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Thread: Newbie question

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by cano View Post
    Another case of not getting the proper permission to hide a cache.
    Just smile it won't crack your face

    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is
    suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best
    friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

  2. #12
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    And not being Stealthful
    I have no enemies, but I'm intensely disliked by my friends.

  3. #13
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    The comment about the pipleine is correct. The properties around pipelines and power lines are not usually owned by those companies but leased from the landowner(s).

    Regardless of anyone's opinion on stealth, it should never pertain to landowners - meaning a cache hunter should never be put in a position where he has to hide his activity from the person, company, or other entity who owns the land.
    Last edited by brdad; 10-07-2009 at 01:41 PM.
    DNFTT! DNFTT! DNFTT!

    "The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it..."

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by lexmano View Post
    The best way to be invisible in urban areas is to put on a hard hat, yellow vest and hold a clip board.

    No one will pay any attention to you then! I have heard that the above items are standard on equipment for urban cachers in Florida.
    Or wear a firefighter uniforrm and carry a clipboard . . . and if anyone asks you say you're doing a fire safety inspection.
    "Courage is not the absence of fear, but the realization that there is something more important than fear."

    "Death is only one of many ways to die."

  5. #15
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    So. China Maine
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    Default Pipelines

    I've done legal work involving the hundreds of miles of pipelines in Maine.

    Yes, in most cases the pipelines are leased, but...the landowners give the pipeline companies all the control of use and access to the leased property. It's the same scenario as any other landlord/tenant situation. The landlord-owner of an apartment house cannot come into the tenants property without the tenants permission except in emergency situations. The Landlord-owner almost always has contractually given up the right to control who comes on the leased property.

    So, without getting to the permission part of the equation, the owner of the leased land has no right whatsover to tell anybody on the leased property to get off or assert a trespass violation on behalf of the tenant, in this case the pipeline company.

    So if the pipeline company allows public access, expressly or otherwise, then then the owner cant' stop it anymore then a landlord could tell a tenant who or who can't come to the tenants apartment.

    Most pipeline companies do NOT restrict public access. Hunting is normally allowed unless the land is posted and it usually is not. The pipelines owners don't allow ATV use due to potential damage to junction boxes and other above ground fixtures, but most other use is not restricted.

    So, before you all jump on the "another cache placed without permission bandwagon" I urge a little restraint in both your criticism and negative attitudes towards a geocacher who has always done a lot of good things for the caching community,, like the 2 or 3 CITO events she's sponsored for many years, one this weekend if you're so inclined. And don't forget the hundred or so caches she and her friends have placed all around Lewiston/Auburn.

    While I think she was right to archive the cache due to the fact that trying to win one of these arguments with a landowner is never a good idea for our sport, I personally and professionally conclude she did no wrong other than to place a cache in an place where an over zealous person lives.
    Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason.

  6. #16
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    ME
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    Dubord brings up a good point - and this has happened in other areas too. By "this", I mean abutting property owners are upset by the use of the property and do or say things which sort of force a cache owner to feel they must move or archive their cache.

    I agree, Dubord, the cacher who placed this probably did so with the feeling the pipeline or powerline (whichever it may be) was open for folks to walk on (and ultimately find a cache). It was done, I am sure, not knowing there was a neighbor who would become upset.

    In the area I live, there was one where folks parking in the wrong area, inadvertantly walked across the corner of some private property - a tiny portion of a lot, forcing a big mess and the cache to be archived when these neighbors to the powerline became all upset.

    In the case of the cache I adopted........the cache was accessed from a Power Line but clearly was well beyond any right of way and placed on private property. There had been a snowmobile trail which ran off the cut - and the orginal cacher walked the trail off the line and just plunked down a cache. After we worked out the details of the land owners concerns, it did last for a while - until there was cutting on the private land.

    There are many circumstances to all situations. Dubord has brought to us some general knowledge about the pipelines and powerlines. I concur, the cacher who paced the cache in question has done a lot and certainly did this with no malice and nothing but good intentions and beliefs. Regretfully in this cache situation a neighbor is not happy.

    Dan - thank you for pointing these facts out and sharing with us.

  7. #17
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    Maybe pipelines are different but all I know is I have been told by both CMP and Bangor Hydro that the land some of their lines are on are controlled by the landowner, not them - though they did have some say in the matter to protect their lines. Perhaps there's just an easement or some other arrangement - The only thing I am getting at is we should not assume we know who is control of the land or assume they are ok with a cache being placed there.
    Last edited by brdad; 10-09-2009 at 07:14 AM.
    DNFTT! DNFTT! DNFTT!

    "The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it..."

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubord207 View Post
    So, before you all jump on the "another cache placed without permission bandwagon" I urge a little restraint in both your criticism and negative attitudes towards a geocacher who has always done a lot of good things for the caching community,, like the 2 or 3 CITO events she's sponsored for many years, one this weekend if you're so inclined. And don't forget the hundred or so caches she and her friends have placed all around Lewiston/Auburn.

    While I think she was right to archive the cache due to the fact that trying to win one of these arguments with a landowner is never a good idea for our sport, I personally and professionally conclude she did no wrong other than to place a cache in an place where an over zealous person lives.
    No one is disputing this fact Dan. I just think that we as concientious caches should always take the high road and try to get permission on the placement of ANY cache no matter where it is hidden unless of course it is on YOUR land. There are just too many uninformed people placing caches that are questionable as to the owner of such land and it is always on the side of restaint that I think we all ought to think about. Geocaching has come a long way over the years and it is getting harder and harder to hide caches because of irresponsible people. Look at how many caches have been destroyed by the "bomb squads" lately just to name a specific incident. The person in your thinking might have been "over zealous" as you state but put that uninformed person in your shoes. JMHO
    Just smile it won't crack your face

    The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four persons is
    suffering from some sort of mental illness. Think of your three best
    friends -- if they're okay, then it's you.

  9. #19
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    Jul 2006
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    New Gloucester, Me
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    Quote Originally Posted by dubord207 View Post
    I've done legal work involving the hundreds of miles of pipelines in Maine.

    Yes, in most cases the pipelines are leased, but...the landowners give the pipeline companies all the control of use and access to the leased property.

    I just want to point out the "most cases" part. I am not looking at this pointing out, or pointing at any cacher, this is just information.
    We have a pipeline that runs across our propery. we get no money or benifit of any kind from this pipeline. We are required to allow access to the pipeline company 24/7/365, we also have to allow them the right to maintain the pipeline (which means they can cut a 50 foot path for a 12 inch pipe.)
    The pipe was there when we bought the land so we had no say in it. According to the previous land owner neither did they when the pipe went in.
    All in all we don't mind anyone using the land but some people abuse it. They run their trucks up it likes its the mud run at the fair and cause a lot of mess. It's this kind of behavior that ruins it for folks who want to hike, ride horses, geocache etc.
    In our case, because I pay the taxes on the land I think I should be able to say who does and who doesn't use it. I don't look at the pipeline as a tenants because I get nothing from them, I see them more as squatters.

  10. #20
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    Apr 2008
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    Albion, Maine
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    Unhappy Must have missed something here.

    Someone places a cache on land where it is generally accepted that the public can use it by the "authority in charge" of said property, along comes someone who THINKS they should have control of it, they start complaining and whining so the cache owner removes the cache in the interest of "why fight this battle?" and this thread degrades to where it is basically stated we have ignorant cachers placing caches. WOW!!! Seems to me, that in this case, the cache placer handled this with much jurisprudence to the sport of geocaching.

    I bet there could be an argument made that geocachers don't have permission for GRC's along side major routes as that area is designated as an emergency lane and geocaching rarely constitutes an emergency. Does Wal-Mart give permission for the lightpost caches? Has the FAA or NTSB cleared a crash sites for cache placement? Does the permission one obtain 1 year ago last indefinately? I guess my point here is there seems to be argument for the sake of argument. Be nice if something actually constructive came from this thread.
    There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle.~~Albert Einstein
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    Many wise words are spoken in jest, but they don't compare with the number of stupid words spoken in earnest. - Sam Levenson (1911 - 1980)

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