Setting an example

A recent PM prompted this post...

The number of cachers and caches are growing exponentially in Maine. As much as we try to get certian cachers (new or seasoned) involved in this site or events, there are those who choose to be alone (some are just a little stubborn :D ) and there is little way to insure Maine caches retain their quality.

One way is by email, if it can be nicely and positively stated, explaining why you might disagree with the action a particular cacher took. This can be tough to do.

But there is another way we can. That is by setting an example.

If a cacher finds 10 lamp post micros, he will assume he should hide the same thing.
If a cacher reads logs of cachers trading a dirty used golf ball for a $5 item, he will assume it is ok to do so.
If a cacher finds a Gladware cache, broken and wet, he will hide the same assuming that's part of the game.
If a cacher sees a cache owner disable a lost or damaged cache and not do anything about it for 2.5 years, he will assume that is acceptable.

You get the picture - we as regular cachers affect other cachers more than we may think. Our hides and our actions give other cachers a baseline from which to start from.

It's impossible to expect everyone to do what is best for geocaching in Maine. And, there are multiple opinions of what is best. But we should remember when we place, log, or trade, that we are setting an example for others.

I fully agree. Thanks for the post. :D :D :D

I second that. Sounds like we could all set an example one way or another. I wish I could bring myself to doing it all the time. I have one pet peave that I just can't do and that is pickup cigrette buts when they are near a cache. I will trash out almost anything else and always trade up. That means in a few years caching will be more expensive but oh well.:D

Although we have been caching a year, we still feel somewhat new at it. We have learned alot from caches we have visited and hopefully have learned the right things. One thing we like is to be able to visit places we might not have ever been to if not for caching. Therefore we have tried to place caches in areas that people may enjoy visitng. I also am disappointed when I find a cache that is broken & wet, ammo boxes are cheap ($5) or a good quality plastic container works fine if you need a different size. I guess the biggest thing I would recommend is; if you place a cache, be able to get back to it frequently to maintain it or take care of any issues that may come up with it. I hope to meet more of you guys on the trail or at a future event.

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Originally Posted by FFFarmer

Although we have been caching a year, we still feel somewhat new at it. We have learned alot from caches we have visited and hopefully have learned the right things. One thing we like is to be able to visit places we might not have ever been to if not for caching. Therefore we have tried to place caches in areas that people may enjoy visitng. I also am disappointed when I find a cache that is broken & wet, ammo boxes are cheap ($5) or a good quality plastic container works fine if you need a different size. I guess the biggest thing I would recommend is; if you place a cache, be able to get back to it frequently to maintain it or take care of any issues that may come up with it. I hope to meet more of you guys on the trail or at a future event.

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Good comment! Bottom line: If you can't afford to put out a GOOD cache, save your money until you can. :D :D :D

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Originally Posted by FFFarmer

Although we have been caching a year, we still feel somewhat new at it. We have learned alot from caches we have visited and hopefully have learned the right things. One thing we like is to be able to visit places we might not have ever been to if not for caching. Therefore we have tried to place caches in areas that people may enjoy visitng. I also am disappointed when I find a cache that is broken & wet, ammo boxes are cheap ($5) or a good quality plastic container works fine if you need a different size. I guess the biggest thing I would recommend is; if you place a cache, be able to get back to it frequently to maintain it or take care of any issues that may come up with it. I hope to meet more of you guys on the trail or at a future event.

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Hope you make it to mine on Sept 10th in Hampden.http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...8-7bdbca8083ca

I have one ready to go out in as soon as I finish painting the ammo can. I have two sites picked out just need to scout both of them.

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Originally Posted by Mainiac1957

Hope you make it to mine on Sept 10th in Hampden.http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...8-7bdbca8083ca

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And I hope you have LOTS of "door prizes" - I need another hat (hint, hint...)

:D :D :D

Along the same line of thought . . .

I realize that the real fun in geo-caching is traveling to new places and the challenge in finding the hidden "treasure" . . . however it seems in the short time I've been geo-caching that most of the cache items are junk (literally -- spent shotgun shells, empty bug spray container, run-of-the-mill rocks), broken or just plain dirty-looking . . . much of the stuff looks like it has been moving from cache to cache for years.

While I am guilty of taking a cache item only to place it in another I try to be selective and only take something that looks decent or may be of some value to another. If I only find "junk" (usually the case thus far) I'll usually leave a TNLN or more likely drop in a few small trinkets of my own (i.e. pencils with eraser tops, Sacajewa dollar coin, etc.) -- something with just a little value, but not junk.

I've only found one cache item that I actually took home as I thought it was neat and figured my wife might like it -- a glass cat at a site in Brooks. For the most part much of the stuff isn't anything I would ever want to keep.

Again I realize that geo-caching is all about the thrill of the hunt, finding new locations and the comraderie of geo-caching and I realize we (or at least I'm not) are rolling in the dough so to speak, but it's discouraging to see so many caches that have a lot of crapola in them when sometimes even a nice $1 item would make someone's day.

This said . . . I intend to practice what I preach and have already bought a whole bunch of brand new things ranging in price from $1 to $30 which I intend to start placing in caches. While I will continue to throw in the odd pencil or two or cached item from another site I hope that other cachers might realize that finding something in good shape and clean is definitely more appealing than what I've found in so many other caches.

Finally . . . I have a question . . . I'm still a new-bie, but I've already started planning on creating two new cache sites. I'm taking my time though since I want to get the coords right and make sure things are right. My hope with the first of my cache sites is to create a cache where everything in the cache has a monetary value between $5 and $30. While I would encourage everyone to look for it, I would hope that most cachers would either opt to TNLN and just sign the log book (rather than leaving junk) or be willing to do an equal monetary trade.

Based on many of the member's experiences here . . . how well do you think this would go over? Would the first cacher or two clean out the whole cache? Would cachers be apt to take an item of value and only replace it with an item of lesser value? What do you think?

One thing that I have found is that there is a group of die hard cachers among us that practice caching eticate. These folks always trade up. That is one of the "rules". That means that caches should always stay nice. That being said. You can elininate the cachers that leave junk and might not be as interested in the cache by means of making it a members only cache. What that means is that you have to be a premuim member at GC.com in order to see it on the menu. While that won't rule out all the junk it will certainly help. The other way is to make it harder to get to. Not harder to find just more work to get there. I placed my first cache in June and it is still full of awesome stuff, only one couple have found it but oh well. I would prefer the experiance much more than the items. I have 130 something finds under my belt and have probably traded 2 or 3 times.

Jake, I believe you have the best of intentions, however I personally feel you will be quickly disillutioned. It won't nescessarilly be the firsrt cacher, but the good stuff will disappear quite fast only to be replaced by crap. The majority of cachers don't seem to understand the trade even or up concept. Attitudes range from the " I paid $4.00 for the happy meal therefor the McToy has a value of $4.00" to the " No one will ever know what I took so I'll just take what I want" to just plain don't care. If you make it a premium members only cache you will weed out some of the occasional cachers who fit in the don't care catagory( I am not putting ALL regular members in this group, just some)I personaly wouldn't put $30.00 prizes in a cache, but more power to you. Hope to meet you at a future event cache. Like mine in September for instance.http://www.geocaching.com/seek/cache...8-7bdbca8083ca Good luck!

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Originally Posted by dave1976

You can elininate the cachers that leave junk and might not be as interested in the cache by means of making it a members only cache. What that means is that you have to be a premuim member at GC.com in order to see it on the menu. While that won't rule out all the junk it will certainly help.

The other way is to make it harder to get to. Not harder to find just more work to get there. I placed my first cache in June and it is still full of awesome stuff, only one couple have found it but oh well. I would prefer the experiance much more than the items. I have 130 something finds under my belt and have probably traded 2 or 3 times.

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Speaking of premium memberships . . . are there many member only caches listed here in Maine?

Hmmmm . . . a more challenging cache . . . although after trying and failing to find brdad's "Old 470" and Kennbecmark and The Osprey's "Perkins Sanctuary" I think I should keep plugging away at some caches that I know will be easier at first. :)

I might put one kinda expensive thing in the cache as a FTF but that is it.:)

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Originally Posted by lefty

I have one ready to go out in as soon as I finish painting the ammo can. I have two sites picked out just need to scout both of them.

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Darn both sites are taken. The hardest part of my putting out a new cache is finding a really nice place to put one. I dont just want to make it a park and grab, nor do I want to make it one for tri-athletes but a nice place that folks can get something out of besides the hunt. Oh well I will keep looking.

How about down around fort popham. Are there caches down there, or down to West Point. When ever we go to Bath I try to visit these spots. The are very nice

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Originally Posted by dave1976

How about down around fort popham. Are there caches down there, or down to West Point. When ever we go to Bath I try to visit these spots. The are very nice

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Thanks for the ides, I will re look at them. Maybe I dont have much creativety. I'm gonna do go down that way fishing soon so I will do some scouting down there.

Thanks

[QUOTE=firefighterjake]Speaking of premium memberships . . . are there many member only caches listed here in Maine?

There is currently only one ,I think,members only cache and that is by 19Tango it is called E-I-E-I-O and not to take away from the owner but when I opened the cache he had used another logbook from another of his caches that he owned that got muggled and the items that were in it were nothing to write home about. So just being a members only cache doesn't mean it is going to be any better than any other cache. Just my thoughts.

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

Along the same line of thought . . .
While I am guilty of taking a cache item only to place it in another I try to be selective and only take something that looks decent or may be of some value to another. If I only find "junk" (usually the case thus far) I'll usually leave a TNLN or more likely drop in a few small trinkets of my own (i.e. pencils with eraser tops, Sacajewa dollar coin, etc.) -- something with just a little value, but not junk.

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As my original post states, you are setting an example by leaving the junk in the cache and either taking nothing or leaving something.

Why not remove something less desirable from the cache, and leave one or two things, and log that you did so. You don't have to put it in another cache or keep the item, just get it out of the system! Other people may read the log and realize it might help. You can also trash out - it is's totally worthless, just remove it from the cache. If we all tried to do this, caches might have fewer items, but they might all be in good condition.

I don't do this as often as I should, either - but I think it would if we all tried.

It also helps if you make sure what you put into a cache goes into a well sealed zip lock - either one provided, or even better, a single bag just for your item.

I agree with a couple of the other posts. DO NOT put a lot of "good stuff" in a cache. It seems to be getting worse lately, but people seem to love to take "nice" items and leave junk.

We don't always trade. If we do, we try and trade for equal value/worth, or better. We usually leave our signature Maine Geocacher Permit in all caches, without regard to what we take/leave. (Some people think their computer printed "signature item" is equal to a $2 -$3 item, but that's another post...)

And especially, don't equate value with desirability. We had a bunch of rubber frogs - cost a quarter or so - that people really seemed to like.

Happy caching!

:D :D :D

Dave 1976 - just do a search on the zip code for Bath and some awesome caches will come up. ThornHead, Fort Baldwin, Morse Mountain, Erratics to mention a few. Nothing to my knowledge right at Popham. We've got quite a few more marked off but not done yet as we have summer company right now and mom couldn't do any woods walking.

It's been interesting reading about "trading up". We always leave a small zip lock bag with marbles and our geocaching card plus any other item we leave. Often we don't take anything. I'd never thought about taking out the junnk because defining junk is sort of subjective <G>

Headed up to Boothbay Harbor today to have the annual lobster on the co-op pier. Stopped at Big Al's and found some fun items, not expensive but not junk, just fun. I've started to think most adults geocache just to go to the location not for the contents. And yes I do have a small collection of rubber frogs found in caches .

Anne / TwoMaineiacs

Hey Jake, I know how generous you are with the dollar bills. I think the idea of a big ticket item cache is a good one but I have to agree that it soon would get traded down. I have seen some new caches with good items and some older ones with junk, it seems the easier they are to get to and find, the more junk they attract, when you have to work for them they seem to maintain more valuable items.

If you want a nicely stocked Bangor area cache, check out "Planes, Trains, and Automobiles" GCG5AW
This can be a bushwack, and there's no scenery, but nice stuff in the cache. Top notch toy cars, etc. Out of the way, it's not a drive-by, you have to work for it.

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Originally Posted by brdad

As my original post states, you are setting an example by leaving the junk in the cache and either taking nothing or leaving something.

Why not remove something less desirable from the cache, and leave one or two things, and log that you did so. You don't have to put it in another cache or keep the item, just get it out of the system! Other people may read the log and realize it might help. You can also trash out - it is's totally worthless, just remove it from the cache. If we all tried to do this, caches might have fewer items, but they might all be in good condition.

I don't do this as often as I should, either - but I think it would if we all tried.

It also helps if you make sure what you put into a cache goes into a well sealed zip lock - either one provided, or even better, a single bag just for your item.

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That's a good idea about the baggie . . . it would keep things cleaner, neater and make for a better looking cache.

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Originally Posted by FFFarmer

Hey Jake, I know how generous you are with the dollar bills. I think the idea of a big ticket item cache is a good one but I have to agree that it soon would get traded down. I have seen some new caches with good items and some older ones with junk, it seems the easier they are to get to and find, the more junk they attract, when you have to work for them they seem to maintain more valuable items.

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Maybe I'm an optimist . . . but I think I may try one or two caches with good stuff to start with and see how it goes . . . making it a bit more difficult to find might be a good idea.

P.S. I don't intend to put any dollar bills in them . . . but I have selected some items which I think people would definitely like.

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Originally Posted by firefighterjake

Maybe I'm an optimist . . . but I think I may try one or two caches with good stuff to start with and see how it goes . . . making it a bit more difficult to find might be a good idea.

P.S. I don't intend to put any dollar bills in them . . . but I have selected some items which I think people would definitely like.

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I think location, location, location will draw the cachers. Contents are nice but not necessary to get a cacher to your site. Advertising valuable contents may result in a lost cache. I've always wondered what would happen if I did the same thing; put valuable treasures in a cache, I have this vision the whole cache would dissappear and no one would log it.

If someone is interested in getting into real treasure hunting, there are several online sites that offer real gold bullion and trinkets of enormous value. Solve the puzzle an become a millionaire.

Your intentions are great and I understand and happen to agree with you on content of caches. I agree with alot of the post here about how to remove the "junk". I would like to beleive that nobody is actually geocaching for profit. I would hate for the focus of geocaching to become, "What's in it for me?" If I put something in a one of my hidden caches, if it gets traded down or even really is of little concern to me, I only hope the person either enjoyed the hunt of the location.

When I first started caching last fall, I read the rules of the road on the GC website and took some small trade items with me. After my first 10 or so caches, I gave up on trading stuff because I never found anything that I wanted to trade for. So, I now only sign the logs with a TNLN. Of course, I really wanted to take that nice Parmacheenee fly I found at the Apple Farm but did not have a trade item with me so I left it there. Besides, caching for me is a fun game I can play the rest of the year with the GPS I bought to take with me during hunting season. I also have visited some new places I never would have seen if not hunting for a cache. I came to believe that the trade items were mostly for any kids that are part of a caching family outing. Of course, If I start finding $30 trade items in a cache I will have to rethink my options...LOL

The other thing to consider FireFighterJake is that caches that start with a theme, do not usually end up keeping with the theme. Eventually, all the theme items are gone and no new theme items come in. We do keep a stock of toys for the kids, but the only other trading we do is for sig items. And I can't tell you how many old icky toys/buttons/matches/smellythings/brokenthings/cigarettes we've taken out of caches. This can deplete what initially looks like a well stocked cache to nothin' pretty quick. And it just goes back to the owner taking some responsibility to check on the cache once in awhile.

Hmmm . . . seems as though most folks here say it's not worthwhile to create a cache with some half decent things in it. I suppose most folks here have been around quite a while and have seen and done a lot more than me . . . but once again I'd like to think that most folks are pretty decent and would either not trade an item if they had an item of lesser value or would place an item of equal value . . . personally for me I enjoy giving away stuff . . . after all you can't take "it" with you and so I think I'll still attempt one or two caches to start with stocked with good stuff . . . and see how it goes. Not a themed cache, but one where people know right from the get-go that if they go looking they should either be prepared to write "TNLN" or make a good trade.

My final thought . . . it still blows my mind that folks think nothing of buying a $150-$300 GPSr and get into geo-caching and then can't come up with anything better to trade or leave in a cache than something that is dirty, broken, etc. It seems to me that a ten dollar bill and a stop at a Dollar Store or Mardens even could easily fill up some caches . . . sure the items might not make anyone rich, but I tell ya, just finding some corn cob holders in their original packaging made my evening a few days ago . . . something useful and something that wasn't dirty, broken or totally useless.

I have only 4 hides to my name as of now,but over 350 finds and I can say from experience and caching that the only time one seems to find anything of any value so to speak is when you might get lucky and be the FTF. And then I very rarely take anything. My biggest thing is finding signature items and I have a good selection of those.

The 4 caches that I have put out, I may have invested probably 20 bux into each one.Anyone who has had the opportunity to visit one of my caches early in it's infancy has seen that the stuff in it is not the usual junk,but it gets that way soon,let me tell you.

My favorite place for my swag is the local Dollar store here in Waterville next to Shaw's. You would be surprised what can be had for a dollar and these items are not really junk either,they just cost a dollar that's all. In my last cache I left a new packaged CITO shirt that I had picked up for the last event cleanup cache that I participated in Brewer with a bunch of other cacher friends. That was given out as a FTF prize. Most of the time it doesn't take long before all the so-called good stuff is retrieved and only the junk is left.

For me finding the cache is all the fun anyway and getting to places that I would never have visited were it not for geocaching. Plus the added benefit which has been the biggest asset and that is the friends that I have made and gotten to befriend these last couple of years. That is one thing that can never be taken away. :D

I second that Haffy:)


I have found it to be about the life long friends that I have acquired

That is the tresure in all of this:)

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Haffy6......In my last cache I left a new packaged CITO shirt that I had picked up for the last event cleanup cache that I participated in Brewer with a bunch of other cacher friends. That was given out as a FTF prize.

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I was FTF on that and didn't take the prize. Being FTF was prize enough and the cache location was awesome. The FTF prize was a size too small and I hope whoever got it will wear it and display Geocaching colors and ethos proudly.

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Firefighterjake......personally for me I enjoy giving away stuff . . . after all you can't take "it" with you and so I think I'll still attempt one or two caches to start with stocked with good stuff . . . and see how it goes. Not a themed cache, but one where people know right from the get-go that if they go looking they should either be prepared to write "TNLN" or make a good trade.

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I'm not being critical and I understand your point about quality of cache items and I think its a shame that many people don't trade evenly. I think the MacDonald toys are annoying, basically because I don't play with `em. My daughter, who is 4 likes the rocks and shotgun shells found in the bottom of the cache, go figure. (She also much rather play with the box that the $150.00 battery operated car came in than the car itself. ) My point is and many people here may feel the same, if you put $50 of stuff in a cache and hide it at the rear of a WalMart parking lot, it's not as good a cache that has a well thought out hide or location at a very scenic location with nothing but a few $1 swags. I've been told my philosophy isn't true down south as numbers are more important than quality caches and a GPS isn't really needed down south, all you have to do is pick up a base of a light pole at Walmart. LOL...I got to go and see that and boost my numbers. lol

You mention you like to do nice things. Surfice it to say that you did your part and put out a nice cache and not become dissappointed when in a few months your cache is full of rocks and old shotgun shells. Retention of cachers and recruitment should be our goal. Don't let the trade items keep you from otherwise a great sport and opportunity to see and walk through some great places here in Maine or elsewhere for that matter. (TN has how many lightpoles?)

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Originally Posted by Trezurs*-R-*Fun

I'm not being critical and I understand your point about quality of cache items and I think its a shame that many people don't trade evenly. I think the MacDonald toys are annoying, basically because I don't play with `em. My daughter, who is 4 likes the rocks and shotgun shells found in the bottom of the cache, go figure. (She also much rather play with the box that the $150.00 battery operated car came in than the car itself. ) My point is and many people here may feel the same, if you put $50 of stuff in a cache and hide it at the rear of a WalMart parking lot, it's not as good a cache that has a well thought out hide or location at a very scenic location with nothing but a few $1 swags. I've been told my philosophy isn't true down south as numbers are more important than quality caches and a GPS isn't really needed down south, all you have to do is pick up a base of a light pole at Walmart. LOL...I got to go and see that and boost my numbers. lol

You mention you like to do nice things. Surfice it to say that you did your part and put out a nice cache and not become dissappointed when in a few months your cache is full of rocks and old shotgun shells. Retention of cachers and recruitment should be our goal. Don't let the trade items keep you from otherwise a great sport and opportunity to see and walk through some great places here in Maine or elsewhere for that matter. (TN has how many lightpoles?)

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I believe people stay in any sport or activity if they have motivation. That motivation varies from individual from individual. In the short time I've been geo-caching I've noticed that for some folks it seems to be all about the numbers (having the most finds), for others it's about being one of the first to get the FTF (apparently a rarity for many folks who work Monday through Friday), for others it's about the challenge of finding something hidden away that many people walk right by and never notice, while for others it may be spending the day with their family or loved ones, getting outside, seeing new locations and for some it's finding a small reward . . . although I suspect for many of us it's a combination of these factors that motivate us.

I agree 100% with you on the location issue. If I put together a cache full of $100 worth of swag and then placed it at the Unity Lagoon where all the septic waste ends up or at HawkRidge where human sludge is processed into compost I can't imagine too many geo-cachers would appreciate the cache as much as they might a cache full of $10 worth of swag in a scenic, out-of-the-way spot.

Again, my main point is that I have seen too often folks that just don't seem to care and think throwing in items that are broken, dirty or just plain trash in a cache is OK. Maybe my thinking is off kilter from the rest of geo-caching society, but I don't want to take something from every cache I encounter, but it's nice to at least see a cache with some decent looking stuff in it. I don't expect to find $10 bills in caches (although I was surprised to see a few caches with some in them), diamond rings or $20 gift items . . . but it's very disappointing to search and search and find a beautiful spot and then find garbage in the cache . . . especially with the CITO philosophy supposedly being espoused . . . some of these caches almost appear to be CITI.

And now the good news . . . this past week I've done three or four caches (I can't seem to get it out of my system -- I think I'm addicted -- I think I would make a great drug junkie or drunk if I actually did drugs or drank alcohol in quantity! -- and the good news is that in virtually all of them (one was a micro cache) I found the cache to be pretty clean and there was a variety of decent-looking items in them. One cache I opted to take nothing. At another I took a signature item and placed an item (new AA flashlight in its original packaging) of at least the same if not more value and at the third cache (as mentioned earlier) I found some corn cob holders which I replaced with two items of same or more value. It sounds stupid, but those corn cob holders made my day . . . probably only cost 99 cents, but the point is someone cared enough to place something decent-looking and not simply place something that looked as though it came from the left-overs of a yard sale. After my last few caches I'm thinking maybe I just happened to start out with some lousy caches where folks didn't care so much. . . .

Joe and I went to five caches in the Falmouth area today and enjoyed all the walks even though it was about 90 degrees and humid. Fortunately we had a LOT of water bottles with us. We hit our 94th cache today and yes, we have seen caches filled with junk, neglected and in pretty bad locations. Today was an excellent cache day with all five caches being in good condition, clean, interesting items in them and in safe, accessible locations. We often take nothing but always put in our baggie with geocache card and marbles. If we do trade and it is a really good item, we'll put in two items. Today we lucked out and picked up a Msteelee cardinal on a rock which I'd hoped to one day find. Also passed up on a Forest Nymph painted acorn since we already have one. The last cache we took nothing but left Atroll's screen saver CD. We try to think what we'd like to find in a cache and leave something as good - or just take nothing. Since we cache with just each other and no kids, it's not about taking things but about new locations and just finally finding the box! For me, the most fun of all is Travel Bugs. It just facinates me to see these things travel around the world. Maybe I wish it was me doing the travelling.

Anne / TwoMaineiacs

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Originally Posted by TwoMaineiacs

For me, the most fun of all is Travel Bugs. It just facinates me to see these things travel around the world. Maybe I wish it was me doing the travelling.

Anne / TwoMaineiacs

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I agree. We just got back from a caching trip to Eastport/Campobello/Calais. We took 6 TB's with us, and the most fun was deciding where to place them - with diligence to the goal the owner stipulated for the TB.

We have several TB's out there as well: two are currently in Europe (one in Norway and one in the UK after visiting Ireland). We really love getting the emails telling us they've moved, and reading what people say about the TB.

And then there are the people - especially newbies - who pick up a TB and hang on to it for months. Sems like they don't realize that there are people there WAITING for the TB to move.

Oh well...

:rolleyes: