Should caches that do not have a FTF be given hints?

I had an interesting experience this summer looking for a cache that had not yet been found after 3 postings and 3 weeks. After looking once and before returning the next day and finding it, other cachers had come, called the owner and been given extra hints for the FTF. They were honest of course and admitted that in the log. It made me think Darn!! and that maybe the unspoken policy might be that we would not give or get hints until a FTF had been posted or new hints posted on the webpage. Nothing against the cache hider, she is great and it was her cache to do as she wished. I actually kind of vented in my posting but it was all in good humor.:-)
What are your thoughts as how to handle FTF's?

I think cache owners can do whatever they wish, but I think, in the spirit of the game, that the cache should be found first without any help, to claim the FTF. IMO

Sorry about that reply, it had WAYYY to many commas. I, will, do, better, next, time. ;)

IMO hints should be left up to the digression of the cache owner.

I have more of a problem with hints being given by someone other than the cache owner, for example a previous cache finder.

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Originally Posted by Waterski

I had an interesting experience this summer looking for a cache that had not yet been found after 3 postings and 3 weeks.

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I agree with other comments - leave it alone. RULOAST2? and I once got a FTF on a cache that had been placed almost 2 years earlier! LOL!

I agree with brdad that hints should be left to the discretion, or the whim, of the cache placer. Laughing Terry gives his hints in a series. I think I needed 4 hints (and 5 trips) to get the cache on the 2 cent Bridge in Waterville. When folks call me for a hint I ask them straight out if they want a "little" hint or if they're getting frustrated do they want something more specific.

Personally, I try not to call unless I've put in a solid half hour or more and even then I'll often pass and try it on a different day or when I have "eagle eye" Dianne with me.

It's just another one of those questions best answered by reminding all that this is a game and how you play it is a matter of personal choice. Some players are what I call the "purists." They don't need or want any assistance and that's fine. One of my best friends eschews folks that hunt deer with a rifle, preferring a recurve bow like the early settlors used. Again, both "put meat on the table" and I'm not going to criticize folks who call for hints, as I do from time to time, as I find it FUN every time I find a cache, hint or no hint!:)

Yeah,
Let the placer decide.
My brother doesn't use hints and I can't cache without them, LOL !!!
And feel free to ask the owner for help, in case a muggle saw it and took it before someone could find it.
Opalsns

On New caches I like a level playing field. If there is a hint it is the one given on the cache listing. If there is no hint on the cache listing page then there is not a hint for anyone.

As others have said though, it is at the cache owners digression.

It's definitely up to the cache placer, especially since FTFs are not being tabulated for points. There can be more than one kind of FTF, and the person who is first to find it with no hints is justified in adding that to their personal totals. Nobody's keeping track of your FTFs but you.

As to getting hints from someone other than the owner, that's just the way people are playing the game. I try to remember that I want people to find my cache, after all. Would you rather dnf my cache, go home, email me and wait for an answer, plan another trip and wait some more - or just call your buddy that you have on speed dial and log it already?

If there is a special "trick" hide, the cache placer won't want to spoil it by giving out hints. How many visits to Old 470, Battleship or the 3 Penny Bridge? You remember when you finally found them, don't you? That (to me anyway) is more rewarding than a quick hint and on my way. Having said that, it can be frustrating to "just not get" a cache hide that everyone else is logging "easy find". Then it's time for a hint :)

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Originally Posted by Kacky

As to getting hints from someone other than the owner, that's just the way people are playing the game. I try to remember that I want people to find my cache, after all. Would you rather dnf my cache, go home, email me and wait for an answer, plan another trip and wait some more - or just call your buddy that you have on speed dial and log it already?

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I would rather go back home and have to admit my failure to the owner and beg for a hint. It is much more humbling than being able to call a friend just to be able to log the cache. Making more than one trip to a cache usually makes it more memorable as well!

Plus by phoning a friend, you are depriving the cache owner of part of the fun of owning a cache, this is especially true with the higher difficulty caches.

I agree. I tend to ask the cache owner for hints. However, I have asked others for suggestions on the best place to park after I have already solved and gotten the proper coords and know the GENERAL area.

The 470, some of Laughing Terry's caches, and many more have given me difficulty from time to time. Nothing though compares for me like that of Abbey's cache in N.Windham. After hours of looking, and I might add looking where I should not have just out of frustration, then logging on to the site to read a post like this. Saw this one while still driving in the driveway....found this one in just a few minutes....quick stop and grab. Then go back and look some more...then all of a sudden that little light goes on in your head and you realize like so many before you that it was right there all the time. Got to love those caches. It would have been ruin for me if I had called a friend that first day.

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Originally Posted by Sudonim

the 3 Penny Bridge? :)

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Just to clarify Andy, that would be the "2 cent" bridge, one penny too many....:D

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Originally Posted by WhereRWe?

I agree with other comments - leave it alone. RULOAST2? and I once got a FTF on a cache that had been placed almost 2 years earlier! LOL!

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Wow, that cache was a little insane. I had to pan out almost to the end of the maps just to figure out where it was. My guess is that there is not too much life out there.:)

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Originally Posted by Haffy

Just to clarify Andy, that would be the "2 cent" bridge, one penny too many....:D

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THAT's why I had trouble!:p

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Originally Posted by WhereRWe?

I agree with other comments - leave it alone. RULOAST2? and I once got a FTF on a cache that had been placed almost 2 years earlier! LOL!

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There are still some 'active' caches that were placed years ago and never found. 16 out of 62 caches in Russia were placed at least a year ago and never logged. This jem is from 2001 on the arctic coast.
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...&log=&numlogs=

There is one on lake Baikal (the deepest lake in the world, holding 1/5 of all the worlds fresh water) that was placed in 2003, and after many DNF's, was found this summer for the first time.

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Originally Posted by fins2right

Wow, that cache was a little insane. I had to pan out almost to the end of the maps just to figure out where it was. My guess is that there is not too much life out there.:)

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It's on a "First Nation" (Indian reservation) in northern Quebec - literally the end of the road. :D:D

I try not to give clues on a FTF, but I'm a push-over and I'll spill the beans everytime. Hard to believe I used to have a top secret crypto security clearance!

Well, I actually tried to delete this post about the FTF, and thought I had, but was surprised to see it on here when I checked back a few days later. Guess it did prove for some interesting discussion. My opinion would be that we should not be giving hints amongst each other, such as phone a friend, as it takes away from all the hard work and imagination the cache placer put into making it a challenge for the caching community. Some of these hiders must have thought long and hard to come up with some of these ideas and containers. When we don't contact them personally for hints and/or enter a DNF on the cache page ,it kind of takes away from their ownership of the hunt. I think now I would rather correspond with the owner for any hints ( after the FTF has been found) and let them enjoy their great hide, then have a friend spoil it for them by giving their own hints. Thats my 2cents ! Of course its a game with our own rules, so there you go.....HMMM....If you played my way that means Laughing Terry :D and others could be getting a lot of contacts.......:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Sudonim

There are still some 'active' caches that were placed years ago and never found. 16 out of 62 caches in Russia were placed at least a year ago and never logged. This jem is from 2001 on the arctic coast.
http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...&log=&numlogs=

There is one on lake Baikal (the deepest lake in the world, holding 1/5 of all the worlds fresh water) that was placed in 2003, and after many DNF's, was found this summer for the first time.

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There are only 62 caches in Russia?:confused:

That cache First in Lake Baikal is an interesting read for sure. GCGEKX. Enjoyed checking it out. Thanks. They must just have been elated to have found that one.

Whatever we feel we SHOULD be doing, the reality is that this is how people play the game. If that's how someone plays, I am not going to deny them the find. BTW nobody has ever called me for a hint on anyone else's cache, but I know that people have called other people for hints on my caches, and I have no problem with it. A hint for FTF is completely under the control of the hider, and whatever they do is fine. If you are keeping notes and you know you're the first one to find it without a hint, then count it as one of your FTFs. Nobody can dispute that.

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Originally Posted by Waterski

That cache First in Lake Baikal is an interesting read for sure. GCGEKX. Enjoyed checking it out. Thanks. They must just have been elated to have found that one.

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I have a friend that used to teach Russian, her husband was my best friend in H.S. After reading about that cache, I thought it would be a blast (and totally out of my budget!) to take the Trans-Siberian Railway with them and stop of at Lake Baikal for a few days, take in the sights and hit that cache.

Count me in, Andy. Who's bringing the Vodka?:)