer and wife and g and this is the first image, so that's the mental image I am using. You look like nice people.

farmer and wife and "G"
02-12-2011, 07:41 PM
That's probably a better image than the real thing so you should stick with it. Thanks for the laugh.

02-12-2011, 07:48 PM
That is good.

02-12-2011, 08:21 PM
Have you communicated directly with Tom? He's published over 300 hundred something of your caches hasn't he? While I haven't been caching forever, I have been for 3 years and have never heard a single negative word about him in his capacity as our Maine Reviewer. That said, I'm not sure that "calling him out" here will get your cache published. Maybe he's not sure how the Chirp caches work? I don't know but count me as one that would give him the benefit of the doubt before suggesting he's got a bullseye on you. And his lack of a response on this site shouldn't mean he's ducking you IMHO. Hope you get this cache published...sounds like fun!:)

02-13-2011, 08:37 AM
for bringing this thread back on track.

I once had an idea for a challenge cache, it was back when was making a few rule changes. After receiving the reviewers response that he was not sure it could be published, he asked if he could make sure and get back to me. It took several weeks, of which I did not mind, as it was only a cache to be published, not a decision that was life changing. I never got the cache published and my great idea, at least to me, has long since been forgotten. I still cache and enjoy all of the time I spend looking for them.

Remember, " complaining without a solution is just whining " and there is no whining in geocaching, just finds and DNF's.

02-13-2011, 11:05 AM
I have a had a few interactions with local volunteers, once involving a cache idea which has not previously been done and once with changes in policies infringing on one of my caches. In both cases I was unable to reach an agreement with the reviewer and was instructed to contact TPTB. In the case of the cache idea, the ruling was in my favor - however, I have not followed through with the cache and am undecided if I will or not. In the other case, I am out of luck so my cache has a slightly different value or purpose than what I originally intended. But it's still a good cache.

In any case, I found the reviewers I talked with to be fair and understanding, and I found the people I talked with at Groundspeak to be the same. Just because you don't get your way does not mean you are being mistreated.

02-13-2011, 08:00 PM
Has nothing to do with not getting my way. It has everything to do with the reviewer consciously refusing to even review the cache and make a decision. Once I have more correspondence on the issue I will post it for you all to see.

And as a side note, this reviewer has published several chirp caches already in Maine