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Thread: GeoTrails & GeoTrash

  1. #1
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    Default GeoTrails & GeoTrash

    NativeMainer brought to light an interesting comment in another thread and suggested it be it's own thread....the quote is: If you look past the tirade, FD does make a couple of points, such as the creation of geotrails and geotrash (which should be another topic)....in which the discussion was about a blogger destroying caches and thereby saving the entire world from ourselves. Well, good idea NativeMainer. GeoTrails and GeoTrash. Got any stories? Got any pet peeves? Got any solutions? Got an opinion.....whoa....just answered my own question on that one . Here's mine:

    Recently, a cache was placed in the Bangor-Brewer area that had a higher difficulty rating. And after the oohing and oh-ing went on and on, I went myself and of course didn't find it. It's not unusual for me to not DNF a cache initially....after all....I'm not done looking for it yet. Upon returning a week later to look again, I was amazed and saddened to see the effect that cachers had on the area. GZ is, essentially, the terminus of a parking lot. And, GZ had been really trampled and torn up, vegetation destroyed, tree limbs removed and a fence nearly knocked over. Certainly a property owner considering cache permission that would have seen this would most likely decline. Now, we've all seen geotrails but this went way too far. I've mentioned before and will proffer my opinion yet again: We as cachers and cache placers must be responsible cachers. Often being responsible means angering others; if you can't figure out what responsible is, find a mentor. OR....maybe you shouldn't be caching.
    Last edited by pm28570; 10-13-2010 at 01:16 PM. Reason: grammar correction
    Everyone has the right to be an idiot at times. Just don't abuse the privilege.

  2. #2
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    Default

    I do think some people get overly upset over geo-trails. I'm not convinced that geo-trails are any more harmful than animal trails. And, perhaps the trails benefit some of the woodland creatures by providing access paths or opening the area up a bit for food sources.

    Still, it is best we do our best to minimize any traces, and destruction of a cache area is always unfortunate. There are many times we come across cache locations that we are 99% sure were unreasonably damaged by our fellow cachers.

    Turning over logs in the middle of the woods - probably not so bad in my book, other then leaving evidence we were there. Tearing apart landowner's property like his rock wall or fence - not s good. Just remember, sometimes the landowner considers the log on his property as dead as his rock wall or his fence.
    DNFTT! DNFTT! DNFTT!

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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdad View Post
    I do think some people get overly upset over geo-trails. I'm not convinced that geo-trails are any more harmful than animal trails.
    Thinking of another thread that talks about caches with deliberately incorrect coordinates to "make the find harder"...

    Some of the worst geotrails we've seen lately were where the coordinates were off quite a bit, and a number of cachers had been searching near "ground zero", i.e., rocks turned over, stumps torn apart, ground well tromped on, etc.

  4. #4
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    Default Tread Lightly

    I have only a handful of caches hidden in rock walls and I made them easy and give a very specific hint on each so that rock walls don't get ripped apart. Personally, rock wall caches without hints or with a bunch of rocks that have to removed to find the cache are a bad idea and an invitation to have the wall damaged or destroyed.

    Geo-trails are the reason the ATC doesn't allow caches on the AT. The Stud Mill Road caches are a lot easier to find now that a pile of cachers have gone after them, but that's in the wilderness and the impact is minimal. Any new trail system will actually be improved as it "ages" and the foot traffic better defines the route.

    Caches in trash? Sheesh. There was one in Lewiston hidden in a discarded tire by a bunch of students!!!! Not one to be shy and bearing in the mind thatthe container was ruined I was one of many that suggested archiving and tat eventually gave that one the hook.

    Great thread, Paul and another reminder to play nice on other folks land!
    Sometimes the road less traveled is less traveled for a reason.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhereRWe? View Post
    Thinking of another thread that talks about caches with deliberately incorrect coordinates to "make the find harder"...

    Some of the worst geotrails we've seen lately were where the coordinates were off quite a bit, and a number of cachers had been searching near "ground zero", i.e., rocks turned over, stumps torn apart, ground well tromped on, etc.
    Makes sense, the longer cachers have to search, the more places they get and the more desperate they become. Regarding my animal part of the comment, however, I have seen areas torn up by turkeys, bears, and other critters, too. Funny how we say that is "just natural", as if humans are not part of nature. We do, however, have the power of reason and knowledge to know what's going on a bit more than animals do.
    DNFTT! DNFTT! DNFTT!

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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by brdad View Post
    We do, however, have the power of reason and knowledge to know what's going on a bit more than animals do.
    Sheesh! You really think so?

  7. #7
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    I know of one hider that buried a cache, listed hints that made no sense, then posted that he did not want the area torn up.

    If you leave bad coordinates purposely or not, the area will get trampled and things will get disturbed. No matter how careful a person is.

    If you make a cache really hard to find, again the area will get disturbed. There just is no way around it that I can see.

    Now I know that some people are a lot more careful than others, but if the coordinates are off, the hints don't work, the hide is really hard, or buried, things will get disturbed.

    I, for one find that on the hard to find ones, I'll come out of the area with much more trash than on a quick find.

    There is no reason to unnecessarily tear up vegetation, break branches and the such, but when you find a cache in a log, under a log, under or in a rock, drilled into the end of a branch, disguised to look like the end of a branch. Then the hard ones without good hints will get the area disturbed.
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  8. #8
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    one of our caches is in a "sensitive " nature area and so we placed our caches in areas that were not going to be effected by any possible geotrail...we also stated in the cache discription that cachers should stay on the trail ...although we cannot guarrentee all will do that we did ask that they did and so far everyone who had gone and done them has played by the rules....MOST cacher will respect any specific guidelines the cache hider puts in front of them...there are always exceptions but most will follow the rules of the area if told ahead of time. or at least that has been my experience.
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  9. #9
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    I have one pet peeve regarding hiding caches. A few people will pick an area that is trashy to begin with and then ask the cachers to do some CITO in the area . I say do the CITO in the area before you hide it there and then they can see how nice an area it is afterwards. Don't expect others to do the dirty work for you when you should have done it to begin with.
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  10. #10
    Join Date
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    Default Oh boy, I'm going to sound like an idiot

    While I do have an issue with caches in trash or trashy areas (I once found a cache in Bangor, lodged in a water filled tire teaming with mosquito larva. I called the cache "Dante's 5th level of hell" in the log ) I'm going out on a limb here with geotrails. Don't care. While I 100% agree that we should take all due care with other peoples property and that tearing up a rock wall is the acme of foolishness, leaving trails on the ground happens. How often? I walked the perimeter of the field behind my parents house in Hampden this weekend. I counted 6 deer trails in a 30 foot section. 2 of which were beaten right down to the mud. (and the neighbor has a nice new treestand facing them.) Trails happen, and my guess is that the deer simply don't care. Trails have happened since the beginning of time. We are not in the Tundra, where wagon trails from the 1800's still remain. We are in Maine. My guess is that there is more area paved over for empty big box store parking lots in Bangor than all of the geotrails combined. There has been controversy about ATV trails, snowmobile trails, the Appalachian trail, ect. Me? I'm comfortable with my "footprint". As for trash, nothing drives me up the wall faster than going a few feet off the road, looking down an embankment and finding old TV's, mattresses, ect. While I understand that it's hard for some folks to pay for disposal of heavy waste (My school district is storing old computers on a broken down bus because we don't have disposal fee's in the budget, and it would cost thousands), There has got to be a better way.

    Wow, I had not idea I felt this way until I started typing. Sorry if I came off as "Toolish" (Kidding)
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