View Full Version : FTF Fairyetale Round 2



CARoperPhotography
04-04-2012, 04:18 PM
Went to comment on brdad's comment in the thread and boom.... it was closed! Go figure....

http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?5643-FTF-Fariytale&p=79650#post79650

What's up with that?

Mainiac1957
04-04-2012, 04:45 PM
Yeah so was I...Comment that is.

Anyway, I do have an Android, and most of the time I do log my FTF's. Sometimes I have to rush off to work and I will do it later. The FTF hounds up here just aren't as high strung I guess or not so I would notice. I do know that many of the FTFers around the area don't have a smartphone. Oh well.

CARoperPhotography
04-04-2012, 05:05 PM
You know, I don't know if it is that we are high strung down here..... I just think we are a close group of friends who runs for caches when they are published. We never get upset with each other, but we sure like to tease and compete. And fortunately we all have smart phones. But I think what bothers me is when people purposely don't log an FTF quickly, even when they have the capability and know the importance to other cachers in the area. When someone who has over 5000 finds and has been caching for 6 years, gets an FTF and says in their log that they saw the notification on their smart phone and were in the area, and then they go and get the cache. Yet.... they know that they are in an area where competetive FTF runners are on the prowl on a regular basis......and still refuse to log quickly and wait five hours.... that is a shame.

I regularly run to NH down here for FTFs. Merenner and I saw several caches sit unfound for a week outside of Alton NH in the Belknap mountains so we ran over early on a Saturday morning. I didnt have cell service until I got up onto the peaks where the caches were located and then I did have service, so luckily I was able to log on location. But as we were driving out, a truck was coming towards us and on the plates it said BOATERS. Like many Geocachers, this person had vanity plates just as I have SERIOUS on my plates. And I recognized the name BOATERS from looking at caches in NH. SO I pulled over, rolled down my window and said "Just so you know, you're now running for second to finds...". The driver in the truck turns and looks at the two other people, and then turns back and smirks and says, "We have no idea what you are talking about. We were just going for a hike. However, it appears that we forgot something back home, so we will turn around and head out once you drive by". Obviously, they were cachers running for the FTF but decided to turn around and head home. They never did even bother with the caches once they knew we had found them.

I am not a cacher who won't bother if I am already on my way and close by, but sometimes if the cache is found, I may change my plan a bit and grab other caches before I get there, or go run an errand first or adjust my priorities.

EvilHomer
04-04-2012, 05:05 PM
So I take a vacation from full time caching and something as STUPID as this pops up? WOW! I'll post my FTF when I am good and damn ready. If you have an issue with that say it to my face and not in some snarky log post. Really people is this what this passtime has become: A bunch of juvenile techno geeks whining that people aren't INSTANTLY logging FTFs? I can't really post what I really feel because it would get this thread locked and tossed, but you can use your imaginations.

CARoperPhotography
04-04-2012, 05:09 PM
Wow EvilHomer. You really ARE evil ;-)

Yeah, I'm posting a snarky log. You're right. Probably because I have never met you, and probably never would, and I'm not driving up North to say it to your face, unless you pay for my gas. I will be up that way for the next two days finishing my Delorme Challenge grids though. You can watch my SPOT map page and see where I am at every ten minutes if you feel the need to track me down. In that case, I'll politely tell you what I think. And then buy you a case of Duff Semi-Imported beer ;-)

EvilHomer
04-05-2012, 11:47 PM
Point PROVEN.

CARoperPhotography
04-06-2012, 09:34 AM
You had a point?

Team2hunt
04-07-2012, 09:21 AM
I do not own a smart phone..( no comments from the peanut gallery ) but I do sometimes hike. If I were to come across an FTF in the woods, it would be some time before I would be home to log the cache. That might well be more than 5 hours. Not everyone plays the same way, and with the same technology. I cache because I enjoy it, and I will always grab the find. If I can find it....:p

CARoperPhotography
04-07-2012, 12:13 PM
Team2Hunt. Do you own a normal cell phone? my number is 641-5711. You can feel free to call me next time from the trail that you happen upon an FTF and I'll happily post a note on the cache listing so people know it has been found. There are actually several cachers down here that will call myself, or others when they get a FTF so we can post a note on the page for them since they don't have a smartphone.

I got two FTFs on my 1000+ mile, 30 hour (no sleep) trip cleaning up the Northern Woods Delorme Grids yesterday. One was On the Way to the K.I. http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=80814bd2-b067-4121-b17e-9d6da8102cbf
The other was Dagget Erratic http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?guid=70a3194e-18a6-4571-b753-31d28105cb83

Both I logged on site even though I was quite far from civilization.

surfacewarrior
04-09-2012, 02:36 PM
The funniest part of this complete conversation is the large number of Geocachers who do not come onto this site or chose to just not read it. They will not even know that this is an issue to anyone because all they know is the rules and requirements required by groundspeak and geocaching.com. other than that it seems to be a non-issue to most Geocachers.brdad your idea did sound like a way to play another game within the game though.

CARoperPhotography
04-09-2012, 03:49 PM
Hey Surfacewarrior.... I found one of your signature cards in Dickey's Bridge cache in Delorme Grid 66 last Thursday afternoon. Took some pics of it in the cache. Very classy and nicely done! Just thought I'd tell you!

surfacewarrior
04-09-2012, 06:53 PM
Thanks. DId you get up to Blacks river Bridge on grid 70. that one is not required but it was fun to do last sept. not sutre about this time of year though.

CARoperPhotography
04-09-2012, 07:43 PM
No, we didn't. Honestly, it was a purely grid run... we did over 1000+ miles (5 tanks of gas in the Jeep) in 30 hours to hit 27 total needed grids. I didn't sleep in 31 hours..... we got two FTFs long distance on the trip, and tomorrow I go downeast to get my last remaining grids.

brdad
04-09-2012, 08:13 PM
That's exactly why I prefer not to rush to find caches - you often are passing by some great caches just to accomplish another goal. When Lee and I did some of the maps in Northern Maine, there were only three caches available on Map 56. Northern Maine Woods Virtual Tour #5, Northern Maine Woods Virtual Tour #6, and Norway Bluff. At the time there were many cachers trying to finish the Delorme Challenge, and most cachers only did the Virtual Tour #5 because it was quick and easy. We did skip Norway Bluff, but we could not pass up Virtual Tour #6, and it turned out to be one of the most memorable and rewarding spots of the trip - it was and probably still is a great spot. But now, the cache is archived - and no physical caches are allowed there. We were glad Norway Bluff was still active last year when we finally made it back up to find that one.

That's not to say we don't have to pass caches up in our travels that we want to do, there is only so much time in a day.

surfacewarrior
04-09-2012, 08:21 PM
Right on. I have given myself until the end of sept to finish it up. I am planning most of my summer camping trips this summer to areas of the state that I need to get those pages. if you are going for page 24 Headed Down East? seems to be missing but Hale storm is there (log was soaked so I had to put the only paper I had in it last week. I had left my bag in the jeep due to treating it like a PNG while leaving geopooch in the Jeep because it is a graveyard.)

CARoperPhotography
04-09-2012, 09:02 PM
Good to know! I am headed downeast....

I would have liked to have grabbed
GC23ENF http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?wp=GC23ENF

Little Black-The Meandering River Earthcache while in 66 (since it was still unfound after two years!!! ) but we were rushing to get back down to certain FTFs... yes we may have been rushing but we had the time of our life navigating at break neck speed and finding our ways through the dirt and mud roads of the North Woods!

Also, we wanted FTF on a special Earthcache called Daggett Erratic http://coord.info/GC3FGMG

It was put out by DSKG and is at Daggett's Rock, the largest erratic/rock in Maine. It was sort of a joke cache in a way because Lexmano and DSKG are brother in laws, and Lex's last name is Dagget. If you want a good laugh, read my edited log.... its so long I had to split it in half with the second half in a note posted afterwards!

Oh and by the way, we logged both FTFs on site with iPhone :p

brdad
04-10-2012, 06:33 AM
I'm just realizing - is it only the FTFs you feel the need to log from your phone?

CARoperPhotography
04-11-2012, 02:45 PM
Brdad:

Nope, it is not only FTFs I feel the need to log from my phone. I will log finds from my phone if I am just grabbing a cache here or there while around town or when I am grabbing a random cache. But when I am on a day of caching, I log everything when I get home, except for an FTF that I may get. Sometimes I log field notes to the Geocaching.com website from the phone because I can more easily type into the iPhone than my PN-60w. This is especially true on Earthcaches or Virtuals. Usually when I grab a trackable, I log it immediately on the iPhone or as soon possible when I may not have reception on site, with the iPhone.

Yesterday, while on a trip through Downeast Maine picking up the remainder of my Delorme Challenge Map grids, we came upon a cache which hadn't been found after being published three weeks prior. It was Cemetary View, and in the Lubec area : http://coord.info/GC3EGCY

We made the find, I let Marcipanek keep the FTF prize Geocoin since he likes that stuff, and I noticed I was picking up Canadian Data cell phone service roaming. Well, what did I do? I logged the cache on my iPhone anyways, regardless of the extra cost. For me, it is principle, and courtesy. I guess what I am getting from most people who comment on this topic is that although they admit realizing that FTFs are very important for a large amount of cachers, they would rather be stubborn and claim that because they don't have a certain technology (in this "high tech" game that we play) that this absolves them from being courteous, just because that is "how they play" the game. There are a lot of courteous things that a lot of us do in caching, and a lot that we don't, but when we acknowledge that we are not being courteous not because of ignorance, but because of choice, it is a bit disconcerting.

brdad
04-12-2012, 06:29 AM
You're not going to convince everyone it's a matter of courtesy, and I have not heard any argument that has convinced me yet - though it does make sense to log any cache (FTF or not) in a fair amount of time. If anything, it's reinforced my thought that part of intrigue about FTFs is the excitement one feels as they rush to the cache. Making everyone log immediately could even be considered (for lack of a better term) dumbing down the sport, making it easier for people to only go after a cache if they will be FTF. What's next, whoever posts a note on the cache page stating their intentions to go for FTF should be the only person to go after it?

As I've stated twice, I think your best bet is to make your own FTF race group and make up any rules you like for that group.

We all have our ideas about what the unwritten standards are in this game, whether it might be long logs, nice logs, quick logs, maintaining other's caches, etc., but as surfacewarrior stated in an earlier post, the majority of cachers do not visit these or the national forums, they are just out there to enjoy a cache hunt when they have time, and are not aware of these standards.

UMainah
04-12-2012, 07:26 AM
Brdad:

Nope, it is not only FTFs I feel the need to log from my phone. I will log finds from my phone if I am just grabbing a cache here or there while around town or when I am grabbing a random cache. But when I am on a day of caching, I log everything when I get home, except for an FTF that I may get. Sometimes I log field notes to the Geocaching.com website from the phone because I can more easily type into the iPhone than my PN-60w. This is especially true on Earthcaches or Virtuals. Usually when I grab a trackable, I log it immediately on the iPhone or as soon possible when I may not have reception on site, with the iPhone.

Yesterday, while on a trip through Downeast Maine picking up the remainder of my Delorme Challenge Map grids, we came upon a cache which hadn't been found after being published three weeks prior. It was Cemetary View, and in the Lubec area : http://coord.info/GC3EGCY

We made the find, I let Marcipanek keep the FTF prize Geocoin since he likes that stuff, and I noticed I was picking up Canadian Data cell phone service roaming. Well, what did I do? I logged the cache on my iPhone anyways, regardless of the extra cost. For me, it is principle, and courtesy. I guess what I am getting from most people who comment on this topic is that although they admit realizing that FTFs are very important for a large amount of cachers, they would rather be stubborn and claim that because they don't have a certain technology (in this "high tech" game that we play) that this absolves them from being courteous, just because that is "how they play" the game. There are a lot of courteous things that a lot of us do in caching, and a lot that we don't, but when we acknowledge that we are not being courteous not because of ignorance, but because of choice, it is a bit disconcerting.
This game is only as "high-tech" as the individual player plays it as. Some people play with smartphone, MANY don't have smartphones. Also, if you think most people are going to call you, of all people, to have you post a note on a cache, thing again. They aren't being discourteous, any FTF-hound I've known/seen will log as soon as they can. Whether that's in the field or after a day's work once they get to a computer, is fine with me. Heck, you can play this game without any sort of electronic technology in the field if you want.

firefighterjake
04-12-2012, 09:03 AM
I'm relatively low tech . . . hell even with my Palm Pilot I still most often print out maps and write down the coords . . . and I typically jot down a few random thoughts on the caches I find in a note pad. While I will not purposefully delay entering any found caches I also will not go out of my way to log any caches found -- FTF or otherwise -- until I am back in front of my computer and have the time. This may mean a delay of a few minutes, a few hours or in some cases a few days if I am logging while on a camping trip.

That said . . . I rarely go out of my way just to log a FTF.

It's the way I play the game . . . to each their own.

CARoperPhotography
04-12-2012, 12:22 PM
Brdad, I don't know what your point is about:

" What's next, whoever posts a note on the cache page stating their intentions to go for FTF should be the only person to go after it?"

That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. You are taking the topic at hand, and twisting it as much as possible.

I don't see how hard it is for someone to make a phone call to a friend who can log a note on a page, if they have gotten FTF so as to alert anyone else that the find has been made. Smart phone or no smart phone, 99.9% of cachers have the ability to do that one simple step very quickly and by refusing to do that, without being ignorant of the importance of FTFs, then you are purposely choosing to be discourteous.

It's funny, I have taken a lot of heat on this particular forum for my views, and accuses of being some very unkind words, yet when it comes to caching courtesy, no one else here seems to care. There is still a lof of hypocrisy on these forums, with the old excuse to cover one's ass " it's how I choose to play the game". If someone came on here and told you that they pick up and take home every cache that they find after they log it because even though they enjoy Geocaching, yet think that objects left in the woods, were litter.... would you attack them here? But what if they use the disclaimer "but thats how I play the game..."

That phrase is your little cover up, sort of like Bill Clinton's "That depends on what the definition of the word "is", is". Come on....

brdad
04-12-2012, 01:33 PM
Brdad, I don't know what your point is about:

" What's next, whoever posts a note on the cache page stating their intentions to go for FTF should be the only person to go after it?"

That has nothing to do with what we are discussing. You are taking the topic at hand, and twisting it as much as possible.

My point is, there is so much people try to do do make this game easier. Each of us will have varying opinions on which things make the game easier in a positive or negative way. For me, if the reason you want people to log FTFs at the cache site is so that you don't have to trouble yourself going to a cache that's been found, possibly giving you ore time to get FTF on another cache, you're trying to make the game easier for you. My suggestion to log your intentions before heading out is ridiculous - after all, the allure of the FTF is to get there before other people and if you'd expect no one else to go for it it really would not be a race. But to me, expecting everyone to alert you immediately that they FTF'd a cache is nearly as silly.

And I'm with you with the "let people cache the way they want to" argument. I've stated several times on this site and elsewhere there is no way everyone can cache totally the way they want to and yet have everyone else be happy. We all have to find ways to cache that fits within the ways other people cache.

CARoperPhotography
04-12-2012, 02:03 PM
If I log my intentions before heading out..... that will make people log it quicker? Honestly, that's the dumbest thing I have ever heard. So if I write a note on a cache in Bangor three hours before I leave Kennebunk, you're telling me that EvilHomer is going to go and either not find the cache so I can have FTF or he is actually going to log it quick or let me know that he has gotten the FTF? This is absurd. There is enough competition for FTFs around that when you log your intention on a cache, someone else is gonna run out and grab it before you can or race you. I think what you guys dont understand is that when we run for an FTF we are dropping everything else and spending MONEY (gas) to run for a cache that hasn't been found yet. That's how we cache. I guess I'll just start disregarding courtesy when it comes to everything else in caching as well. You've all pretty much told me that you will outright refuse to notify anyone when you get an FTF regardless of whether you have the capability to or not. Good to know. I'll enjoy caching in Bangor the next time I am there.....

brdad
04-12-2012, 02:06 PM
Here is a related thread that is a blast from the past:

http://www.geocachingmaine.org/forum/showthread.php?1076-Timeliness-in-logging

CARoperPhotography
04-12-2012, 02:21 PM
Interesting. Seems that everyone thinks that you should log as soon as you possibly can... and YOU Brdad ;-) seem to be the one jerk who wants to purposely make people run for a cache, all the while knowing it has been found, wasting gas and possibly disregarding something else important..... good to know.

By the way.... got an FTF last night 175 miles from home: Jackman Nano at 11:11pm. Didn't log from site since there was no cell service but logged as soon as I had data service in Skowhegan.

I'm starting to think this thread is done. I feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall with some people around here...... so unless anyone has anything more... I'll probably close it down.

JustKev
04-13-2012, 03:56 AM
Until such time as a strict guideline is publish regarding how fast and what method is to be used to log an FTF then arguing over how fast it should be logged becomes an argument of opinion and is, without a doubt, an unwinnable argument from either side. What you consider courtesy...logging the FTF within the absolute shortest time....others don't consider a courtesy because it's not as important to them as it is to you. You're willing to take one aspect of your hobby and put it ahead of other considerations in your life and that's the way you play the game. If we all had to play this 100% right down to the letter I bet there would be vastly fewer cachers out there. Just because someone doesnt' share your opinion on how fast the FTF should be logged and doesn't share your enthusiasm for playing the game the way you are with FTFs doesn't make them a jerk. Looking at things from a different point of view doesn't make anyone a jerk, even if the guideline was established. What if I were to consider anyone posting spoiler comments or pictures a jerk? Would that stop you from posting spoiler comments or pictures?

Keep in mind, what you consider important doesn't have to be what we all consider important. If you consider it a courtesy, that's fine for you. If I don't consider it a courtesy at the same level as you, it doesn't mean I'm any more or less a jerk than you are.

CARoperPhotography
04-13-2012, 09:04 AM
Wow... so what you are telling me here, is that what one person considers rude, or inconsiderate, isn't so if another doesn't consider it so? In life there are general rules we all follow that although they may not be laws set forth by a Government, we all follow them, such as manners, and courtesy. What would you do if you saw a man purposely close a door instead of holding it open, for an old lady? I'm really dumbfounded at the attitude I am seeing coming out of many of you on this topic. Look at the old thread that brdad posted and compare that thread with this one. What happened to the attitudes of caching? It's like in 6 years, people have regressed. You should be ashamed.

JustKev
04-13-2012, 12:31 PM
I'm not ashamed. I merely stated that what your opinion of courtesy is doesn't necessarily fit in with what others consider courtesy. I have previously stated and I will state here again that I log FTF's as soon after we find them as possible. I don't have a smart phone so it might take a few minutes up to a few hours before the log hits the site.....that's courtesy. Your calling others jerks and saying I should be ashamed because my opinion differs from yours would be something I consider discourteous in the extreme. Will I lose sleep over it tonight? Absolutely not. This is a game to be played for fun. If I have to play it by your rules and have less fun, I quit. Fortunately, for me, your rules pertain only to you so I'll cache on. I'm sure you won't stop caching just because I don't have a smart phone and absolutely refuse to use my minutes on my tracfone just to make sure you don't accidentally run for a no longer available FTF....it's the nature of the game. Run for FTF and get second or later to find. It's GEOCACHING!

CARoperPhotography
04-13-2012, 12:38 PM
SO what others call courtesy, is up to interpretation to fit one's own rules in life?

JustKev
04-13-2012, 12:54 PM
I'm done. I won't rise to your bait.

surfacewarrior
04-13-2012, 01:03 PM
I think what some are saying is that this addiction of ours is different things to different folks. The first year I was geocaching (beginning my 3rd now) I use paper logs and a Geomate JR., I did not even know this site or the forums really existed (found this site by an article in the KJ one sunday) I did not have a smart phone and I still am not sure how to log a cache from the one I just upgraded to. I don't do a lot of FTF's because I would rather hike to the top of a mountain for a cache than drive into augusta to find a light pole on the walmart parking lot. but to each their own. ST I don't think anyone intentionaly delay's logging a FTF and like I said in an earlier posting I am betting over 75% of the geocachers do not even know this is an issue because they don't follow the posting here or the other forums. Some day my schedule might let me attend an event to get more info on how to do some of the "high tech" (at least for me) stuff but for the most part, geocaching is an excuse to (1) go for a relaxing Hike with Dog in the woods (2) see/find things Trails/waterfalls/historic locations that I did not know existed (3) see parts of the state i have never been to and (4) gives me something to do when visiting folks out of town while the wife does most of the visiting. I did go after a FTF once and got it but you guy's had 3 years to get there before me so I am not sure It was a real race since after I got home that night and logged it no one else hase been up to "Harrow mountain fault" yet. after my last check I am still the one and only person to log it.
I think as far as FTF's go with the earthcache event coming to Maine this year WE as maine cachers should make an effort to get all of the FTF's for every earthcache in the state. I Geocache alone with geopooch most of the time so I am looking into the ones I can do with him and not really need a buddy to do i.e. kayak or canoe down a remote river alone. The ones in baxter are sort of out due to I will not leave geopooch at home to hike in the woods as much as he likes his hikes.maybe this should be another thread though.

CARoperPhotography
04-13-2012, 02:40 PM
Some people in this thread have openly admitted that they WILL delay logging a find on an FTF just to make others run for it....

surfacewarrior
04-13-2012, 03:57 PM
true but it seems like the same thing was going on in '06 maybe even more. should the rules change due to technology has advaced. or maybe only people with the capability to log remotely get a 24 hour advance notice on new caches being published and if there is over a certain amount of time say one hour between signing the paper log and the sight log then that person will not get the advace notice's any longer,after a couple of warning though. Groundspeak/ geocaching.com could charge extra for that 24 hour notice , extra $20 to be a Super Premium member or something like that. sorry just joking, I've been home sick and this is the only entertainment Ive had for two day's. ST congrats on finishing all the maps on your delorme challenge.

CARoperPhotography
04-13-2012, 04:47 PM
I guess what it boils down to, and I am probably repeating myself here, because most people here really do not actually read what someone says, but instead makes their own interpretation of it... is that everyone here realizes the importance of FTFs to many cachers yet they go out of their way to explain why they will refuse to log an FTF quickly. I do plenty of things when caching, for others like doing maintenance on broken caches, or replacing wet logs, or giving cache owner much better cords... I do it out of courtesy, not because it is a rule of the game. This game has almost no rules except for the placement guidelines.

I wish there was a super premium membership!!!!!

Thanks for the comment on me finishing my grids! I officially met with Team2Hunt last night, and over Allagash beers, I went through the cache, signed the log, and took some photos and had a great time with Team2Hunt sharing caching stories!