Saving geocachingmaine.org

Based on my limited experience w/other organizations, I don't believe the donation basis will work well. Perhaps a minimum fee to be a member, one that might be affordable to the majority. And the possibility for members to make a donation above and beyond that, so we can hit the mark? Possibly Post a graphical reminder on the home page so we know how much more needs to be raised? Perhaps someone could put out a suggested/mandatory poll for current members, to see who would be willing to pay and how much as the minimum?

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Originally Posted by squirrelcache

Based on my limited experience w/other organizations, I don't believe the donation basis will work well. Perhaps a minimum fee to be a member, one that might be affordable to the majority. And the possibility for members to make a donation above and beyond that, so we can hit the mark? Possibly Post a graphical reminder on the home page so we know how much more needs to be raised? Perhaps someone could put out a suggested/mandatory poll for current members, to see who would be willing to pay and how much as the minimum?

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As far as i know the donation has been working. I would like to think that if RIck needs more money for the website he will ask. We are all a big family here and Rick knows we will support what ever (within reason) that he ask.

So.... I guess we should ask Rick, Do we need more money?

Maybe everyone that isn't a donating member, should be. Then see where it stands.
Opalsns

It has been my impression that there hasn't been enough money donated in the past to keep the website going and Rick has been footing the bill so to speak. (I'm guilty as well for not donating recently but I will soon, I promise) I know in past events that have been held, an ammo can was put out for members to donate and support the website. But those have been far and few in between from my recollection. Remember I'm not around there anymore so really don't know what has been happening in that regard but it's just a suggestion for future events. For some reason and I know Rick will step in and hopefully give his input on this,was that he didn't think it was necessary for membership dues so to speak but maybe the time has come? In the past it has only been about 20 or so members who have donated so maybe it is time. Even though I am down here in SC I still consider this my 2nd home. Ok ,back to mowing the lawn.....:D

What I don't understand is if people aren't willing to donate , why would they be willing to pay a membership ???????????
If they are willing to pay a membership, why don't they just donate ??????????
If membership dues are iniciated, will that mean all the people that don't donate now will leave ???? Or will they pay the membership ??? If they'd pay for a membership, why not just donate $ 5.00 now ?????
And what about all the GUESTS that are allowed to view this website??? Everday , on the bottom of the page it shows members that are on the website and guests viewing. If nobody joins with a membership, they can still be a viewing guest ???????
Am I making any sense at all ????
Opalsns

Thanks for posting the thread!:) I meant to get one posted when the Newsletter came out.:o

Some of you, but maybe not Dave:confused:, have noticed the Newsletter feature this month is about the lack of funding for GeocachingMaine.org. Check it out in the Newsletter Thread if you didn't get it by email.

GeocachingMaine.org is in need of a lot more funding than it has been receiving.:( The Newsletter explains how the website has been able to run up to this point, and how we need to get on our own two feet. Please read the article, it'll answer a lot of questions!

Ideas, like mandatory membership fees, are what we need if donations don't increase a lot. Is the idea of mandatory fees the best idea? I think we can come up with some more creative, inclusive, and bonding ideas.:cool: Please post any and all ideas that have crossed your mind. I hope we'll all be respectful of ideas and see them just as ideas as we brainstorm a way to maintain our great online community here.:) But feedback on ideas are just as important as the ideas themselves, just try to be respectful.:)

Thanks Opalsns for your feedback!:) I see your logic. I know that this online community was started with the intent to be as inclusive and supportive as possible of all geocachers, so I too hope that we can find an idea for raising funds that would be in line with that goal.:cool:

How do people feel about donation cans at events?:confused: I get the impression that some people feel it turns off attendees...

Again ideas and comments are welcome! We really need to come together to solve this issue! Thank you!:)

(And I'll be adding myself as a donating member at the end of the month...Hannaford credit card issues and bills have postponed my donating this month...)

how bout upping the price of the geocoin a few dollars and those few dollars from every coin will go to the site?

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

how bout upping the price of the geocoin a few dollars and those few dollars from every coin will go to the site?

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Great idea!!! An extra .50 on each coin and with the sale of 2000 coins we are back in the game again....:D Remember the 1st coin, we sold over 2000 coins so who knows how many we can sell this time around. Although I think the newness is wearing off some with geocoins and unless it is truely unique and with a good price like we had on the 1st coin I doubt that we can sell over 2000 coins,but what do I know?

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

how bout upping the price of the geocoin a few dollars and those few dollars from every coin will go to the site?

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Arron I brought that up once before and got shot down. Like it was a sin to even mantion it. I can nto remember if it was here or with the board members. I had sugested adding $1 to the price of each coin. It would not have come close to what I would like to have seen but it would have been a good start.

Let me also make it perfectly clear that I will keep our web site hosted on this server even if we receive no donations until it becomes a problem with my administrators from my other web site start complaining (which they have not yet) or until we start using to much bandwidth where we will have to start doing something drastic. I was just trying to see if we could find a way to bring in some money to help show the administrators from my other site that we are not freeloading. The $100 is not going to cover it if they were to ever realize that we are only contributing $100 a year to host on the server. They do not do the books and that is why they have not realized it. If they were ever to ask to see the books from me and saw that then I am sure one of them would say something.

I did not want to bring this up and have been tap dancing around trying to avoid getting involved with this topic. I was afraid that people would think I was trying to make money off our web site, which is not the case at all. I talked to Stef and had her try to mention it in the newsletter that we have been floating along for almost nothing for too long. As I have said in the past we are being hosted on my larger web site (www.whiteblaze.net). We have been using their bandwidth for free.

Let me explain the situation once more as I have in the past. We are using some of the space from my other web site which was not a problem in the past and still is not a problem yet. (I deleted a whole lot that I wrote because I started rambling on, LOL).

The point is this. We are using bandwidth from my other site for literally free. The amount of donations we received in the past up until now has been is as follows:

We had 27 donating members. Over the last year we have received $210 and this includes the $55 in a raffle that Brdad had to help out the web site.

Now let me talk about software cost to run the web site. These are just the things I can think off of the top of my head. There is more that I can not recall right now.
Forum software renewal is = $35
Gallery software renewal = $30
Article software renewal = $20
Links software renewal = $15
Domain name renewal = $10
Total = $110

To host a web site of this magnitude and with the expenses above it would be over and I am guessing at this without doing any research but my guess would be for what we have to be at least $750 to $1,000 per year to run the site.

Folks need to put a few dollars in if they want to use it. I have come here since the beginning in 2004. I have donated every year. I would start with if you want forum access at all then you must be a donating member. Now maybe a one week trial would be nice. After that then it should be put up or shut up. This website has a lot to offer, and free is great, but everything comes with a price. Adding money on the coin is nice, but offers no guarantee. As the old American Express commercial said, "Membership has it's privileges".

I am against requiring membership to the forums for one reason. I feel the forums are a great source of information for cachers new and old and help promote better caching to some degree.

It takes a while for a new member to get accustomed to any site and to determining how valuable it is to that individual. If they were forced to pay up, even after a week's preview, they may not bother.

If it's possible for Rick to do so, letting only members submit photos to the gallery and submit articles might perhaps be an option.

I like the idea of adding a couple of bucks to the coin. If I remember directly even last years coin was still cheaper then you would buy online. I think if that coin was 10 or 11 dollars people would still buy it. How much was last years coin?? Everything thing else is going up in price, gas groceries and such why wouldnt a coin be the same? Just a thought but I think that this would be the way to go.

The other option is start the donations at 10 dollars with an option to go as high as twenty wouldnt hurt. I would like to think that us core users could raise that money with out trouble.

And the idea of an ammo can at events is a good one. I would drop money in at the events.

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Originally Posted by brdad

I am against requiring membership to the forums for one reason. I feel the forums are a great source of information for cachers new and old and help promote better caching to some degree.

It takes a while for a new member to get accustomed to any site and to determining how valuable it is to that individual. If they were forced to pay up, even after a week's preview, they may not bother.

If it's possible for Rick to do so, letting only members submit photos to the gallery and submit articles might perhaps be an option.

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I agree 100% . . . if I had to pay to access this site when I was first starting out quite simply I wouldn't have paid . . . not knowing what the site was like, "geocaching friends" hadn't been made yet, I wasn't sure if I was even going to like geocaching, etc.

In addition there is a real issue with mandatory membership in a hobby-forum like this one . . . the site can die a relatively quick death if the same 20 folks who have donated are the only folks who stay on . . . topics get pretty stale pretty quickly. On another forum I recently joined (all about cruise ships . . . yeah, I'm addicted Dubord and Darterkitfox :D) someone mentioned a camping BBS that died a few months after the owner decided to go with paid memberships . . . before that it was a very active site.

Some of the ideas discussed so far that I like include Brdad's suggestion that only donating members get to submit pics and perhaps avatars . . . non-members can view and post, but no submitted pics and avatars.

I also like the idea of boosting the cost of the coin by a trifling amount (i.e. 25 to 75 cents) . . . especially if it can help the site.

Finally, while I rarely attend events (in fact I never attend events unless it happens to be a Tread Lightly event or Maniac's birthday) I would have no issue with a donation can . . . the way I look at it . . . no one is forcing anyone to donate . . . it's just a nice gesture.

Holding an on-line auction or raffle might also be a suggestion . . . I'm sure we all have some services or junk . . . I mean valuable stuff hanging around the house that is too good to throw away or stick in a geocache, but is not something we want to keep anymore.

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Originally Posted by dave1976

. . .

The other option is start the donations at 10 dollars with an option to go as high as twenty wouldnt hurt. I would like to think that us core users could raise that money with out trouble.

. . .

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This isn't a half bad idea either . . . as memory serves me right now the only options offered when you sign up as a donated member is $5 or $10. I suspect if there was an option for $10, $15 or even $20 that many folks would step up to the plate and donate a bit more. Personally, I think my $10 donation "buys" me a lot more joy, knowledge and fun than the $10 I have donated to this site.

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

...
I also like the idea of boosting the cost of the coin by a trifling amount (i.e. 25 to 75 cents) . . . especially if it can help the site.
...
Holding an on-line auction or raffle might also be a suggestion . . .

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I like both of these ideas.

I think the last time the fund raising idea was presented, it was not for dedicated funds. I think the membership is very much in favor of raising money for the operation of the site, but much less in favor of raising money without a clear purpose.

I've been paying attention to this issue ever since the newsletter first mentioned it(yes Stef I do read it). As always in these type of situations everyones ideas have merit. This site to me is the most important part of geocaching, the reasons being are the the ability to stay in touch with one another, making this game so much more. The way we all can kid one another, discuss upcoming events, even get into somewhat heated discussions, makes us a family of sorts. The other groups I belong to don't have this means of communication and therefore our only contact is usually a yearly event, such as a bicycle rally.

My point being is that no matter what, we need to keep the site going. I personally don't like memberships, don't like the idea of a can at events, don't know about the coin idea, and would instead like to see any money that may be needed come from some sort of fund raising effort. Why not have a once a year yard sale in one of the more populated areas with donated junk( valuable items) from the members. Maybe we could make it a combined summer picnic, or a cleanup, and yard sale. Having fun in the sun , while making money.

Yard Sale. GREAT idea Vic !!! We all have junk and one man's junk ........
Here in Canaan ther is the Canaan Storage Units. It's on route 2. The owner has lots of picnic tables he rents for 3.00 a table. You come and get a table and put 3.00 in the can. There are people that have units there just for there yard sale avery week.

Adding a dollar to the coin sale is an idea, but it is halfway through April and no coin in the makes. And more than likely the $ backer of the coin, who ever it is is going to what their money investment back first. Which is understandable.
I again want to add,
If they don't want to give a donation, then they won't pay a membership.
If they'd agree to a membership, why not just donate $5.00.

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Originally Posted by Opalsns

I again want to add,
If they don't want to give a donation, then they won't pay a membership.
If they'd agree to a membership, why not just donate $5.00.

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Paid membership has been discussed many times, and has been shot down as unwanted.

We want GCM.org to be open to EVERYONE, and a paid membership would scare off many people.

We have over 1,200 members, but Rick mentions only 27 are "Donating Members". (Sheesh!) Asking the core 30-40 members to fully support GCM.org would be hard.

Perhaps charging a $1 "suggested donation" at GCM.org caching events would be an idea. With upwards of 100 people at many of our events, we could probably come up with quite a bit. Most event sponsors are putting out significant $$ on door prizes and the like, or work REAL hard on getting nice donations, so that could be the incentive to donate...

:D:D

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Originally Posted by WhereRWe?

Paid membership has been discussed many times, and has been shot down as unwanted.

We want GCM.org to be open to EVERYONE, and a paid membership would scare off many people.

We have over 1,200 members, but Rick mentions only 27 are "Donating Members". (Sheesh!) Asking the core 30-40 members to fully support GCM.org would be hard.

Perhaps charging a $1 "suggested donation" at GCM.org caching events would be an idea. With upwards of 100 people at many of our events, we could probably come up with quite a bit. Most event sponsors are putting out significant $$ on door prizes and the like, or work REAL hard on getting nice donations, so that could be the incentive to donate...

:D:D

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I don't know if CHARGING and SUGGESTED DONATION can be used to mean the same thing. Can They ?? LOL!!!!
If folks don't want to donate to the site directly , I don't think they would donate anywhere else.
Having some sort of fund raiser is a real good idea and I think Vicbiker hit it on the head. Yard Sale !!!!
Also, Ebay. Just log on to ebay and search Geocoins. Some of them go for decent money. That is where I got my 2007 Maine geocoins. One came from Georgia and came from Canada. My brother and I have our CACHIN' CROW SERIES coins in the making and I would be happy to donate a ...
COIN FOR THE CAUSE !!! And I'm already a donating member.
If the 2008 Maine coin EVER gets made, the next event after it's release could be the place to raffle off one.
Just some ideas,;)
Opalsns

I think there is definitely room in the coin pricing to raise it $0.50-1.00 without affecting sales. Another option would be to issue a "limited edition" coin like many others have done, with a different finish on it for $2.00 more. I think the coin boom has passed, the 2005 coin sold over 2000, the 2007 sold a little over 500. It was more expensive, but was trackable too. I think the 500 number is more realistic for the 2008 coin. It will be a little more than in '07 if we go with a non-round coin as the die charges for the front of the coin were paid in 2005. A new front die will add a little. A different shape MAY add as well, I don't know yet. Either way, a limited coin may be an option for fund raising.

I'm a donating member and thought about everyone would be! Live and learn. Do we donate every year and if so, do we get reminders that it's time to donate again? I didn't intend my donation to be "forever".

That said, why not (those who want to) have silent auctions at their events? I was thinking about having one at mine to benefit the site but then figured they didn't need it. Wrong.

People who want to could bring an item to be auctioned and others could write down how much they'd pay for the item. Everyone wouldn't need to do it at their event, just those who want to. And an event that's just to have a yard sale and good time would work. I also like the idea of ammo cans at events for those who wish to toss in a bit of money for the site.

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Originally Posted by kayaking loon

I also like the idea of ammo cans at events for those who wish to toss in a bit of money for the site.

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I like the option of donating at events. I understand that some people that aren't able or interested in donating can feel uncomfortable with these, but if the container is in an inconspicuous location at the event, maybe in a non see-through container, people that want to throw in some money can, and those that don't want to won't feel the pressure from a big money jar in the middle of the event.

I'll just keep paying the yearly donation, and with all the Yankee ingenuity around here I'm sure it will work out in the end.:rolleyes:


I think adding a little to the coins would get my vote.:p


Also an ammo can at events as well. I will do that at the next Cache Bashe in Sept.:D

I think the raffle I did at one of Rick's events worked well for a first try. I donated a geocoin to the cause, made up a jar stating the proceeds would go to the cause and people put their user names on a dollar bill and placed it in the jar. A few people put their names on larger denominations and/or entered a couple times. The $55 collected was more than 5 times the amount that the coin cost, so it was a success. I think if it was done more often and people got used to the idea it would help out quite a bit.

Something I've seen other groups try is a 50:50 raffle too. 1 ticket for 1 dollar. The winning ticket gets half the pot, the other half goes to the fund.

What about those GREAT shirts that a few people have? The Geocaching Maine shirtd That Wherearewe mention at the wwwwww4. If there was 1 or 2 to raffle off, A few people had asked about them. Or Making more to sell, or even a simple tshirt.

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Originally Posted by brdad

I think the raffle I did at one of Rick's events worked well for a first try. I donated a geocoin to the cause, made up a jar stating the proceeds would go to the cause and people put their user names on a dollar bill and placed it in the jar. A few people put their names on larger denominations and/or entered a couple times. The $55 collected was more than 5 times the amount that the coin cost, so it was a success. I think if it was done more often and people got used to the idea it would help out quite a bit.

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That's what i said earlier, ... A Coin for the Cause Raffle !!!!

On page 1 of this thread, attroll listed the costs for the software and such as $110 though he probably forgot something.

We are using the blazenet bandwidth for "free".

If I'm reading the newsletter correctly we need $1000/year to keep the site running.

So is the goal to cover the software costs (cover $110/year)? bandwidth reimbursement to whiteblaze ($900+)? break geocachingmaine.org onto its own server?

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Originally Posted by kayakerinme

On page 1 of this thread, attroll listed the costs for the software and such as $110 though he probably forgot something.

We are using the blazenet bandwidth for "free".

If I'm reading the newsletter correctly we need $1000/year to keep the site running.

So is the goal to cover the software costs (cover $110/year)? bandwidth reimbursement to whiteblaze ($900+)? break geocachingmaine.org onto its own server?

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Asking for clarification - thank you!

And are these firm figures? Because somewhere (and I think in this thread) it implied it was an estimate, guesstimate or something which may not be firm. Before I start a project, I get the estimate and then firm figures. This is no different.

Another question - how many real members/users are there on this site? I see long lists of names but many have not signed on in the last year. It is not reasonable to do any business projection with bad data. To me, true research of member data is important. What is our usual and customary user base. I.E. We have x members - total on the books. X of those have been active in the last year. X of those have not been active in over 2 years. X of those have contributed to the site in some way (article, posting photos, etc.) or posted more than a dozen times. X of those are donating members. X of those have created a user profile.

Are we talking a 1000 real members here or more like 100 to 200 who will realistically share the cost of this web site?

I like the site, have enjoyed friends I have met on it and learned a lot from the site. My background just leads me to be cautious.

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Originally Posted by Sudonim

Another option would be to issue a "limited edition" coin like many others have done, with a different finish on it for $2.00 more. I think the coin boom has passed, the 2005 coin sold over 2000, the 2007 sold a little over 500.

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A limited edition coin - primarily for fundraising - is an EXCELLENT IDEA!

As I remember, the 2005 coin was selling on eBay for upwards of $30 at one time. Sheesh!

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Originally Posted by WhereRWe?

As I remember, the 2005 coin was selling on eBay for upwards of $30 at one time. Sheesh!

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I remember seeing them on eBay for over $20.00 at the same time I was publicly taking orders for the second batch at a little over $3 each! eBay is a deal...sometimes.:p

How about getting an order of pathtags for geocaching maine. You could easily sell them for 2.00 and make money back and then some. Pathtags are selling for up to 10.00 each on ebay and they are very collectable.

I did not want to write a book explaining this.

As I said and will continue to say, if we do not get one red cent I will still continue to keep this web site going until someone on WhiteBlaze administrators catches on and that may never happen or it could happen tomorrow. I wished I had never said anything but it needs to be kept in the back of every ones minds in case I have to come on here someday and ask for money to keep the web site going. Right now I am just trying to keep some type of donations of cash coming in to appease them if the question ever arises.

I really did not want to have to get into the fine details of all this because there is a lot to explain. Basically for what we are using for the server it would cost us between $60 and $70 a month to do what we have on any other server. The reason it is so much is because we are set up to have full control of a section on the server. Unlike other host or providers that give you a small control panel and limit what you can do.

As I stated I am not complaining about not getting money for the server space we are using. I will keep this web site going on my server until one of my other administrators on WhiteBlaze sites bitches or starts asking questions about it. This could happen tomorrow or it may never happen. I am just trying to prepare so in case it does happen so I can show them the books and say “this is what Geocaching Maine has been paying”. Right now we are only paying about $100 per year. That is darn dirt cheap and I will probably get some crap over this if it ever gets noticed but I will deal with it.

I was looking things over and reassessing the usage and doing some crunching and I think I can get a happy medium that would keep them happy if there were ever to catch on. I think I could convince them that $25 a month would be fine for what we are using for our part of the server and that would be $300 a year. This does not include the software renewals that we have every year at about $110. That would bring the grand total to $410 a year.

I could bring this down some by limiting things on the web site to donating members and things of that nature. I would like to share my opinions on this though.

Some have suggested closing the forums to donating members only. I think this is a bad idea. If this were ever to happen the web site would literally die. The reason web sites are successful are because they are usually free to use. If a web site is free then you are going to have a lot more using coming to it and participating on it. If we are trying to increase membership and encourage Geocaching then limiting the site would only defeat that goal.

Someone mentioned closing the gallery and if we did that it would save some bandwidth and we could get the price down on the server. Here is my opinion on that. It is just like the web site. The more photos people see then the more they see that Geocaching is fun sport and it encourages people to get out and try it. I like the galleries and like seeing where people have been and done while Geocaching.

I have said enough and as I stated in my first post. I really did not want to say anything because I was afraid people were going to think I was trying to make money off this web site and by some of the answers I get the feeling that some are thinking that. Here is my reply to that and my proposal. We will keep running the way we are and hopefully none of the WhiteBlaze administrators will catch on. If money is raised for the web site I will be more then happy to put it on the books so in case we are ever confronted we have some proof they were are attempting to carry our weight. Maybe we will not ever get confronted, believe me I am not going to say anything. However if we ever get confronted then we will have to cross that bridge.

I think that those of us the personally know you Rick are well aware that making money from GCMe has never been your goal. You never want to take any money much less a profit. Thanks again from me for doing what you do to make this site work. In the 4 years you've been doing this we've always had to push money at you. I know from past talks you're just not comfortable asking for donations. So anyway....$410 a year is not that much on a site like this. We'll make that happen I'm sure......or at least I hope so.

BubbaBass and I will do what we can to help as well. As I said earlier, When KD1EJ and My Cachin' Crow coin comes out, I will donate to a raffle or Ebay it.
Opalsns

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Originally Posted by attroll

Some have suggested closing the forums to donating members only. I think this is a bad idea. If this were ever to happen the web site would literally die. The reason web sites are successful are because they are usually free to use. If a web site is free then you are going to have a lot more using coming to it and participating on it. If we are trying to increase membership and encourage Geocaching then limiting the site would only defeat that goal.

Someone mentioned closing the gallery and if we did that it would save some bandwidth and we could get the price down on the server. Here is my opinion on that. It is just like the web site. The more photos people see then the more they see that Geocaching is fun sport and it encourages people to get out and try it. I like the galleries and like seeing where people have been and done while Geocaching.

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I fully agree.

Aside from being a general chat board, the forums have answered countless numbers of geocaching questions - probably many that have kept a person caching rather than giving up.

And I've also said many times that the pictures in the galleries are great. I've lived all over the world, and lament the fact that I didn't take more pictures when I was there. So I really appreciate the fact that members are documenting their caching adventures and posting the pictures here for the rest of us to enjoy. (Jake's great trip pictures are a recent example.)

:D:D

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Originally Posted by WhereRWe?

. . . So I really appreciate the fact that members are documenting their caching adventures and posting the pictures here for the rest of us to enjoy. (Jake's great trip pictures are a recent example.)

:D:D

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Thank you Bruce.

Jake goes to the Islands and we get monkey pictures.:D

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Originally Posted by Mainiac1957

I think that those of us the personally know you Rick are well aware that making money from GCMe has never been your goal. You never want to take any money much less a profit. Thanks again from me for doing what you do to make this site work. In the 4 years you've been doing this we've always had to push money at you. I know from past talks you're just not comfortable asking for donations. So anyway....$410 a year is not that much on a site like this. We'll make that happen I'm sure......or at least I hope so.

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I echo thanks to Rick for the site and insight with his post. There has never been a question of your motivation to promote the sport and at your own expense for a long time.

With awareness, I believe we can increase the cash flow this year. Again - thanks for a job well done!:)