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Thread: The Nature Coservancy Infiltration.....ForestDefenders in Flesh and Blood

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  1. #1

    Lightbulb The Nature Coservancy Infiltration.....ForestDefenders in Flesh and Blood

    As many of you probably already know, The Nature Conservancy launched a widespread attack on caches located on property they claim to own.

    The attack was launched by a Premium Geocaching Member named Daniel Grenier (dj_grenier is his Geocaching user name). The attacks have been in the polite form of an e-mail threatening the archiving of certain caches which The Nature Conservancy seems to think they own the land of. Their claims are rather dubious at best, as their own maps seem to be ambiguous at best to their property. The maps that I based the placement of several caches on, clearly determine a corridor through the properties made by the Power Line companies, which are openly and publically used for ATVing, Snowmobiling, and other activities, not to mention Geocaching.

    After an e-mail exchange and a phone call (phone call was never returned) to The Nature Conservancy, and their CCing of emails to MainePublisher, and several highly placed Groundspeak officials, I decided to take the high road and self-Archive the two caches that TNC targeted of mine. However MainePublisher has already begun his list of archives based upon the TNC. I wish to avoid any issues with Groundspeak, and frankly, not give them, MainePublisher, or TNC the satisfaction of archiving my caches.

    I'd like to see a good discussion on this issue, and offer if any of you are interested, copies of the emails exchanged with TNC and myself.

    Begin!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Solon, Maine
    Posts
    5,940

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    Quote Originally Posted by CARoperPhotography View Post
    As many of you probably already know, The Nature Conservancy launched a widespread attack on caches located on property they claim to own.
    Since these locations appear to be on private property, the obvious question would be: "Did you have permission of the landowner to place these caches"?


  3. #3

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    APPEAR to be on Private Property. Like I said, it is a dubious claim. I was placing caches (placed 18 months ago in these two cases of my caches) on trails used by the public over years and continued to be used by the public for all kinds of activities.

    I take it you are going to take the TNC side on this? Why don't you look at the other caches which were targeted by this?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
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    Solon, Maine
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    5,940

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    Quote Originally Posted by CARoperPhotography View Post
    APPEAR to be on Private Property. Like I said, it is a dubious claim. I was placing caches (placed 18 months ago in these two cases of my caches) on trails used by the public over years and continued to be used by the public for all kinds of activities.

    I take it you are going to take the TNC side on this? Why don't you look at the other caches which were targeted by this?
    No, I'm not taking TNC's side. But if you don;t own the property, and it isn't "public access" (state, federal, paper company, etc...) it is owned by someone, and any reasonable cacher would try and determine the owner and get permission prior to placing a cache there.

  5. #5

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    Anyone can CLAIM that certain properties are their own. And Groundspeak and the Reviewers take their claims as solid, before consulting with actual cachers.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Niskayuna, NY
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    602

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    I would be very surprised if the electric utility company did not own the land under their high voltage transmission lines. Granted, some are easements but I believe most are owned. You will need to check the property records and tax maps.




    A house is not a home without a cat.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabby View Post
    I would be very surprised if the electric utility company did not own the land under their high voltage transmission lines. Granted, some are easements but I believe most are owned. You will need to check the property records and tax maps.
    Exactly. The property maps actually show my caches as on the border of the two land owners. However, the map that TNC sent me to back their claim, is at such a zoomed out scale that you really cannot determine which side the cache is on. I myself know, because I placed the damn caches but the TNC will skew the evidence and what they show Groundspeak and the reviewers. Today Marcipanek and I found a roadside park and grab located on the shoulder of the road in Phippsburg on a town owned road. Well, needless to say, that very cache was archived by Circles (cache owner) due to the TNC attack. There was no way that cache was on TNC property considering the town right of way on either side of the road and shoulder of road.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    China, Maine
    Posts
    241

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    I had a similar situation with a few caches I placed on the power run in my area and after some thought I archived them. There was a property owner in the area that claimed to own any area he found a cacher and was harrassing them. I tried to located the property owner that was doing this to no avail so to avoid any further conflict for my fellow geocachers I archived a few caches in that area. Two of these caches were right next to the road in a tree and one was on a well marked snowmobile trail. It was a the only caches I have had to archive and I was quite unhappy about it but in the long run it was the best decision.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    Bangor, ME
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    I think we take this risk with any cache, and if we do not get permission we really have little reason to argue. If you have permission it could still happen, but at least you have that contact person.

    If you do not have permission prior to placing the cache and you can't prove quickly and without question who owns what I think the best action to take is to remove them. If the cache is near a property line there is always possibility of debate. Heck, even surveyors often come out with different lines a lot. And we have seen groundspeak archive roadside caches because whoever owned the property behind did not want the cache there - and I agree, I would complain about a cache in front of my house, too.

    I'd hate this to happen to any of my caches but I am responsible for them. It'd suck if someone who did not own the land was claiming to own it, groundspeak does not have any authority to make anyone prove they are the landowner. I am not siding with either side, I am siding with what I think is best for the game.
    DNFTT! DNFTT! DNFTT!

    "The funniest thing about this particular signature is that by the time you realize it doesn't say anything it's to late to stop reading it..."

  10. #10

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    Good answer Brdad.

    What do you think of the way the TNC has gone about this though?

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