The past - FTF a Thon and Bangor
I have read what has been said by We3Beans and Smitty on the site and while I have already responded here quite some time ago I thought maybe one last attemt might help clear a few things up, maybe not, but I thought I might try.
Driving to the cache. We were wireless and when we first saw the cache listing we just grabbed the coordinates and were off in the spirit of the FTF a Thon. I think others were doing much the same sort of thing.
I was not in the vehicle when this occured. We pulled up to the cache road and I got out and walked down the road to the cache sight. Why John drove down a little later I do not know, but I do know I had nothing to do with it. TRF was there and knew that it happened and John did apologize on the spot. John was very careful when leaving and did not tear anything up. Actually, the damage that was there was from 4 wheelers from previous days when the temps were warm enough for the ground to thaw a bit. The ground was frozen when we were there. This is not an excuse, just the way it happened. Also, this was not the only driving where you are not supposed to incident that happened that day. We don't hear anymore about the other ones that happened.
As for the Bangor thing, there are attributes attached to the caches there that are not supported by the properties where the caches are placed. I do not remember exactly how many caches there were, but in each and every case we looked carefully for posted restrictions in hours that supported the suggestions in the cache attributes. There were no restrictions on any of the caches but one and intrestingly enough the boat lauch had restricted hours (daylight to dark) and the cache listing had none. We did the boat launch cache at daylight and headed for home.
I know it may be difficult, but do cache hiders have the right to limit access in listings to places where the landowners (public) have placed no restrictions? I personally do not think cache hiders have that perogative unless the landowner or land manager has requested it. I do not believe any such posted restrictions were in place for any of the cache locations we did.
The cache hider in this instance and myself have talked this through and I think he understands were I am coming from, at least it appears to be that from our emails and I do understand where he is coming from.
As for the incessant ranting on the websight by a handfull about the "unnamed" cachers, I can only suggest that it is not doing anyone any good to keep harping on the past. I have moved on and have believe it or not changed some of my positions on some of the issues.
I do not think the real issue is what happened so much as it is that we came up and found all those caches. Maybe I am wrong, but that is what it looks like to me.
Do I expect you or anyone else to change your mind? Not really, but there are two or more sides to every story. The truth usually is somewhere in the midst, sometimes you have to look for it.
If We3Beans or Smitty or anyone else wants to meet and work this out I am perfectly willing to do just that, just let me know and I'll be there. I'll even buy the coffee.
Would I do what I did again? Probably not, but at the same time this occured at a time when tensions were very high. There was a lot being said back and forth by a lot of people. If I chose to do so I could share some of the hateful emails I have received from folks that are chock full of errors and misconceptions. They heard this and they heard that. Much of it is not correct.
As it relates to this post and the information set forth I am willing to work it out and do my part to put this to rest where it belongs.
You, I, John and Stephan have certainly had out share of emails back and fourth. We put that behind us and I fear that this will never go away. As much as we would all like to move on I think that many folks happen to want a certain amount of drama and are not complete with out. This I am sure will become folklore told to there children and grand children.
I to hope this goes away some. I know a website where this S**T doesnt keep getting brought up. I may join you there.
I too just want it to go away Dave. I think if we could all go back and do some things differently we would probably have a much different picture we would be dealing with.
What I would really like to see is the two groups working together and maybe just maybe morphing into something that neither one is currently that would be bigger and better than anything we currently have or even at this point could dream about.
I am game for just about anything that would be better than what we have at this point.
It was good meeting you the other day. I certainly enjoyed it. Why we were even friendly were we not? Amazing isn't it?
Somewhere over the rainbow - - -
Dick and Dave I agree with you both and what I would really like to see is the two groups working together and becoming one group instead of two divisions. But that is not up to me to decide.
Maybe it is something that can be discussed at some point in time. Now may not be best, but maybe sometime.
I do know one thing, we all want the same things. We all want Caching in Maine to be the best it can be. Here's to a better future!
There is an ancient saying by the Chinese people:
"If you wait by the side of the river long enough, eventually you will see the bodies of your enemies floating by..."
Well, I waited at the side of the river for about a day and a half and now I'm COMPLETELY BORED out of my freaking skull. Think I'm gonna walk up river and see if anyone might want to go caching... I may even stop off at the rice patties and (heh) buy some BEER. Who's in with 'forgive and forget' rather than watching your life go by in the reflection of a river?
Maybe exactly what we need is to discuss this merge idea NOW rather than later. I would rather fail at it than not try.
I think you have to accept what is in the description. Perhaps there are restrictions, and any signs are missing, or hidden by vegetation. I know I have missed signs at times. Perhaps they just want to protect the area they are showing you, or they know the area might not be safe at night. Some people tell you to take a certian trail and not to bushwhack, yet there are no signs to tell you to stay on the markled trail. Many cache descriptions tell you to do things a certian way. While it often cannot be enforced, I think the safest way to go to protect caching in Maine, is to follow these rules even if we think they are not made by the landowner. Do the 101 Dalamation distibutors have the right to limit placement to Southern Maine, when gc.com allows caches all over the world? I say, the cacher owner gets to make the rules as long as they are within gc.com standards, or whatever caching site they are listed on.
Originally Posted by Gob-ler
I didn't even know the whole story other than someone went where they shouldn't have. I didn't even care who. It's just unfortunate that it happened.
Originally Posted by Gob-ler
This is one reason I get uneasy whenever these types of things pop up. I didn't care to have anything to do with the FTF a Thon. Everyone is in a hurry, and intuition and common sense get thrown aside, and things like this happen. Even with the Delorme Challenge, I knew people would be taking caches with them to hide in grids in case no one else did. Fortunately, that worked out ok, all caches placed appear to be appropriate hides. And while we are on the subject, the same goes with the Dalamation series. Despite the cache description asking them to be original in their hides, a percentange of them are nothing of the sort, which lowers people's opinion of the entire series. And I also fear for the upcoming Geo Rally, which invites people once again to race all over the state, doing whatever they can to grab numbers in a hurry.
Now, these things happen with everyday caching as well. But, landowners and/or cache owners who see large numbers of cachers jumping onto their property in a short amount of time are apt to have shorter tempers, and cachers who are in a hurry to be #1 will have shorter tempers as well.
All I get by this quote is you have been waiting by the river for geocachingmaine.org to float downstream, dead?
Originally Posted by GeoMaine
It would be nice to forget the past, but any actions we make in our lives we have to live by, or prove we have changed.
How can we even consider any kind of merge when things were said and done which were in bad taste, both as individuals and as the MGA? What has or will be done to regain trust? Perhaps I will post my original questions to the MGA site to see if they get answered honestly...
Everyone needs to just log out and go for a hike (GCing or not)
I don't know the history of this argument, but it appears, across several topics, to very much affect people's feelings.
I have a point I'd like to make, which you may of course all ignore, but I hope perhaps an unbiased outsider can help:
If the politics of the organizations bother you that much - Just use them as a resource to get coordinates and don't participate in the forums. I personally did that for years just because I generally don't read forums on hobbist sites except to search for specific information I may need.
Most people here seem basically nice. We all have slightly different ideas and motivations regarding Caching, but essentially we all do the same thing. It seems pointless to argue over the finer points of the rules - Doing so means you've already decided one way or the other, and only want to justify your stance - Not a problem! Do what makes you happy, and doesn't ruin the hobby for others.
For example, I've mentioned here before that I don't agree fully with the can't-count-it-if-you-don't-log-in rule. That means some people might choose not to accept a few percent of my finds. But y'know - I don't cache to make a number go up, I do it for the joy of finding new places to hike.
If you let the rules-laywers or a few ultra-competitive individuals ruin your fun, you've missed the point entirely.
All valid points except for a couple of things. If you don't talk them out and understand one another then it just stews and gets worse. These post are an attempt to work through questions and concerns and as long as everybody does it civilly then there is nothing wrong with it. If someone doesn't want to take part in the thread or has nothing to offer then that is their perogative. Letting people work out their differences is what is called diplomacy. Asking questions and trying to understand will lead to stronger friendships and respect in the end. The irony though is that we may never agree but we can say we tried and will at least have heard both sides.
Originally Posted by ribnag
In the euphoric world we would all share the same opinions, Oreos would grow on tree and taxes wouldn't be a word. In the realistic world, we all have different ideas but must find ways to accept one another. Sometimes it happens sometimes it doesn't.