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Thread: Railroad trespassing

  1. #21
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    Default Crossing the tracks

    Quote Originally Posted by TrainHunter
    ...
    Somewhere in here, I should include this disclaimer: I am not a lawyer (nor do I portray one on TV ). But I think it all comes back to the old slogan "Let's not meet by accident."
    Certainly we should obey the law, but we should also try to rally behind the spirit of the law. I had not considered crossing the tracks as being overly dangerous; perhaps no more dangerous than getting to the tracks by driving or walking. Still, we should probably consider this when placing a cache since the casual hiker may not realize the danger involved.

    Thanks for clearifying.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trezurs*-R-*Fun
    The above link pertains to motor vehicle law.
    Um, yeah, it was meant as an illustration of something that many people would say they didn't know (in spite of having passed a licensing exam), or that people just tend to ignore. All those who wish to disregard that part of my post may do so.
    Is there specific laws regarding pedestrian crossing and usage???
    I've already posted the link to this in this thread, but here's a synopsis: 1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance. (MRSA Title 23, 7007. "Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle") If I was a masochist, I'd go searching the Revisor of Statutes site to see what the law says about where one may or may not cross a track, but I think I've elevated my blood pressure enough for one day.
    So in spite of that, in spite of the "NO TRESPASSING" signs stenciled on the masts of the crossing signals that they just walked past, I wish I had a dollar for everyone who said to me, "Oh, I didn't know it was against the law for me to walk on the tracks." And some of those people had to peel off their headphones so they could hear what I was telling them. I had to throw a chunk of ballast where they'd see it fall before they caught on that I was catching up to them.
    I would think a cacher on foot would hear even a very quiet train at a reasonable distance to get out of the way.
    I'm sure that's what the people involved in the fatality in Warren a few weeks ago thought, too. The fisherman in Belgrade who was killed a couple of years ago probably also had similar misconceptions about the danger and the legality of going onto railroad property at "other than a place designated for that purpose."
    So my interpretation would be, regardless of what you can or can't hear (Five Man Electrical Band mode), "you ain't supposed to beee heeeeere."

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrainHunter
    Um, yeah, it was meant as an illustration of something that many people would say they didn't know (in spite of having passed a licensing exam), or that people just tend to ignore. All those who wish to disregard that part of my post may do so.
    I've already posted the link to this in this thread, but here's a synopsis: 1. Walking or standing on track or bridge. A person may not, without right, stand or walk on a railroad track or railroad bridge or pass over a railroad bridge except by railroad conveyance. (MRSA Title 23, §7007. "Penalty for being on track or bridge or entering track with team or vehicle") If I was a masochist, I'd go searching the Revisor of Statutes site to see what the law says about where one may or may not cross a track, but I think I've elevated my blood pressure enough for one day.
    So in spite of that, in spite of the "NO TRESPASSING" signs stenciled on the masts of the crossing signals that they just walked past, I wish I had a dollar for everyone who said to me, "Oh, I didn't know it was against the law for me to walk on the tracks." And some of those people had to peel off their headphones so they could hear what I was telling them. I had to throw a chunk of ballast where they'd see it fall before they caught on that I was catching up to them.
    I'm sure that's what the people involved in the fatality in Warren a few weeks ago thought, too. The fisherman in Belgrade who was killed a couple of years ago probably also had similar misconceptions about the danger and the legality of going onto railroad property at "other than a place designated for that purpose."
    So my interpretation would be, regardless of what you can or can't hear (Five Man Electrical Band mode), "you ain't supposed to beee heeeeere."

    Calm down! You missed the point of my post. Without you going into a tirade, there is law and therefore placing caches on or near railroad property is a criminal infraction. That is the one thing to take away from this thread. Like Tat stated, we all want to keep within the "spirit of the law" to protect cachers and non-cachers alike. And also keeping with Tats post I want to thank you for clarifying these issues.

    You want to talk about stupid actions resulting in morbidity or mortality, feel free to stop into the fire station in Augusta, sit down have a coffee and I'll share over 16 years of my personal experiences on the rescue and fireground.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by firefighterjake
    This was mentioned already by WhereRWe in an earlier post . . . the railroad "line" was not in use last year and in previous years ran sporadically as it was a tourist train. This year a non-profit group of railroad buffs are hoping to get it up and running again as a tourist train. As a result (as I've mentioned earlier) I'll be moving one of my caches just a few feet so folks won't have to cross the tracks since I suspect there won't be many runs (but all it takes is one person to trip and fall on that one time when the train is barreling down the track at a blistering 6 mph ).
    Actually, all of yours I've seen so far didn't look to be in "bad spots," but the one I was concerned about specifically mentions crossing a trestle. I contacted the cacher, and they replied this morning that they'd be taking it down before June. Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common."
    And 6 MPH or 60 MPH, train speed isn't mentioned in 23MRSA7007. ("Kids, don't try that argument in court." )

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trezurs*-R-*Fun
    Calm down! You missed the point of my post. Without you going into a tyraid, there is law and therefore placing caches on or near railroad property is a criminal infraction. That is the one thing to take away from this thread. Like Tat stated, we all want to keep within the "spirit of the law" to protect cachers and non-cachers alike. And also keeping with Tats post I want to thank you for clarifying these issues.
    My apologies if I was getting pedantic about this. I just get cranky if I think someone's starting to try the "oh, but I can always hear the train coming and sprint seventy feet to get myself off the bridge before I get run over" argument or something similar.
    In the spirit of the "measure twice, cut once" rule, I'll try to "read twice, post once" so I don't leap on somebody who's actually agreeing with me. (That's one thing about the 'Net: too much of the "now what did he or she mean by that?" )

    You want to talk about stupid actions resulting in morbidity or mortality, feel free to stop into the fire station in Augusta, sit down have a coffee and I'll share over 16 years of my personal experiences on the rescue and fireground.
    The fire station? Y'mean they closed up all but one? What were those councilors thinkin'?
    And I can top that: I first went into EMS around 1969, so long ago everyone probably thought EMS meant "electromagnetic stuff" or something. I haven't been active in the fire service for several years now, but it probably wouldn't surprise you to know I was an NFA Health & Safety Officer and Incident Safety Officer. To guys like me, everything looks like a hazard!

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrainHunter
    Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common."
    Actually, at the time that cache was placed, the track was INACTIVE. There are MANY tracks in Maine that have not been used in years. The caution urged by the cache owner was the same as would be posted for any bridge - snomobile, walking, etc. I'd be concerned about taking kids across the Wire Bridge in New Portland, and I'd caution anyone crossing that.

    (Note: subject cache was was disabled today)

    Relax. Maine cachers aren't stupid. Well, most of us aren't...

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrainHunter
    Actually, all of yours I've seen so far didn't look to be in "bad spots," but the one I was concerned about specifically mentions crossing a trestle. I contacted the cacher, and they replied this morning that they'd be taking it down before June. Frankly, if you have to include warnings like "use caution when crossing trestle," "don't take small children across trestle," or "use extreme caution after dark," it's a sign that common sense is no longer "common."
    And 6 MPH or 60 MPH, train speed isn't mentioned in 23MRSA7007. ("Kids, don't try that argument in court." )
    Not to quibble . . . but one of my caches is a multi that leads the cachers to a site near the RR tracks. Not a problem when the train wasn't running, but more of a problem now with the train starting back up this June. Better safe than sorry.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but the realization that there is something more important than fear."

    "Death is only one of many ways to die."

  8. #28
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    I have disabled Rubic's revenge for now till we can either figure out new parking coords or confirm if it is or is not legal to cross the RR tracks to get to the area where the cache is.
    If anyone has any ideas on this any help would be greatly appreciated.

    RobT

  9. #29

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    Does anybody know if the tracks near Sebago Lake that cross 114 by Cole Hill Rd are completely abandoned?
    "When I get back I'm bringing a weedwacker and a stun gun!"


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhereRWe?
    Actually, at the time that cache was placed, the track was INACTIVE. There are MANY tracks in Maine that have not been used in years.
    True, and if they're abandoned, that's a different story. But abandoned and inactive are not the same. The Rockland Branch was "inactive" from the time of the last Maine Central train until the Maine Coast started running it again. Some people were surprised to find that trains were once again using the track, and some were surprised years later when train speeds increased following the installation of CWR and other improvements. There's always that 10% that "doesn't get 'the word'."
    The next time you're stuck in traffic, waiting to get past a fender-bender, notice the surprised looks on the faces of the drivers. What is the one thing that all of those people have in common? None of them thought that it was going to happen to them on that day.

    The caution urged by the cache owner was the same as would be posted for any bridge - snomobile, walking, etc.
    Except that those structures aren't covered by a state law that says you're not supposed to be out there.

    Relax. Maine cachers aren't stupid. Well, most of us aren't...
    I don't think I implied that anywhere in my posts. "Stupid" people wouldn't be able to do all that cool stuff that's involved in geocaching. I'm just trying to help make sure you're all alive and well and able to enjoy it.

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