Owner Maintenance or Archived

I am heading out to Monhegan this weekend and i looked at the two caches on the island. Both appear to have been muggles. One the owner has done no maintenance. It looks like Haffy went out in 2006 to fix this the last time.

The other cache on the island has been muggled the owner says it has been muggled but didn't archive it.

I have a new ammo can thank to the Slipping into summer event and a small lock n lock box.

Should I bring these out to do maintenance on these caches? Or should I create new caches? (land owner permission may be difficult on a two day trip)

balinda, excellent question!

I wish I had a definate answer for you, but I think that this is a really REALLY gray area. There are some caches near me that have not been maintained, so for the past 4 years, I have been doing what I can to preserve them because they are such awesome locations. I have tried repeatedly to adopt them to no avail. Just recently, I was told that these containers are not my property or the property of groundspeak and I also understand that if I want to have a cache in the area, I just need to wait for the ones there to deteriorate until they are archived due to no response from the owner. It's a catch 22 for sure. I sure wish there was a better way!

Good luck!

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Originally Posted by balinda

I am heading out to Monhegan this weekend and i looked at the two caches on the island. Both appear to have been muggles. One the owner has done no maintenance. It looks like Haffy went out in 2006 to fix this the last time.

The other cache on the island has been muggled the owner says it has been muggled but didn't archive it.

I have a new ammo can thank to the Slipping into summer event and a small lock n lock box.

Should I bring these out to do maintenance on these caches? Or should I create new caches? (land owner permission may be difficult on a two day trip)

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Not sure which cache you were referring to but a group of us went to Monhegan a couple of years ago and Brdad brought a nice new camoed ammo can to replace the one by the lighthouse and the other one was a large mortar tube that looked like it would hold up pretty good as well. If it were me and I could find both of them, I would just go ahead and replace them both if there were remnants of the others to justify them. Don't think you can adopt them without a direct response from the original owners. Maybe if you wanted you could place a couple of new ones on the island in another location but like you said how would you get permission? A tough call I guess.

The two caches in question are the two physical caches.

Monhegan Magic (GC9216) by Anderson (2.5/5)

This is the cache we replaced, it has one DNF, but we looked for a few minutes and in a good sized search area before we found the cache, so it could still be there.

Monhegan Moonwatch (GCQ5M8) by Green Flashlight (2/2.5)

This one has been reported missing by the cache owner.

As far as what to do, that is up to you as Cache Maine noted. On one hand, it's nice that someone decides to help out. On the other hand, I hate when people hide caches they won't maintain. On the third hand, I hate to see classic caches go away.

Well, having enjoyed the ambiance of Monhegan - whow.......what would I say. GC9216 may indeed still be there - just missed my those who searched last. A nice ammo box and not a lot of places it could really go.

Moonwatch on the other hand, being confirmed as missing by the owners (who it looks like replaced it once before) is in a bit of a precarious location where it could have been dropped, muggled or just moved too.

Island folks may be playing here too - that is another consideration. But - as for maintenance - stop and think you fix it - but who is next? Catch 22 here - and, landowners permission for the cache? Has that been obtained or is that, perhaps why they are gone? Certainly a consideration.

Enjoy your visit to the island - one of the highlights of my life. Never would I have enjoyed this without Geocaching. A very fond memory. There will be the Sheridan which you can do and then perhaps the others are just misplaced.

Good luck - but regardless - enjoy the journey.

I may sound like an ogre but if it has not been found several times and has not been maintained I think you should log a "Should be archived" on GC.com. The reviewer will contact the owner and if there is no reply it will get archived. Then you can place a new cache there, with owner permission, of course.

Yup, Sabby - this sounds good........the owner pemission on a one day, one time, trip to Monhegan may be the problem. Well, laid plans, however, might be rewarded. Perhaps, balinda could talk with some folks on the island to ask about land ownership, lay some ground work - and ensure the caches are missing. Maybe even generate an "islander" who would welcome cachers. Time will tell. All suggestions are good.

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Originally Posted by brdad

The two caches in question are the two physical caches.

Monhegan Magic (GC9216) by Anderson (2.5/5)

This is the cache we replaced, it has one DNF, but we looked for a few minutes and in a good sized search area before we found the cache, so it could still be there.

Monhegan Moonwatch (GCQ5M8) by Green Flashlight (2/2.5)

This one has been reported missing by the cache owner.

As far as what to do, that is up to you as Cache Maine noted. On one hand, it's nice that someone decides to help out. On the other hand, I hate when people hide caches they won't maintain. On the third hand, I hate to see classic caches go away.

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Uh, Dave . . . how many hands do you have? You haven't been drinking water from the Penobscot again have you . . . I mean this is the only thing I can think of to explain why you might have three hands. ;):D

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Originally Posted by hollora

Well, having enjoyed the ambiance of Monhegan - whow.......what would I say. GC9216 may indeed still be there - just missed my those who searched last. A nice ammo box and not a lot of places it could really go.

Moonwatch on the other hand, being confirmed as missing by the owners (who it looks like replaced it once before) is in a bit of a precarious location where it could have been dropped, muggled or just moved too.

Island folks may be playing here too - that is another consideration. But - as for maintenance - stop and think you fix it - but who is next? Catch 22 here - and, landowners permission for the cache? Has that been obtained or is that, perhaps why they are gone? Certainly a consideration.

Enjoy your visit to the island - one of the highlights of my life. Never would I have enjoyed this without Geocaching. A very fond memory. There will be the Sheridan which you can do and then perhaps the others are just misplaced.

Good luck - but regardless - enjoy the journey.

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That day was a blast wasn't it . . . definitely a good memory. I still have a picture of the lighthouse hanging in my bathroom . . . I think back to Monhegan every time I'm doing some quality sitting in there.

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

That day was a blast wasn't it . . . definitely a good memory. I still have a picture of the lighthouse hanging in my bathroom . . . I think back to Monhegan every time I'm doing some quality sitting in there.

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Yes, a great day with good friends! Memories to last a lifetime!

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Originally Posted by Sabby

I may sound like an ogre but if it has not been found several times and has not been maintained I think you should log a "Should be archived" on GC.com. The reviewer will contact the owner and if there is no reply it will get archived. Then you can place a new cache there, with owner permission, of course.

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I agree 100%. If a cache owner can't take care of a cache in a reasonable amount of time then it should be archived to give someone else the opportunity to put one there themselves. Something else that falls into this category is Travel bug, and Geocoin owners that dont answer emails about their TBs, or about TB's/geocoins that they have in their possession. I have sent emails, and left Log notes about several "missing" TBs in this area and I never get a response, and the TBs never get logged as missing, or no longer in the cache. I also don't always get emails back from people that have MY TB's or Geocoins when I email them. >:( If you can't keep up with the maintenance of a cache, T.B, or Geocoin then dont put them out, or don't take them out of a cache! :)

By the way. Have you looked at the stats for these two cachers??

Not truly into it in my book.

Thanks everyone. I am thinking about placing a cache while I am out there. This will be my fifth trip to the island. I am a bit of an artist wanna be and travel here just for the inspiration.

I am in town for 2 days and I have to meet with some town officials for a work related thing. I think I may be able to get land owner permission with their help.

Great idea and good luck with your adventure!!!

I don't know if Hiram wants this public just yet, so I'm vague here, but we had a cache DNF'd and the cacher "rehid it" 1.5 miles away! And the cacher isn't even from the state!

Anyway, speaking as a new cache hider, I really appreciate all the help other cachers offer in maintaining my caches (Firefighterjake and Nially!!) and cachers who keep me updated on their attempts (Dubord!). Contact with the cache hider is really important; it's curtousy, even if they don't respond. I do think if the cache hider posts the cache is missing, then the very least they can do is archive it with a note on when they expect to replace it or with a request for another cacher to replace it. I say, if the cache hider is unresponsive, and if you don't find it, then make sure to post a "needs archived" on the cache page.

Great thoughts everyone!:cool:

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Originally Posted by Medawisla

I don't know if Hiram wants this public just yet, so I'm vague here, but we had a cache DNF'd and the cacher "rehid it" 1.5 miles away! And the cacher isn't even from the state!

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You have got to be joking.:eek:

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Originally Posted by Medawisla

I don't know if Hiram wants this public just yet, so I'm vague here, but we had a cache DNF'd and the cacher "rehid it" 1.5 miles away! And the cacher isn't even from the state!

Anyway, speaking as a new cache hider, I really appreciate all the help other cachers offer in maintaining my caches (Firefighterjake and Nially!!) and cachers who keep me updated on their attempts (Dubord!). Contact with the cache hider is really important; it's curtousy, even if they don't respond. I do think if the cache hider posts the cache is missing, then the very least they can do is archive it with a note on when they expect to replace it or with a request for another cacher to replace it. I say, if the cache hider is unresponsive, and if you don't find it, then make sure to post a "needs archived" on the cache page.

Great thoughts everyone!:cool:

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I think that may be 0.15m (I can never get my decimels in the right place LOL) but regardless - :confused: About how the lack of finding the cache and just placing out another would meet the challenge ~ I bet the Cache Owner for the challenge will take care of it!;)

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Originally Posted by Medawisla

I don't know if Hiram wants this public just yet, so I'm vague here, but we had a cache DNF'd and the cacher "rehid it" 1.5 miles away! :cool:

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:p:p:pFunny:p:p:p

That spruced up playing scrabble on the deck

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Originally Posted by Mainiac1957

You have got to be joking.:eek:

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nope, they DNFd ours and rehid another to get the delorme map...

and I highly doubt that ours is missing since upsalquitch found it last week, and it's not in a very "high muggle" area...

And hopefully, the owners of the DeLorme Challenge will disallow their placement for a "find" on that map by just doing that placement. That is a possiblity and I have faith in our Maine group. Agreed - highly unlikely it is "missing".

Heck - if that was all one had to do to finish the challenge - this whole challenge would have probably been finished a lot sooner by a lot of other cachers. To bad someone wasn't going up soon to find that map and be able to find/log your cache - that would "blow" their DNF log out of the water.

I'm confused. So this person
A: DNF'd the cache, so hid a new cache to claim the grid.
B: Replaced the DNF'd cache and claimed it as a find.

And how far away? 1.5 miles? .15 miles?

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

nope, they DNFd ours and rehid another to get the delorme map...

and I highly doubt that ours is missing since upsalquitch found it last week, and it's not in a very "high muggle" area...

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If you look at some of their other hides most are archived. The cache names even suggest that they place lame caches. That's just the way that player chooses to play the game. Remember the rule is there ain't no rules. For the most part anyway. I don't personally agree with it, but you know what they say about opinions.;)

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Originally Posted by brdad

I'm confused. So this person
A: DNF'd the cache, so hid a new cache to claim the grid.
B: Replaced the DNF'd cache and claimed it as a find.

And how far away? 1.5 miles? .15 miles?

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.15 miles and it has not been published.

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.15 miles and it has not been published.

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How do you claim a find for an unpublished cache???

Or even claim a placed cache???

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Originally Posted by brdad

I'm confused. So this person
A: DNF'd the cache, so hid a new cache to claim the grid.
B: Replaced the DNF'd cache and claimed it as a find.

And how far away? 1.5 miles? .15 miles?

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OOH!! OOH!!! I KNOW THE ANSWER!!! IT'S A!!

and their hide was .15mi away...

here's a link to the cache page

http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...f-68753e16415d

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Originally Posted by Sabby

How do you claim a find for an unpublished cache???

Or even claim a placed cache???

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for the delorme challenge, if you hide a cache on that page you can claim it. And I see it still hasn't been published yet, I'm wondering if our cache approver is having issues with someone from out of state placing a cache so far out of reach...

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

nope, they DNFd ours and rehid another to get the delorme map...

and I highly doubt that ours is missing since upsalquitch found it last week, and it's not in a very "high muggle" area...

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Just read their log . . . very odd. Based on the placement (high and dry), cache container (a decent sized Lock n' Lock container) and fact that a long-time, reliable cacher found it shortly before (i.e. Upsalquitch . . . who has a long history of rehiding caches the way he found them and knows the rules) and based on the location (i.e. in the middle of nowhere with very, very little chance of a cache being found) I am a bit suspicious of this . . .

It also seems a bit odd that they logged the DNF for this cache this week . . . but there are no other logged cache finds in all of Maine and they live in Massachusetts (the last recorded cache find was in early July I think it was down in MA). I say this is a bit odd since I tend to log all my finds and DNFs whenever I've been out on a caching trip all at once . . . and it just seems strange that someone would drive all that way for one cache and then log a DNF and no other finds. I mean what I'm trying to say is that when we swung through the Northwoods we grabbed the other caches "in the area" . . . I recorded mine the next day, Steph recorded her finds a day or two later and Hiram used the auto-download feature using GSAK. I mean stranger things have happened and folks do strange things . . . just seems a mite bit odd to me.

Hiram . . . the only possibilities that I could possibly come up with is a fisherman stumbling on to it . . . although it seems to me that they would be a bit closer to the stream or is it possible that we were too close to the Allagash Wilderness Waterway . . . I mean I too looked at a map and it seemed as though we were well enough away from that restricted area . . . but maybe someone monitoring caches in the area thought we were too close . . . or maybe it was paper company folks . . . or maybe it was the green men in the space ship . . . or the shooter on the grassy knoll. :D;) In any case, very odd.

So . . . uh . . . when are we going back to check on this cache??? :rolleyes::D

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

Just read their log . . . very odd. Based on the placement (high and dry), cache container (a decent sized Lock n' Lock container) and fact that a long-time, reliable cacher found it shortly before (i.e. Upsalquitch . . . who has a long history of rehiding caches the way he found them and knows the rules) and based on the location (i.e. in the middle of nowhere with very, very little chance of a cache being found) I am a bit suspicious of this . . .

It also seems a bit odd that they logged the DNF for this cache this week . . . but there are no other logged cache finds in all of Maine and they live in Massachusetts (the last recorded cache find was in early July I think it was down in MA). I say this is a bit odd since I tend to log all my finds and DNFs whenever I've been out on a caching trip all at once . . . and it just seems strange that someone would drive all that way for one cache and then log a DNF and no other finds. I mean what I'm trying to say is that when we swung through the Northwoods we grabbed the other caches "in the area" . . . I recorded mine the next day, Steph recorded her finds a day or two later and Hiram used the auto-download feature using GSAK. I mean stranger things have happened and folks do strange things . . . just seems a mite bit odd to me.

Hiram . . . the only possibilities that I could possibly come up with is a fisherman stumbling on to it . . . although it seems to me that they would be a bit closer to the stream or is it possible that we were too close to the Allagash Wilderness Waterway . . . I mean I too looked at a map and it seemed as though we were well enough away from that restricted area . . . but maybe someone monitoring caches in the area thought we were too close . . . or maybe it was paper company folks . . . or maybe it was the green men in the space ship . . . or the shooter on the grassy knoll. :D;) In any case, very odd.

So . . . uh . . . when are we going back to check on this cache??? :rolleyes::D

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Well, I took today and tomorrow off, and was going to work on packing and moving, but if you drive, i'll navigate!! :D:D:D

(you can come pick me up, we'll grab a few boxes for the move, and we'll swing by this cache on our way to bangor...) :D:D:D

and I don't think I can see your allagash theory happening, it is pretty well away from it, and I also think that if someone thought it was too close that our ears would be hurting pretty bad by now...

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

Just read their log . . . very odd. Based on the placement (high and dry), cache container (a decent sized Lock n' Lock container) and fact that a long-time, reliable cacher found it shortly before (i.e. Upsalquitch . . . who has a long history of rehiding caches the way he found them and knows the rules) ....

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and I have proof that he found it, he posted that he took my pathtag from the cache, and there was no way of knowing that it was in there unless someone dun dun dunnn... "found it" so we know it's there...

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

and I have proof that he found it, he posted that he took my pathtag from the cache, and there was no way of knowing that it was in there unless someone dun dun dunnn... "found it" so we know it's there...

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So I guess I'm confused . . . why would he post that he didn't find it and then hide another one .15 miles away . . . if he in fact did find it. I am so very confused right now.

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

So I guess I'm confused . . . why would he post that he didn't find it and then hide another one .15 miles away . . . if he in fact did find it. I am so very confused right now.

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Read slower jake... it's "proof that upsalquitch found it, hes the one that logged my pathtag"

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Originally Posted by Hiram357

Read slower jake... it's "proof that upsalquitch found it, hes the one that logged my pathtag"

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Ah, but didn't Upsalquitch find this cache and take the pathtag before the other guy logged the DNF? I'm still confused . . . but then again this is what I read when I perused through your last log (the Hiram method of reading :p;):D)

"and I have proof . . . words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words . . . it's there...

:D

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

Ah, but didn't Upsalquitch find this cache and take the pathtag before the other guy logged the DNF? I'm still confused . . . but then again this is what I read when I perused through your last log (the Hiram method of reading :p;):D)

"and I have proof . . . words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words . . . it's there...

:D

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Jake... I quoted the part of you talking about upsalquitch, so I was still talking about upsalquitch, and words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words, words

sheesh!

just forget I said anything about it! :p;):rolleyes::D

Jake doesn't read fast so you need to type slower. L i k e t h i s!! S e e. :D:rolleyes::p



























Sorry Jake I c a n' t h e l p i t! :rolleyes:

OK now I am c o n f u s e d

A cacher from Mass. wants to complete the ME Delorme challange so he goes out in search of the caches. One per grid.

He gets to a cache and can't find it so he hides one about 0.15 miles away. The first cache is still there though he just couldn't find it.

The cache he placed has not been approved. Probably because he is from Mass and not close enough to maintain it.

So if the Maine approver does not approve the cache is it in fact a placed cache?

I believe that it was the only cache in the grid so it was a case of find it or not be able to complete the challange until the cache was archived or somebody placed a cache someplace else in the grid.

Sounds like Team Teebow needs to make a decision on this. I did not see it covered in their writeup for the challange. As I read it you had to find an existing cache in each grid or you could place one if none existed. It did not cover you can place one because you could not find one that was there.

Interesting to see the outcome?

There was at least one cache placed to qualify as a grid even though caches existed there that I know of. So, I think it is allowed. And, if the cache gets approved, it should qualify. Whether or not is should is another debate.

The cacher came up with the main purpose of getting some of the grids. I know this because I corresponded with him prior to his making the trip.

I don't approve of vacation caches, but I'd approve less of people who DNF a cache and replace the 'missing' cache so they can log it as a find.

I know of at least two caches that have been placed on grids already having caches to qualify for the challenge. I think that, even though this looks odd, Team Teebow would have to accept this one as well. (Of course, it IS his cache and he has total and final word on what goes and what doesn't.)

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Originally Posted by brdad

There was at least one cache placed to qualify as a grid even though caches existed there that I know of. So, I think it is allowed. And, if the cache gets approved, it should qualify. Whether or not is should is another debate.

The cacher came up with the main purpose of getting some of the grids. I know this because I corresponded with him prior to his making the trip.

I don't approve of vacation caches, but I'd approve less of people who DNF a cache and replace the 'missing' cache so they can log it as a find.

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When jake and i were up there, neither of us had any caches showing for that grid (and we both had fairly recents PQs) so we assumed that it was one of the virtual tour caches that was on that map before. So we went out fully prepared to place a cache (and we even had enough of a stock to replace andy's) but at least in the case of andy's cache (the seboomok) i knew where the old cache was and was able to replace it. This guy claiming it wasn't there didn't know where it was. (and also I make my rounds to my out there caches at least once or twice a year)

I think that there are cachers with multi-thousands of caches who become self-absorbed with themselves and twist the rules to fatten their already over inflated egos. This is a classic case and a message to the rest of us. The cacher was frustrated that after all the driving and his "expertise" that he couldn't find this cache. So log a damned DNF and get over it! I may have 3000 caches someday and if ever start displaying this type of arrogance then come slap me in the side of the head!!! I hope our Maine Publisher looks very carefully at all of this before publishing that cache as IMHO it violates the spirit of our game.