Legality and Guidelines vs. what is good for the sport

[pm28570]

I politely suggested to CO of GC23KH7 that based on the landowner's reaction and the prior posts that he consider archiving the cache. His response "Cache was placed within the Guidelines." I doubt it but making a "Needs Archiving" post is not something that will put you on the Christmas list of the CO. But with an upset landowner and clearly a poorly placed cache, should I recommend the Archiving of the cache? Curious what others might do.

Interesting question that you pose. In that we are generally a self-policing activity, it has to entail a degree of responsibility on our collective parts. And often, being responsible means ticking people off. To address your question "Do I recommend archiving?", I think you just did. To log it as such, I would like to think that an experienced and responsible cache placer would understand the issues surrounding the placement. A lesser experienced placer hopefully would heed the experienced.

My view has been that when I seek a cache that turns out to be either too close to private property or there is not a clear delineation of where private ends and public starts, I pass on the cache.

While I can't comment on the cache that your discussing in that I have not been to it, common sense goes a long way.

[brdad]

I politely suggested to CO of GC23KH7 that based on the landowner's reaction and the prior posts that he consider archiving the cache. His response "Cache was placed within the Guidelines." I doubt it but making a "Needs Archiving" post is not something that will put you on the Christmas list of the CO. But with an upset landowner and clearly a poorly placed cache, should I recommend the Archiving of the cache? Curious what others might do.

Hmmm... It seems quite obvious that the CO has made up his mind so any further logs would probably start a battle of the cache logs making cachers look like a bunch of buttheads like some of the logs in other caches, so if it were me I think I would just report it to a volunteer or directly to groundspeak and ask that they take a look at it and make a decision what action to take based on the logs.

This is exactly what this thread is about. I don't know why some people think that the law or guidelines is all that matters. You'd think these caches were so valuable the way some COs try to protect them. They often don't see the connection between how they react to these situations and the future of geocaching.

[WhereRWe?]

Another point to consider: After reading the cache description and doing a quick Google, it's obvious that a lot of the material in the description was lifted verbatim from Wikipedia, without attribution.

[Mapachi]

OK...Here I go!
I have a LOT of cache hides, so I know a little about this. The first time I archived a cache, it was because of an abutting landowner (He did not own the land the cache was on and I had permission for the placement, from the actual landowner.)
It seems a fellow cacher lost a Gun (pistol) at the cache site. He questioned who he thought was the landowner, if anyone had found his gun! This upset the guy and he asked for the cache to be removed because of the danger it posed! He couldn't be reasoned with, so I begrudgingly did so. I fumed over it for a while....especially a year later when some other cacher place a cache there!
As time has gone by I find myself less attached to my caches. I will archive them as needed now and just find another place to put the cache or just forget about it. I was treating my caches like they were my children!
Again, I reiterate....This is just a game; no more, no less! It's supposed to be fun, not infuriating! Enjoy your geo-buddies, and ignore the geo-jerks.

[benandtina]

Personally, if I visited a cache and found a grumpy land owner I would e-mail the cache owner privately. Based on what I am understanding of this situation, I think the CO didn't necessarily have to archive it but I think doing so is (in my opinion) "the right thing to do" for everyone involved. I think archiving it was good for the sport since if it was left there we could be pretty certain that those landowners would never want to join our caching community and they would have tons of negativity about the sport to pass on to their friends.

I don't really know about the series or understand why the entire thing was archived... I think it's unfortunate that the CO put so much work in to all his caches and then had to get rid of them all. It would have been nice if maybe as a compromise only the cache in question was archived.

[firefighterjake]

Happy to say we didn't have any issues when we did the Mini SMR . . . but some caches did seem pretty close to homes.

My own take on things is that I try to place my caches in areas away from prying eyes . . . or at least away from homes where people might get a bit uneasy with folks driving by all the time and stopping . . . or at least in public places where you might expect to find folks.

That said I do have a few caches out there that are close to homes. In one case I deliberately ask cachers to park at a certain point and walk down a certain path to the cache. In the case of my RFD cache the cache is on my property but within the sight line of the neighbor across the way. In both of these examples I took the time to inform the nearby neighbors of the caches . . . it's the right thing to do . . . cachers can rest easy knowing the neighbors know what is going on and the neighbors know not to get too concerned when they see a car parked in a certain spot . . . plus it gives some of the neighbors some free entertainment.

[benandtina]

I do agree that giving the neighbors a head's up is a nice thing to do - for the neighbor and the cacher. We found a cache that was near private property and the neighboring land owner had no clue. We accidentally went on his property for it. He was outside while we were looking around so I told him what we were doing. When we found out we were on his land I asked for permission to continue and he said we could, but I can't imagine how awkward it would have been if he'd told me to get out! He had no idea about the cache so I told him how to get the cache description and cache owner's contact information, but he seemed more than happy to let us explore his property. In fact, he even told us the best way to climb up some boulders on his land... I'm not entirely sure what would have happened if we had climbed up there and gotten hurt, LOL.

[LaughingTerry]

That said I do have a few caches out there that are close to homes. In one case I deliberately ask cachers to park at a certain point and walk down a certain path to the cache. In the case of my RFD cache the cache is on my property but within the sight line of the neighbor across the way.

SheWolf and I met that neighbor. He came out and told us not to park there. He said it wasn't safe so he had us park in his driveway because he didn't want someone hitting the car sitting on the side of the road. Very nice guy.

[firefighterjake]

SheWolf and I met that neighbor. He came out and told us not to park there. He said it wasn't safe so he had us park in his driveway because he didn't want someone hitting the car sitting on the side of the road. Very nice guy.

No disrespect intended . . . but the parking coords are actually for the entry into the field . . . although I mention the trail is across the road so some folks may read the description and see the trail entrance and think they should park there instead of the entrance to the field.

In any case, hakuna matata . . . no harm, no foul . . . and the neighbors there are pretty decent . . . some are even relatives.

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The first stage of this cache will give you the coords to the second (final) stage. Please park at N 44.35.060, W 069.11.150 when attempting the second stage -- this is an entrance to a field. It is also coincidentally the parking spot for my Win or Lose cache. The walk from this parking spot to the second (final) cache site is approximately a 1/2 mile.

Once you have parked your vehicle cross the tar road and head down the hill towards Thorndike. On your right (almost across from the gravel road and well before you get anywhere near any homes) you should see an opening in the woods which is a snowmobile/ATV trail.

Walk down this trail until you reach N 44.35.232, W 069.11.178 which is an opening in the woods to your right. . . .