View Full Version : FTF Question



Haffy
08-01-2005, 04:54 PM
Just curious as to what others think about a situation that happened yesterday. I went caching in the Boothbay Harbor area yesterday and on the way down I thought I would get a cache that had just been listed.Well upon arriving at the cache site and finding the cache I opened the logbook to find that I was indeed the FTF or so I thought. So my entry went something like thanks for the FTF and I left my Maine note that I usually leave in caches lately and took nothing. I get home after all day caching and find that another cacher claims the FTF,,,,Hmmmm I wonder. So I email the other cacher and he said that he found the cache but didn't open it or sign the logbook and his excuse was that a 4whlr came by and he decided to not give the site away. What are your thoughts on this? I'm just curious. 1 more FTF isn't going to make much difference to me and he said in his log on the website that it was his first FTF. :confused:

WhereRWe?
08-01-2005, 05:05 PM
I found the log entry, and the other cacher is known to us somewhat - has been to a couple of events and has placed a couple of good caches. Don't believe he'd lie about it.

:( :( :(

Trezurs*-R-*Fun
08-01-2005, 05:14 PM
......So I email the other cacher and he said that he found the cache but didn't open it or sign the logbook and his excuse was that a 4whlr came by and he decided to not give the site away.

My opinion, the only way to prove you were there is to sign the log. His excuse is poor, if I go to a cache, Owlheads delight for example but there are to many people about so I cannot safely get to the cache and sign the log, then I shouldn't get to claim a find. In his opinion I should be able to make the claim simply because I was close.

This would truly help out a geocachers numbers because we could all drive by the site and make the claim we were at least close but didn't want to give the location away by parking the car.

Well, like I said just my opinion and like the old cliche',;) opinions are like__________, we all have one.

dí76
08-01-2005, 05:25 PM
I agree I think that you have to sign the log. I was close to a couple over the winter. Should I log them as found. Who would know the difference. And If he didn't open the cache how does he know he was there before anyone. Just because he was the first to log on the computer

WhereRWe?
08-01-2005, 05:37 PM
I agree I think that you have to sign the log. I was close to a couple over the winter. Should I log them as found. Who would know the difference. And If he didn't open the cache how does he know he was there before anyone. Just because he was the first to log on the computer

You've mad an excellent point. How did he know he was FTF if he didn't open the log. First to log on the geocaching.com web site doesn't matter.

I've been exchanging emails with Haffy - I sort of defend this guy since he's known to us somewhat - but with this point, I have to agree with Haffy.

How does the guy know that Haffy hadn't ALREADY logged FTF in the log book before he got there (unless he was there the day before...)

OK - Score a FTF for Haffy. :D :D :D

The G Team
08-01-2005, 05:42 PM
I have to go along with the majority--you've GOTTA sign the log! Muggles generally go away after a while--why not wait a few minutes--there is no way you can claim FTF w/o opening the cache--logging on the computer has nothing to do with it. Score another FTF for Haffy, IMHO.

Haffy
08-01-2005, 05:44 PM
Gee thanks guys....lol It's not about the numbers remember?

WhereRWe?
08-01-2005, 05:46 PM
Gee thanks guys....lol It's not about the numbers remember?

It's ALWAYS about the numbers.


:D :D :D

brdad
08-01-2005, 05:53 PM
I say it's not a find unless you sign the logbook as well (excepting extraordinary circumstances like finding a destroyed cache and having proof what you found was indeed the cache). and, as was mentioned, you have no way of knowing if you are FTF if you didn't open the cache to log it. Part of the hunt in caching is being descreet and signing the log.

As far as claiming as a FTF, I think that's up to you. The only time that has happened to me is on the Indian Trail (http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache_details.aspx?ID=83744) (GCGJYB) by ds04428 (http://www.geocaching.com/profile/default.asp?A=102032) (1.5/1.5) in which the first cacher to locate the cache couldn't get it open. I came later and my son opened it right up! I checked my FTF list, and I didn't claim it as one. But, I'd have nothing against anyone else claiming it..

tat
08-01-2005, 05:55 PM
When I don't sign the log, I don't log the find!

If timing is important, (and it must be important to both of you or you would not be discussing who was first), then there has to be a standard for determining who was first. Clearly, signing the log is the only reliable way standard.

One time, I climbed to the top of a mountain and waited and waited for some artsy type photographer to leave. Just when I thought they would leave, out came lunch! Not even 20 feet from the cache. Posted a DNF (or note?). A few weeks later, i went back and, of course, had no trouble "finding" it.

On another cache, I was able to see the cache, but had to walk another mile before I could actually touch it! Seeing it was certainly not finding it!

The way I look at it, if it's worth finding, it's worth doing right and worth going back again!

Haffy
08-01-2005, 05:56 PM
I guess really the whole issue here was not really the FTF issue, it was just the fact of the find period and not even opening the container and signing the logbook.

Haffy
08-01-2005, 05:59 PM
I can also remember the one and only time I didn't sign the logbook to claim a find and I mentioned that at an event once. Boy did I get some crap for that,.....lol Never again have I claimed credit for a cache and not signed the logbook. You didn't have to tell me that one twice Brdad....lol

Haffy
08-01-2005, 06:04 PM
I think I have a clear conscience now about claiming a FTF. Even if I wasn't actually the first to find it.... I guess.

Sabby
08-01-2005, 06:06 PM
I am with you too. In order to claim a find you have to sign the log book, or as brdad points out, in the case of a destroyed cache, prove that you were there with a picture. Just my 2 cents.

WhereRWe?
08-01-2005, 06:42 PM
I guess really the whole issue here was not really the FTF issue,

Yes it is... LOL!

You wouldn't have even mentioned it if it wasnt a FTF! LOL!

Haffy
08-01-2005, 07:11 PM
On the contrary to what you may think it really was the issue of signing the logbook and claiming the find. ;)

WhereRWe?
08-01-2005, 07:17 PM
On the contrary to what you may think it really was the issue of signing the logbook and claiming the find. ;)

Sorry. I was just noting THE SUBJECT OF THE THREAD.

(Let it go, Haffy.....) :( :( :(

Team Nirvana
08-01-2005, 08:18 PM
To me, signing the log trumps logging it on the web. In my last hide, I specifically left something special in the cache for the FTF. I've even gone out and found caches that were not registered yet on the web. I feverously went to the cach to find the log signed. Even though I was first to log on the web, I did not get the first to find. In the courtroom, the edivence would go to the log because anyone could claim on the web they got there first. Its not about numbers....... however, the individual claiming they were the first to find is making it about numbers. That's my vote!

Mainiac1957
08-01-2005, 08:28 PM
you no sign log, you no get find. End of discussion!! :eek:

covefarm
08-01-2005, 08:43 PM
I thought that I got my FIRST FTF tonight, but upon opening the log I found that indeed another geocacher beat me to it, so it doesn't seem to me that you can assume to be FTF if you haven't opened the log.

Team2hunt
08-01-2005, 08:54 PM
Find the cache and sign the log. Done. Except. The team found " Super Duper Underwater Hydro Cache 2.0" this last weekend. The cache is under 10 feet of water, and hadn't been logged in almost a year. The container was filled with water and we didn't even try to open. We took a picture of the cache with my navigator, ( posted on the website ) to be able to log the find. There are special circumstances, a 4X4 isn't one of them. Practice stealth or wait, or don't claim. Also let's mention a DNF or a note. If you attempt the find it's a DNF. Which means if you walk the trail with your GPS'r, that's an attempt. The geocaching DNF god's are watching. These are simple rules to follow, otherwise it IS about the numbers, and overnight the team claims, 171,000 finds. LOL and not a single DNF (bigger) LOL :D :D Chalk it up Haffy.

Cache'n Jacksons
08-01-2005, 09:54 PM
You didn't happen to see a pair of glasses while down getting the underwater cache did you? :cool:

I'm careful about logging DNF's... it depends on if I think the cache is really missing or it's just my incompetence. If I'm 90% sure I'm in the right spot and the hint indicates the right place yet I can't find it, I'll log a DNF, which will alert the owner that they should check on it. Otherwise I'll not say anything or post a note saying I will return.

covefarm
08-01-2005, 10:05 PM
You didn't happen to see a pair of glasses while down getting the underwater cache did you? :cool:

I'm careful about logging DNF's... it depends on if I think the cache is really missing or it's just my incompetence. If I'm 90% sure I'm in the right spot and the hint indicates the right place yet I can't find it, I'll log a DNF, which will alert the owner that they should check on it. Otherwise I'll not say anything or post a note saying I will return.
If you post a DNF and the cache is really there, you can go back at a later date and post a find once you find it, right???

FFFarmer
08-01-2005, 11:40 PM
You have to open the cache and sign the log. How do you know you have found the cache if you don't open it? Haffy this one is yours as far as I am concerned. I got a FTF today and was so excited I went back so I could be #2TF also.
Mrs. FFFarmer and one of the FFFarmers daughters agree, they even said "that's dumb, why wouldn't you open the cache?"

attroll
08-02-2005, 01:08 AM
Well correct me if I am wrong. But the purpose of the log book is for the cache owner to to verify it with the internet logs to verify that the person that logged the cache on the internet has actually been to the cache. I don't think this ever gets done but I thought that was the intent for the logbook.

brdad
08-02-2005, 05:51 AM
You didn't happen to see a pair of glasses while down getting the underwater cache did you? :cool:

I'm careful about logging DNF's... it depends on if I think the cache is really missing or it's just my incompetence. If I'm 90% sure I'm in the right spot and the hint indicates the right place yet I can't find it, I'll log a DNF, which will alert the owner that they should check on it. Otherwise I'll not say anything or post a note saying I will return.

Hows a cache owner like myself supposed to have any fun if people look for my cache which is there, and they don't log a DNF!?!?!?!? :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

TwoMaineiacs
08-02-2005, 07:58 AM
CoveFarm - I sure hope that logging a DNF and then finding it later counts. We returned three times to a pretty complicated multi cache before finally finding it. For us, conquering that DNF was fun but also knowing other people were getting DNFed made us feel a bit better. ;)

Anne / TwoMaineiacs

Trezurs*-R-*Fun
08-02-2005, 09:06 AM
TwoMaineiacs
For us, conquering that DNF was fun but also knowing other people were getting DNFed made us feel a bit better. ;)

I agree, I do practice logging a DNF even on a multi that may take several days (Thanks Team Nirvana ;) ). Like you said, it's nice to know that I'm not the only person that took so long, or couldn't find it on my first attempt.

Logging a DNF is also a good indicator to the cache owner if something has gone awry with the cache. Multi DNF and there is a good chance the cache is missing or moved or some other calamity has come to it.

Also DNF with intermingled "finds" (Thanks Brdad :p ) may indicate a really good hides thus I will spend more time looking.

DNFs are too me every bit as important as logged finds and I also believe (and let me go on believing) that a DNF is not a statement of how bad a cacher a person is rather it is an indicator of how good a cacher a person is.

Cache On!!!

dí76
08-02-2005, 12:18 PM
Tat, Mainiac1957, Girlmate and I thought that we here going to have a ftf at the Allegash tramway. when we got there someone had logged a ftf about four days before we got there but hadn't logged it on GC.com yet. It was placed over a year ago and we where really excited to be ftf but no luck. Oh well. Haffy, Its yours man enjoy!!!! :D

Beach Comber
08-02-2005, 01:13 PM
Well correct me if I am wrong. But the purpose of the log book is for the cache owner to to verify it with the internet logs to verify that the person that logged the cache on the internet has actually been to the cache. I don't think this ever gets done but I thought that was the intent for the logbook.Ohhhhhh, it gets done alright! brdad confronted me at the last event about my log in Battleship from a year ago - LOL!! I wrote a note and left my signature item, but alas I somehow forgot to actually write my name. Could it have been that it was hazy, hot, and humid that day? Maybe because it was my birthday? Or was it sheer intimidation of the cache and it's infamous owner? Nonetheless we had a laugh and he has granted me permission to keep the find - whew - I'd be hard pressed to take that tour again!! hehehe

Beach Comber
08-02-2005, 01:17 PM
DNFs are too me every bit as important as logged finds and I also believe (and let me go on believing) that a DNF is not a statement of how bad a cacher a person is rather it is an indicator of how good a cacher a person is.

I'm with you on this! Some days if it weren't for my DNF's I wouldn't get to log anything - LOL!! Some consider logging a DNF to be "a public display of stupidity" - ugh! I consider it an opportunity to share a laugh if it really is there and to alert the owner just in case it isn't.

dí76
08-02-2005, 04:01 PM
Hey judy,


As you get older we will all understand you forgeting to add your name to a log.:D :) :D

Beach Comber
08-02-2005, 05:03 PM
Thank you, thank you, thank you! I just KNEW you'd understand - hehehee

WhereRWe?
08-05-2005, 06:53 PM
As you get older we will all understand you forgeting to add your name to a log.:D :) :D

RULOST2? and I have a custom rubber stamp we use to "sign" all logs.

Gob-ler
08-11-2005, 06:19 PM
I see it as a very simple matter. No log = no find!

If there was a muggle issue then the cacher should have come back and completed the find. To say you saw it or touched it is not enough.

It's the signature in the log that seals the deal.:)

EGSG
08-11-2005, 10:42 PM
I think it's time to defend my "joke" about DNF's as PDOS - Public displays of stupidty. I overheard a converstaion about them at an event and in an effort to rile up the converstion I came up with PDOS. Sorry if I offended anybody.
Fortunately, we are a very tenacious team and have very few DNF's. I believe we have logged every one of them.
I take that back, there were a few in town that we made several trips to. Battle Ship, Cad D Ice, Cash cache, and the ones in Coe park and on the waterfront. But we knew we were going back the next day, so before we logged anything we waited a day, or two, or three. On all of those we were pretty sure the cache was there, but we didn't have time to find them.
Now that more people are going paperless and most PDAs only give the last 5 logs it doesn't make sense to log a DNF on a half hearted search.
Don't get me started on people logging in/out TBs. You can delete the logs!

brdad
08-12-2005, 06:16 AM
I take that back, there were a few in town that we made several trips to. Battle Ship, Cad D Ice, Cash cache, and the ones in Coe park and on the waterfront.

Isn't it odd out of all those, I hid one and was FTF on all the others? :D

WhereRWe?
08-12-2005, 07:34 AM
Now that more people are going paperless and most PDAs only give the last 5 logs it doesn't make sense to log a DNF on a half hearted search.


How do you get the last 5 logs in Cachemate? I only show one. I load my PDA from GSAK, and I know I have the 5 past logs there, but I can't find any option in Cachemate that allows me to change the number of logs imported/shown.

:confused: :confused:

becket
08-12-2005, 09:13 AM
click on the actual log date (i e 8/12/05) (or the down arrow) and a menu of about 5 (sometimes more) dates will appear just keep clicking to read the other logs

WhereRWe?
08-12-2005, 09:23 AM
click on the actual log date (i e 8/12/05) (or the down arrow) and a menu of about 5 (sometimes more) dates will appear just keep clicking to read the other logs

Well, DUH! :o :o :o

The mind does go with age...

Thanks, Becket. :D :D

becket
08-12-2005, 01:15 PM
no kidding! it was a d'oh moment for me, too! lol