What makes an irresponsible cacher / cache hider?

[brdad]

I'm starting this thread in an attempt to help steer another thread back onto the topic of cache permissions. One of my beliefs is that when a cacher is in a hurry to hunt or hide a cache, there is an increase in the probability of that person knowingly or unknowingly trespassing, tearing apart locations, or making other mistakes or errors in judgment which can impact Geocaching. Feel free to use this thread to reflect on that claim or to display others ways we as cache finders or hiders can be irresponsible and perhaps what can be done to minimize the risk.

These are some examples listed in the other thread:

For those who haven't seen it.....on August 29th it was published. "The New Hampshire Bureau of Trails said 12,000 acres of forest in the Ossipee Mountains region have been closed to the public due to irresponsible trail users."

We've all seen many times where caches have been placed in sensitive areas, and the FTF cachers trample the whole area to find it. It doesn't help when someone's new to the game and doesn't have good equipment or understand proper and wise placement. Then it doesn't take long before the geo-trail is ground in to stay for a long time after it's abandoned. Such geo-trails are off-trail and against most trail use policies.

Guess this story is a Huge reminder to us all to keep an eye out, and act ethically in our caching. The placement of a cache might be questionable....that doesn't mean we have to support that wrong. Most of us are great about helping to right the wrong.

Learn to cache.... Love to cache...... Help others to learn.... Help others to Love it

We went to Eustis last year to do some of the new caches put out along with the old.
At one GRC 2 car loads of cachers from Canada, down for the event showed up at the cache we were doing . We were signing the log in the car. We told them we had it and one of them came to the truck to get it. We left and went to the next one , before we finished signing it, They showed up right behind us again. We gave them the cache and went to the next, MOOSELOOK. A full size cache a little in the woods. We walked in around the sand piles and headed up the "trail" area.
Yup, They they were pulling in and Ran from the cars up and over and around and the group went running by us through the woods. They were still looking for it when we got to GZ and within seconds Bubba said , found it. Just as he reached for it , one of the group stepped infront of him to reach for the cache. Bubba stepped on the cache and said, I found it , I'll go through it first. Bubba is the calm one. I would have shoved him on his a_ _.
We signed the log and gave them the cache and turned to go back to the truck, Within seconds 3 of the Canada group Charged passed us racing each other back to their vehicles. Some may have noticed the trampled areas around there at that time.
They really made caching there that day unenjoyable , so we left.

And before anyone gets their Granny Panties in a giant wadd......

They WERE from Canada and I don't know their names or I wouldn't have used the term Canadian Cachers, AND , I am not acusing Any Canadian Cachers of Anything. I'm just referencing to the " Rush and Trample" approach we saw that day. I have never seen it before or again.!!

Opalsns

At a fishing spot in Boothbay....I sat on the rocks well away from GZ to protect integrity should someone come along. Sure enough....an out of State car pulled up and one of us gave the muggle alert in time before a couple jumped out. The guy looking at his brand new 60csx walked right over to where it was.....then yelled....it's missing. I was appalled and almost didn't speak up. I said "you looking for this"!? He came over and signed the log. Then went into talking about 356 finds on his 90th day of caching. Then went into bragging about stealth and showed us his tools of the game. I about laughed in his face... though remained polite. I gave him some friendly and subtle reminders before he tore off down the road, after stating his Goal before the sun went down in an hour. He didn't care about the caches.......only the numbers. I was glad I spoke up about how much we Mainers love our caches, and our ethical/careful practices on All caches, not just the micro/nanos in the city. Reminders can be a wonderful thing......... though delivery often makes the difference of how well it's received, if at all.

[Ekidokai]

Stealth is sorely lacking in many hunters that I've seen.

[brdad]

Stealth is sorely lacking in many hunters that I've seen.

That is actually a great angle on the subject. In the beginning, I would do anything not to be noticed. I would refrain from doing a cache or otherwise hide or disguise myself so I would not be noticed. Now, especially with urban caches I tend to just look for it so I hopefully appear less like I am doing something illegal and more like I am supposed to be there, and if I am approached by a store owner or other authority I will speak up as if what I am doing is legal and face the consequences but feel good knowing I was truthful. If there are people nearby I feel might plunder the cache, I might refrain from doing it, but if I feel they might like caching I am more likely to speak right up.

[pm28570]

In general, I will attempt to be as low key or stealthy as possible. Not so much to be not noticed, but so that the cache does not get muggled.

That is actually a great angle on the subject. In the beginning, I would do anything not to be noticed. I would refrain from doing a cache or otherwise hide or disguise myself so I would not be noticed. Now, especially with urban caches I tend to just look for it so I hopefully appear less like I am doing something illegal and more like I am supposed to be there, and if I am approached by a store owner or other authority I will speak up as if what I am doing is legal and face the consequences but feel good knowing I was truthful. If there are people nearby I feel might plunder the cache, I might refrain from doing it, but if I feel they might like caching I am more likely to speak right up.

[hollora]

"Rush and Trample", as described by Opalsns, is quite commonly seen at Mega Events or this has been my observation. I agree, I hate this - and to me it is even rude.

I won't let it ruin my caching or my time - just hang back and they will be long on down the road, but, it does make for a bit of a not so satisfying caching time while they are near. This is a game and everyone plays it their own way. I am sure if we were to go beyond the borders of North America we would find that folks on other Contenients cache differently too.

When a hide has been done which is hard, sneaky, done to devise and fool.......the cache hider needs to consider where the inexperience cacher or even a more experienced one would look. Also, the hint may make a huge difference. Don't, IMHO, make a cryptic hint, which in itself is a puzzle to solve and then wonder why folks can't find the cache, walk all over the moss, break down the branches wandering, tear up the moss poking their hands in places they shouldn't be....and.....well, you get the picture.

The CO shouldn't blame the hunter who is looking high, poking low, walking around, moving sticks, branches and rolling over logs when they just can't find it. Not if in their cache description, coords and hints enough tools haven't been provided for the average cacher. I have even redesigned cache pages based upon folks feedback to me.

I like it when I know - what the container is I am looking for and there is a non-cryptic reasonable hint if I can't find it. If your coords are good - that is all I should need. Well, that and good reception with my GPSr.

I do appreciate parking coords, if necessary, and if the route to the area if it is a bit sketchy - it's nice if you provide some guidance. I like knowing you placed it with permission and do appreciate you posting the information and I do use the cache attributes you post. ie - I used the snowflake icon in the winter to rule out what I may or may not hunt for.

Thank you BRDad for starting this tread - and I was ok with what happened to the "permission one" I started......but it's better to have a couple of threads for the different topics, I think, anyway.

Have a safe Labor Day weekend Everyone! Heads up and be safe out there!

[squirrelcache]

My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photo...-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow.

[hollora]

My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photo...-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow.

;-) and no gun steel black - just dusty, desert sand yellow and brown! Not sure which is the most depressing.

Cache on - cache happy!

[Haffy]

My team has decided to adopt a new philosophy and tactics in assisting other cachers w/breaking their bad habits. It's an ethical reprogramming system that uses paintball. You'll notice the team member to the right has a Garmin GPS mounted on his tool. The team is trained for day and night missions. http://www.af.mil/shared/media/photo...-5495S-189.jpg

For their own personal responsibility while caching...the teams currently being fitted w/custom made Ghillie suits, and pics will follow.

Hey is that the team you've got entered in the geo rally?

[squirrelcache]

I'm not at liberty to discuss my Team's Geo-Rallye strategy If the new suits come in...things will be so stealthy that no one will be any the wiser. Can't defend against what you can't see

[brdad]

Yesterday I was chatting with the guy who broke the record for caches in a day - 413 of them. I asked him how many he remembered - he replied "two". And while remembering only two has nothing at all to do with with being irresponsible, it made me feel good that my caches pretty much force a person to remember them in some capacity - there is no way you can just do any of them so quickly that two days later you can't recall it.

So perhaps in my mind it's better for a cache hider to hide a memory than it is a number. But, it's also much less likely someone could find 413 memorable caches in one day. Heck, I can't remember what I had for lunch yesterday.

As far as I know, that day went without a hitch, probably as a result of responsible caching. But I have heard other stories that are quite the contrary and more like the ones I quoted in my first post.