GC favorite points

Code:

---

As a Premium Member of Geocaching.com, you now have the ability to rate your favorite geocaches of all time.

Premium Members earn Favorite Points at a rate of 1 for every 10 geocaches found, and past finds contribute to the point total. By awarding a point to a favorite cache, you help call attention to the highest quality caches in your area and reward cache owners for placing exceptional caches.

The Favorite Points earned by a cache are tallied and displayed on each cache page and in the search results for everyone’s benefit. Premium Members have the additional perk of sorting search results by the most Favorited caches.

---

I like this idea, actually I started working on the same project, now I don't have to :)

I would rather not see any rating system other than word of mouth. And to gain those favorite points by the number of caches you found is far from the best in my opinion, it seems it will just promote finding more numbers.

I think a much better plan would be a point for every year you are as member of gc.com, two points for every year you are a premium member of gc.com, and one point for every point one of your hides gets.

That being said, this system is better than many that have been proposed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

I would rather not see any rating system other than word of mouth. And to gain those favorite points by the number of caches you found is far from the best in my opinion, it seems it will just promote finding more numbers.

I think a much better plan would be a point for every year you are as member of gc.com, two points for every year you are a premium member of gc.com, and one point for every point one of your hides gets.

That being said, this system is better than many that have been proposed.

---

Why should premium members get extra points? You can as well sell points in packages 100 points for $20, 500 points just for $50 (you save $50)
Why should it depend on how many years you have been caching? Why should people who cache a lot (and therefore have seen a lot) get less points than somebody who registered many years ago and found just few caches behind their backyard? Also getting a point for every rewarded point you get is unsustainable, total number of points will grow quadratically and at some point there will be more available reward points than available caches.

Giving the extra point to premium members is an incentive for people to support the website. That is a good thing IMO.

Giving points for years caching would start the whole process. There has to be a few points in someone's possession in order for the rest of this system to function.

Perhaps the points per point idea could use some refinement, either a cap on the max, or maybe only get a percentage of the points for your 5 highest favorited caches.

I'm sure it could be made to work to some extent. No rating system is perfect, most are usually far from perfect. And in the grand scheme of things it does not matter because gc.com went with a different plan.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

Giving the extra point to premium members is an incentive for people to support the website. That is a good thing IMO.

---

So is selling the points. Is it as stupid as rewarding souvenirs just for searching for caches using their paid application.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

Giving points for years caching would start the whole process. There has to be a few points in someone's possession in order for the rest of this system to function.

---

So you are saying that somebody who has found many caches has less favorites than someone who found just a few but has been caching longer?
How is that possible?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

Perhaps the points per point idea could use some refinement, either a cap on the max, or maybe only get a percentage of the points for your 5 highest favorited caches.

I'm sure it could be made to work to some extent.

---

Sure, for example having no extra points for rewarded points. Otherwise you will be creating infinite number of points out of nowhere.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

No rating system is perfect, most are usually far from perfect. And in the grand scheme of things it does not matter because gc.com went with a different plan.

---

No rating system is a subset of a rating system. Therefore a rating system is no worst than no rating system no matter what is the rating based on. If you don't like the rating system, just ignore it and you will be exactly where you were with no rating system.


There is a fixed percentage of caches you love, more you cache more you find (you love or don't) however the ratio will remain the same. That's why reward points should be a percentage from your total finds. It's that simple.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

So you are saying that somebody who has found many caches has less favorites than someone who found just a few but has been caching longer?
How is that possible?

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

There is a fixed percentage of caches you love, more you cache more you find (you love or don't) however the ratio will remain the same. That's why reward points should be a percentage from your total finds. It's that simple.

---

I think the number of caches found has little bearing on how many favorite caches a particular cacher has, and I can't imagine why you think it is a fixed ratio. No cacher is guaranteed to have 10% favorites. A cacher with a larger number of finds may have (but not guaranteed) a larger variety of finds to choose from, but they could be of equal quality, resulting in them all being a favorites, or none. However, a cacher who hides caches other people consider favorites probably has a good idea what a good cache is.

A given cacher could find 1000 caches and have 2 favorites or 950 favorites. They may cache for years and only have a few favorites and then find a string of caches they love. They may have a low percentage of favorite caches they love and then a new cache type comes out and they love a higher percentage, or vise-versa. It is different for every cacher, and varies with time and available caches.

An additional 10% in points for my gold membership?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

I think the number of caches found has little bearing on how many favorite caches a particular cacher has, and I can't imagine why you think it is a fixed ratio.

No cacher is guaranteed to have 10% favorites. A cacher with a larger number of finds may have (but not guaranteed) a larger variety of finds to choose from, but they could be of equal quality, resulting in them all being a favorites, or none. However, a cacher who hides caches other people consider favorites probably has a good idea what a good cache is.

A given cacher could find 1000 caches and have 2 favorites or 950 favorites. They may cache for years and only have a few favorites and then find a string of caches they love. They may have a low percentage of favorite caches they love and then a new cache type comes out and they love a higher percentage, or vise-versa. It is different for every cacher, and varies with time and available caches.

---

Favorite cache is not a 0/1 problem. Some are less favorite some are more. Sort all your caches you found by your favoriteness and pick top 10%, those are yours favorite caches for the purpose of rating.

Let M is a number of all caches in Maine I would really love and N is a number of all caches in Maine. Some people will be surprised with the following discovery, but if I pick randomly some caches the ratio of my favorites will be always near M/N

You said the points you get should be based on number of years you have been caching. Why don't you explain how your system deals with problems you described above. Also my parents has been registered on GC for few years and found zero caches. Why don't you ask them which are theirs favorites? I'm sure they would get plenty of points to reward.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

However, a cacher who hides caches other people consider favorites probably has a good idea what a good cache is

---

Probably, but how does it make him to find more favorite caches? Will he get suddenly some magical ability to see whether he likes the cache before he finds it?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

You said the points you get should be based on number of years you have been caching. Why don't you explain how your system deals with problems you described above.

---

My idea is awarding points on member years only for the purpose of seeding the whole system, and so that even those who do not place caches get a few points. It is more based on the points you'd get for having your own caches favorited. This would hopefully encourage people to place caches which other people would mark as their favorite.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

Also my parents has been registered on GC for few years and found zero caches. Why don't you ask them which are theirs favorites? I'm sure they would get plenty of points to reward.

---

That part is easy. You can only favorite caches you have found. I'm hoping the current favorite system is set up that way too - it'd be silly to be able to mark caches you have not found as favorites. And they would only have 2 points for two years, if they went out and found two caches and marked them as favorites, it would not skew the system on a large scale.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

Probably, but how does it make him to find more favorite caches? Will he get suddenly some magical ability to see whether he likes the cache before he finds it?

---

Unfortunately it doesn't, no plan does. There is no product or service which can lead someone to only caches that particular cacher will find as a favorite. Just because a cache is my favorite does not mean it will be yours. I've seen high rated movies that I thought sucked and low rated movies I think are pretty good. Sometimes it may have been a decent movie but I was not in the mood for that type of movie so I thought less of it. We all have different ideas of what a favorite cache is, and that varies per individual on a daily basis, and caches often vary in quality with the seasons and other circumstances.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

My idea is awarding points on member years only for the purpose of seeding the whole system, and so that even those who do not place caches get a few points. It is more based on the points you'd get for having your own caches favorited. This would hopefully encourage people to place caches which other people would mark as their favorite.

---

I understand what you mean, but the goal is not to earn as many points as you can. It could be a different game, I'm sure there will be statistics of cachers who have earned the most points soon.

The goal is to mark top N caches you liked and because a number of caches you liked is related to a number of caches you found it's a good idea to calculate N as percentage of all caches you found.

I wish they had an alternate "Your Cache Sucks" point system as well....

I'd rather have them institute a minimum finds one cacher must have before they can ever place a cache...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CARoperPhotography

I'd rather have them institute a minimum finds one cacher must have before they can ever place a cache...

---

Sheesh! He finally said something I can agree with! LOL! :D:D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CARoperPhotography

I'd rather have them institute a minimum finds one cacher must have before they can ever place a cache...

---

Just like for ratings, using the number of finds is not a perfect method of determine one's ability to hide a decent cache. Some people could hide 50 decent caches without finding any, yet some people have thousands of finds and should never be allowed to hide a cache.

I'm not sure how you can fairly determine who should hide and who should not, but it would be nice if there was a way. I often say people should not be allowed to vote unless they can pass a simple test, like who is the current president, who is your current governor, color in the US on a blank map, etc... Perhaps something similar could work for cache placement. Unfortunately, this will likely never happen, either.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CARoperPhotography

I'd rather have them institute a minimum finds one cacher must have before they can ever place a cache...

---

And how would you start the game?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

And how would you start the game?

---

The game has started, so it would work. When gc.com started they were much more lenient with cache placements for that reason, vacation caches were allowed and there were minimal rules. After a while, it was easy to see vacation caches were more of a problem than a help to the game.

Once you have two rabbits, the issue is not how to start the rabbit family, the issue is how to keep the rabbit population from overpopulating. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

The game has started, so it would work.

---

Try to explain it to the people in Guinea or Liberia or Congo with no vacation caches allowed how great would it work for them. I would like to hear it too.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

Try to explain it to the people in Guinea or Liberia or Congo with no vacation caches allowed how great would it work for them. I would like to hear it too.

---

Approvers are allowed to adjust the guidelines a bit. I would not be surprised if someone tried to place a cache in one of these areas and provided good reasoning as well as contact information with proof it could be maintained that some caches would get approved.

By the time Maine's first cache was placed, gc.com was already cracking down on their approval. I would gamble less than 5 caches were ever placed here by someone never expecting to return. I think the state has progressed well despite that.

Times have also changed in the fact that geocaching is a much ore mainstream activity now. Many more people are aware of it's existence, which makes the capability of a area without vacation caches to grow over time.

Taking this conversation down a different road, how is everyone going to use these favorite points?

Some of my favorite caches are now archived, would you "waste" one of your favorite points on an archived cache so that you could have a list of your favorite caches, or would you only use them for active caches, so that other people could look for active caches you declare as a favorite?

Most of my favorite caches are great caches, so it makes it easy to favorite those. However, some of my favorite caches might have been mundane if not for conditions not connected to the cache, such as weather, people you were with, special day, etc.. It seems labeling these as a favorite is correct, but they may not necessarily be one I'd recommend to others?

I know it's just a word, but "recommended" might have been a better word to use than favorite. It sounds by definition gc.com intended this system to show recommended caches.

I'm gonna "Favorite" all of the nano GRC's that BRDAD has placed, to start.

Well that will leave you with 47 favorite points left to spend! :D

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

Taking this conversation down a different road, how is everyone going to use these favorite points?

Some of my favorite caches are now archived, would you "waste" one of your favorite points on an archived cache so that you could have a list of your favorite caches, or would you only use them for active caches, so that other people could look for active caches you declare as a favorite?

---

Yes I favorite also archived caches of course.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

Most of my favorite caches are great caches, so it makes it easy to favorite those. However, some of my favorite caches might have been mundane if not for conditions not connected to the cache, such as weather, people you were with, special day, etc.. It seems labeling these as a favorite is correct, but they may not necessarily be one I'd recommend to others?

---

You are supposed to label caches YOU LIKED, not you would recommend.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by brdad

I know it's just a word, but "recommended" might have been a better word to use than favorite. It sounds by definition gc.com intended this system to show recommended caches.

---

Now you are contradicting yourself. To WHO would you recommend the cache? Everybody likes different things there is no such thing as recommended for general audience. You would need to pick a list of cachers you think they would like the cache. Having a list of caches you would recommend has no use in general, however having list of caches you liked has a good use. Just label caches you liked and let algorithms to do the job for individual recommendations.

If these labels are going to make it to the PQs I will build a recommendation engine later if they don't.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

You are supposed to label caches YOU LIKED, not you would recommend.

Now you are contradicting yourself. To WHO would you recommend the cache? Everybody likes different things there is no such thing as recommended for general audience. You would need to pick a list of cachers you think they would like the cache. Having a list of caches you would recommend has no use in general, however having list of caches you liked has a good use. Just label caches you liked and let algorithms to do the job for individual recommendations.

---

I agree with this for the most part, unfortunately gc.com contradicts itself as well as seen in these snippets from the web site:

Quote:

---

Geocaching Favorites is a simple way to track and share the caches that you enjoyed the most. For every 10 distinct caches that you have found, you will be able to Favorite 1 exceptional cache in your find history. The Favorites accumulated by a cache are displayed in search results and on the cache page so everyone can see which caches stand above the rest.

---

Quote:

---

Geocaching Favorites is a simple way to track and share the caches that you enjoyed the most.

---

Quote:

---

What does it mean when people say a cache is a Favorite cache?
A Favorite can mean many different things. It could mean that the location is interesting or unusual in some way, or that the hiding place or cache container itself reflects the creativity of the cache owner. The one thing you can say for certain is that the overall quality of the cache is likely to be above average.

---

Quote:

---

I had a great time at a geocaching event recently. Can I Favorite the cache?
Since the point of Favorites is to recommend great caching experiences to others, it doesn't really make sense to spend a Favorite point on an event which has already taken place. For this reason Event Caches do not accept the awarding of Favorite Points. Be sure to tell the event host how much you enjoyed the event in your cache log.

---

The statement Since the point of Favorites is to recommend great caching experiences to others sure would make one think favorites are designed to be recommended caches, yet the other statements suggest otherwise. It is odd they feel you should not favorite an event that has already taken place, yet feel it is quite ok to favorite an archived cache!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

If these labels are going to make it to the PQs I will build a recommendation engine later if they don't.

---

I have not read where they will be added to PQs, but it might be nice to see which ones have been added.

Not that anyone cares of course. I have started to mark caches that I thought were special to me. Great views, great paddles, great hikes, great company. Milestones were some of them too. Hard to remember back as to the names on some. Yes I will mark some as favorites even though they are archived. Ones that I mark today may be archived tomorrow so that is not important. You are able to "un"favorite a cache so you can make a different one a favorite at a later date. I have way more points to award then I have great caches to give them too I'm afraid so I will likely always have a surplus.

If you could see all your logs you have written on one page with the map next to it, it would definitely help you to remember the caches :)

Sigh......... I'm remembering the day when geocaching was simple and fun, when I went out to find caches only to discover a place I had never seen before, a waterfall, a mountain top, etc. It was liesurely, got me outdoors....real quality time. 99.9% alone quality time. Now we have caches with homing becons, we have geo games that only a graduate from MIT could figure out, and now this "earning points." I'm getting VERY weary of it all. I have a decision to make.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by EMSDanel

Sigh......... I'm remembering the day when geocaching was simple and fun, when I went out to find caches only to discover a place I had never seen before, a waterfall, a mountain top, etc. It was liesurely, got me outdoors....real quality time. 99.9% alone quality time. Now we have caches with homing becons, we have geo games that only a graduate from MIT could figure out, and now this "earning points." I'm getting VERY weary of it all. I have a decision to make.....

---

You've probably heard me sing a similar song as long as you have been caching. And the first thing you'll hear is if you don't like it, don't do it - unfortunately there is no good way to filter for caches you would like. What I have started doing is focusing on the early caches - I plan our trips on mostly caches placed in or before 2003. I sometimes include newer ones in my GPS in case we want to do a few extra, but the main goal is the older ones. I also maintain a list of caches friends have recommended. In a worst case situation, you could always get PQs of only early caches and pretend these high-tech new ones are not even there.

I really don't care about points and the other features introduced recently. I am interested in just getting out for a few fun caches whether they be a hike, to new places or seeing things and places out of the ordinary. However, nothing in business can stay static.....and Groundspeak is a business.....so changes/improvements/features will happen. Thankfully, I can choose how I enjoy this activity, like every other cacher.

Very well put, Paul...

I think it is kind of ironic that all these changes seem to have come on the heals of Garmin coming out with their new website recently but it might just be coincidence,,,,,;)

And with all of this - I still think about What Geocaching did for me..............the Journey between dealing with Family Cancer and Living................

To some the above will mean a lot - to others you will wonder...........but really - this journey is what you make it............what you get from it personally, what you give back to it personally, and a ton more.

I am getting ready for a new journey in Geocaching and in filling out the application I realized - it's worth it! Cause this sport/adventure/journey - is worth sharing................

Points or no points - Geocaching can do a lot ~ or not, it is up to however you look at/play the game/sport!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by cano

If you could see all your logs you have written on one page with the map next to it, it would definitely help you to recall the caches :)

---

Hey, there is actually such a thing. Go to http://helpmerecall.cano.sk , upload your zipped my finds pocket query and enjoy :)

I have looked at the caches I have enjoyed and then at some of the other cachers who have found the same cache. Then looking into their recent finds I can usually find a few that I would like to do too. Now all I have to do is look at their list and the caches are right on one the page. Much easier for me. For me it is easy to find cachers who prefer the same type of finds as I do. Why, some of them are probably reading this post....;)

I'm not sure that the rate at which you earn points, is not too fast. I can't imagine that I will list 500 caches.

I went through my caches on GC.com last night and assigned about 25 favorites. It was actually pretty fun thinking back on the experiences I had finding all these caches. I like the favorites idea. It may also give folks an incentive to be creative and try to earn some of those favorite points ;-)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Fins_Up

I went through my caches on GC.com last night and assigned about 25 favorites. It was actually pretty fun thinking back on the experiences I had finding all these caches. I like the favorites idea. It may also give folks an incentive to be creative and try to earn some of those favorite points ;-)

---

I just went through all my caches and spent all my points (need more), it was nice to recall some memories and fun stories :)

Between the favorites and the souvenirs, it seems like Groundspeak is trying a bit too hard to catch the social networking bus, only to find it doesn't have exact change. One would think that those that are hooked on caching are hooked because of the experiences theyve had and the places theyve been. It used to be, people were happy with getting a smiley for finding a cache and it still comes up where people question where logging for a smiley ought to be deleted or not? Whats going to happen next? Well, as soon as specific badges or souvenirs are created, people are going to create local caches just to get those added to their profile and there are going to be arguments as to whether or not to delete a log to take someones badge away. I use the normal social networking sites for "check ins" and see that stuff take place with those sites as well. I wonder if polls were done as to whether people wanted these extras or not?

I could not agree more, MOTO.

I do remember a few polls in the early days on a few subjects, but now I think it some of it is they will cave to pressure of those that don't shut up, or to keep up with the 'competition', or do what makes them the most profit. And that is part of doing business, can't blame them for that, but it does not mean everyone should be in love with these new features.

I can certainly understand them trying to increase the usage of the site as well as get on the social networking bandwagon to try to increase awareness and revenue. When playing with "The app that shall not be named" (C:Geo for Androids) I noticed that it even had a "check in" option when logging the cache directly from the phone that would auto post a note to twitter and facebook. It definitely generated a few questions as to what caching was from some people who took up an interest and began caching themselves but I don't think I'd want to see notificiations everytime someone was on a power run. Honestly, would you like to see 1000 notificiations flooding your news feed on Facebook or Twitter as someone was doing the ET series or even 100+ while doing the SMR or Cars or any other large series? As the cacher, would you really want to take the time check in on every cache during a run like this espcially if you've already created stamps or stickers to avoid having to write? The technology is out there but doesnt always need to be combined. You know what they say...Too much of a good thing can ruin it...

I know its been discussed but if they are going to continue to integrate the technology, I fear that caching will become something like this....

You load the caches to your GPS and head out. All caches are now like WhereIGo's where you need to just get within a certain 3' zone for the cache to be claimed as a find. No more paper logs. As soon as you enter that zone, a find log is generated and automatically posted to the cache page, Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, Yelp, Foursquare, Gowalla, and any other "check in" site to let people know you made the find. Not only do you get a smiley, but you get a badge for finding a cache that day.

I can see a million different badges that can be generated which is crazy. Its all too much. When I do make time for caching, the only technology I want to be dealing with is my GPS and my camera. Otherwise I'm outdoors to enjoy the outdoors.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by masterson of the universe

I can certainly understand them trying to increase the usage of the site as well as get on the social networking bandwagon to try to increase awareness and revenue. When playing with "The app that shall not be named" (C:Geo for Androids) I noticed that it even had a "check in" option when logging the cache directly from the phone that would auto post a note to twitter and facebook. It definitely generated a few questions as to what caching was from some people who took up an interest and began caching themselves but I don't think I'd want to see notificiations everytime someone was on a power run. Honestly, would you like to see 1000 notificiations flooding your news feed on Facebook or Twitter as someone was doing the ET series or even 100+ while doing the SMR or Cars or any other large series? As the cacher, would you really want to take the time check in on every cache during a run like this espcially if you've already created stamps or stickers to avoid having to write? The technology is out there but doesnt always need to be combined. You know what they say...Too much of a good thing can ruin it...

I know its been discussed but if they are going to continue to integrate the technology, I fear that caching will become something like this....

You load the caches to your GPS and head out. All caches are now like WhereIGo's where you need to just get within a certain 3' zone for the cache to be claimed as a find. No more paper logs. As soon as you enter that zone, a find log is generated and automatically posted to the cache page, Facebook, Myspace, Twitter, Yelp, Foursquare, Gowalla, and any other "check in" site to let people know you made the find. Not only do you get a smiley, but you get a badge for finding a cache that day.

I can see a million different badges that can be generated which is crazy. Its all too much. When I do make time for caching, the only technology I want to be dealing with is my GPS and my camera. Otherwise I'm outdoors to enjoy the outdoors.

---

Your last Paragraph said it all - to heck with all the technology to things quicker, faster and whatever. I remember a day of caching with EMSDanel - taking the time to use both a GPSr and intergrate the use of a compass..........it was fun and excercised my brain. The camera too - a big thumbs up. To few folks take time to take pictures and share them with others. JMHO but hey, I am an older folk here................